Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mike306p/Ansoniaman, Jul 5, 2006.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The new version of the Forum is coming! This major upgrade of the Forum will take place in the early hours of November 2 and should be completed by noon. There will be no access to the Forum while the upgrade is taking place.
  1. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker clock?

    Thanks for the additional photo, I've posted it in my identification post above and corrected my commentary to match. This confirms you have the actual case model illustrated in the GB catalog, so it can be reasonably considered to be all original. When you get the dial restored, please post a photo here so we can see it in "as built" condition.
     
  2. Kaappikello

    Kaappikello Registered User

    Dec 30, 2013
    71
    0
    6
    Finland
    Country Flag:
    GB P14 movement without case

    I found this movement without case, it looks very good condition.
    I'am looking cabinet info for this. No serial in backplate only "h 25" mark.
    Attachment it is very similar like my GB marine clock also this movement has main spring only.
    Other vise it looks like my GB marine movement clock but this has pendulum so is not marine clock. Any info for cabinet is wellcome.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: GB P14 movement without case

    Kaappikello, thanks for your inquiry and posting the photos of your GB movement. This movement with open plates has been found to be illustrated only in a 1926 GB sales catalog as model No. Sag.H, the "H" representing "Hohltrieben" which is German for Lantern Pinions. The same movement model but with solid plates is also shown in the 1924, 1928, and 1932 catalogs I have for reference. Even though not illustrated in the later catalogs, it is possible it may have been made later than 1926 but based on what we know about the markings and features, it would not have been made earlier than about mid-1925. Since it is not illustrated in either the 1928 or 1932 catalogs we have for reference, I would provisionally conclude that the open plate configuration was only made between mid-1925 and the end of 1927.

    I can see the "H" stamp on the back plate below the GB anchor logo, but cannot find the number "25" that you mention. It will be appreciated if you could post a photo of that number for us so we can see the exact location. Movements made starting in 1928 may be stamped with a manufacturing date such as "28 10" which would be for October 1928, this marking has been found on the front plate through 1929 and then on the back plate from 1930 to 1932 when the Freiburg factory was closed.

    Regarding the case design that would be appropriate, this movement is shown to have been installed in large square front Kitchen clocks and also in round dial Gallery or Office clocks. Here are scans of both types of clocks from a 1924 GB sale catalog published by our member Victor Tang (www.any400day.com):

    No 178-179-183-184 Wall.jpg No 445-449G-450-455 Gallery.jpg

    All of these case designs are found in catalogs from 1924 to 1932, so it would not be possible to date them except by movement characteristics or sometimes by stampings on the back of the case. The Kitchen Clocks to the left were all about 12 inches square; the round dial Gallery or Office clocks to the right were offered with dial diameters from 6 to 24 inches. Your movement was the standard movement for all these and would fit any of them, so you would have a range of choices if you can find a suitable case.
     
  4. Kaappikello

    Kaappikello Registered User

    Dec 30, 2013
    71
    0
    6
    Finland
    Country Flag:
    Re: GB P14 movement without case

    Hi
    Thanks very much John.
    I start looking office clock cabinet.
    I post picture from front plate, there is n25 or h25.
    I wish good spring to all. This is great site :)
     

    Attached Files:

  5. James Weaver

    James Weaver Registered User

    Jun 18, 2013
    7
    0
    0
    Retired Manufacturing Engineer
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #2205 James Weaver, Apr 6, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
    Re: Gustav Becker clock?

    This was my first post. I'll try again.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. James Weaver

    James Weaver Registered User

    Jun 18, 2013
    7
    0
    0
    Retired Manufacturing Engineer
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    Good morning all.

    I'll try this again. I recently acquired a GB two weight regulator. I need help on several items:

    1. Is the clock correct?
    2. What is the date of manufacture?
    3. What are the proper weights? It came with one that is 2 1/2 lb. and one at 3 lb.

    Did I get a pig in a poke? Or maybe a poke in the eye. I didn't expect to win the auction but, now I have it and must make it right.

    Thanks in advance for all comments.

    DSCN0143.JPG DSCN0144.jpg DSCN0145.jpg DSCN0148.jpg DSCN0149.jpg DSCN0151.jpg DSCN0153.jpg
     
  7. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #2207 John Hubby, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
    Re: GB P14 movement without case

    Kaappikello, thanks for posting the photo detail of the "h 25" stamp on your movement. This is the earliest date stamp I have documented yet for GB Amerikaner style movement, "h" being the letter for August and the date made thus August 1925. That fits perfectly with the dating I had previously mentioned, being that the capital letter "H" on the back plate was for lantern pinions and that stamp was first used about mid-1925 when GB stopped marking their solid pinion Amerikaner movments with the "SILESIA" name stamped below the GB anchor logo.

    GB used letters for the month designation until about the end of 1931, and starting in 1928 these were intermixed with the Junghans style date stamps of "YY MM" in numbers with no letters used. For example September 1929 would be "29 10".

    An office clock cabinet would be quite appropriate for your movement, good luck finding a suitable case.
     
  8. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    22,488
    1,186
    113
    Male
    Ne’er do well
    Here and there
    Country Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    Nice double-weight GB, Jim. I suspect one of our Becker experts will be along soon to comment.
     
  9. Walesey

    Walesey Registered User

    May 24, 2012
    581
    9
    18
    High School Science Laboratory Assistant
    Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker help, please.

    Just checking your serial against John Hubby's list, I think your clock was made in 1902. At 112 years old, I hope I look as good when I am that old!

    Cheers
    Walesey
     
  10. James Weaver

    James Weaver Registered User

    Jun 18, 2013
    7
    0
    0
    Retired Manufacturing Engineer
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker help, please.

    Thanks Walesey,

    I'm hoping that Mr. Hubby can give me information on the other questions . I'm hoping I can run as well when I'm a few years older also.

    From Texas,
    Jim Weaver
     
  11. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    1,198
    27
    48
    Bay Area, California
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    Hi JW,

    Welcome to the board. Beautiful clock you have there! I would agree with Walesey on the date.

    Is the clock correct? It is the correct style case for the movement. Looking at the backboard, there are some extra holes. This often indicates that the case and the movement did not begin their lives together. This happens a LOT! I would guess that most of us who have "Vienna Regulators" have at least one that is a "marriage." The head piece matches the rest of the case pretty well. Is it original, who knows? Many of these style clocks don't have a headpiece at all.

    The weights are in the ballpark. Usually the heavier one is on the strike side. If that has the clock striking to fast for your liking, reverse them. With such a small difference in weight, I don't see how it will cause any harm.

    The dial looks pristine, the movement does need a cleaning but hey we all need a bath every once in a while :excited:

    I would say you have a good quality clock, in a nice case, that you should be proud to own. I know I would be. You didn't mention what you paid and we aren't supposed to talk about values here, (there is another forum for that which you can access either by becoming a member of the assoc. or paying a small subscription fee) but we all have paid more than we wanted to for a clock and are later glad we did because the clock brings us joy, I did that 2 days ago. The big thing is, do YOU like the clock? If so, I would say you, "done good"

    Just my 2,
    Walt
     
  12. James Weaver

    James Weaver Registered User

    Jun 18, 2013
    7
    0
    0
    Retired Manufacturing Engineer
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    Walt,

    Thanks for the information. I will clean it soon and I have to correct the strike arm on the back of the movement (It was soldered in position and the solder is broken). I will have to build a test stand so I can mount the movement and gong where I can get at them.

    I saw in an earlier post that Mr. Hubby suggested a similar clock needed weights that were 1 5/8" Dia. and 4 1/4" in length weighing about 3 1/2 lbs. That would make the weight a little heavier than now and the strike now is a little slow so I'll probably order them from Timesavers (the post had a p/n).

    As for price, I offered half of what one like it sold for at the Chapter 124 regional auction. Because of that bid, I didn't expect to get it. My neighbor (another NAWCC member) has access to a sight (not this one) that records prices paid and he said I should be able double my money. If I ever sell it. All in all, a good deal.

    I've been messing around with the clocks for a little over a year and so far have 14 from various makers and all are running accurately. By far, this GB was the most expensive one. I have three more coming, a DUFA wall clock and two Seth Thomas mantel clocks. So far, the Seth Thomas ones are my favorites. I purchased a Sonora Chime at the regional meet that was in pretty sad shape (must have been stored in a barn, but that lowered the price to my budget). I've restored the Adamantine about as well as can be and it is now in the den making beautiful music..

    These clocks are fun and they are teaching me to be patient. I've never been a patient one in my 64 years so this is good therapy.

    Thank you again of the information.

    James Weaver
     
  13. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    1,198
    27
    48
    Bay Area, California
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    Well, James,

    With 14 clocks in a year's time I can happily attest to the fact that you have been well infected with the same terminal disease as the rest of us! LOL i was infected quite a few years ago and then went into remission, I didn't buy a clock for 15 years, but now, it is back with a vengeance, about 25 in 20 months so i understand. Gosh I didn't realize until I started counting that it was so many. Anyway, we are glad you are here. This is a great place to learn, share ideas, and just hang around. Good luck with your new treasure.

    Walt
     
  14. Bogey

    Bogey Registered User

    Mar 25, 2005
    727
    11
    18
    Retired Safety Consultant
    Northeast Wisconsin
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    I looked around the shop and my garage a couple weeks ago and decided I really need to stop buying clocks "just because it is such a great price, how can I pass it up..." That resolve lasted all of one week, then the devil put an auction in my way. Well I only really went to look. I didn't have to bid. But hey! That first one was so cheap...

    I came home with seven more! :excited:

    Too keep in line with this thread, one of them is a Becker that I will post when I get it running.Nutjob
     
  15. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    James, welcome to the NAWCC Message board and thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your GB clock. Not a pig in a poke from what I can see, but an authentic GB movement, movement and gong support bracket, dial, pendulum, and possibly at least one of the weights and the case. As Walt points out it may be a marriage as indicated by the extra holes in the backboard. Even then the case is of identical style to known fully original GB clocks made in Freiburg at the same time as was this movement.

    The movement was made in the Freiburg, Silesia factory toward the end of 1901. This date is a little earlier than the date shown in my dating table in this thread and mentioned by Walesey. I recently had to do a significant update after having the actual date fpr Junghans takeover of GB confirmed to have been in May 1930 instead of early 1926 as I had previously found. In addition some empirical data came to light that clearly tied down the serial number system change to have occurred most likely in June 1925. The combination of these two items pushed higher serial numbers earlier than previously thought, with the biggest changes during and after WWI. Also, even the period from 1900 to 1914 needed some fine tuning. I will post the updated serial number charts in the next few days, and later will post a complete update on the GB logos.

    Regarding the weights, 2-1/2 pounds seems to be the GB standard for this model clock, but as Walt mentioned it won't actually hurt the clock to run on 3 pounds on one train.
     
  16. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    1,198
    27
    48
    Bay Area, California
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)


    LOL!! Been there, done that, don't want the T-shirt, just another clock! :whistle:
     
  17. James Weaver

    James Weaver Registered User

    Jun 18, 2013
    7
    0
    0
    Retired Manufacturing Engineer
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here (Re: John Hubby)

    I want to thank everyone for the information that was provided. I love the information that all of you provide on all the subjects. I will be following the message board more closely now.

    Again, thanks all.
     
  18. Albra

    Albra Registered User

    Oct 17, 2006
    1,311
    7
    0
    Greetings all,

    Who can give me information as to whether the first clocks of G. Becker already had gears of stamped blanks, or had even cast blanks.

    And can anyone show pictures of a very early G. Becker movement and its gears?

    Thank you for your answers!

    albra
     
  19. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,375
    346
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #2219 wow, Apr 28, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
    I apologize for the photos. I am still in Houston with my wife at MD Anderson hospital, and all I have to photo with is my IPad. I took them in the back of my car and in the parking lot. I got a chance to slip away to an auction yesterday and found this GB wall clock. Please tell me what I have. The only thing missing on the clock is the door key. Anybody know where I can find one?

    Thanks,

    Will
     

    Attached Files:

  20. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Albra, do you have a time period to be considered, for example the first ten years? my database includes only two clocks in that time, one with serial number 1684 and the other with serial number 4845. The first clock was discussed here in 2012 by our member Tarant, hopefully he may have some photos as I do not. The second clock is found in Karl Kochmann's book "The Gustav Becker Story" on page 106 in the 1983 printing, but only with a photo of the front of the clock.

    If later clocks would be of interest I do have photos of clocks with serial numbers starting at 18000 and higher which are from about 1866 and later; however these do not include much detail about the gears except for motion works.
     
  21. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Will, it looks like you have quite an attractive clock. I don't recall seeing this case design before although GB made a number of clocks that aren't illustrated in their catalogs.

    I see the GB anchor logo, however there should also be a pendulum length stamp and a serial number which perhaps the photos aren't clear enough to see. The movement itself is illustrated in 1928 and 1932 catalogs but not before that, so the indications are that your clock would have been made in that period.
     
  22. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,375
    346
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks, John.

    I found these on the movement:
    Fabrication Allemande
    P48
    841
    M
    I find it interesting that the case has a keyed lock on the door. I have never seen this on any HAC or box style clock. Most have the hook/screw lock. The escutcheon was in the case. The movement is in very good condition. I don't think it will need anything but a good cleaning and oiling. We may be able to leave the hospital this weekend and go home where I will be able to get it going. Any other information would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Will
     
  23. Albra

    Albra Registered User

    Oct 17, 2006
    1,311
    7
    0
    John my studies indicate that in Silesia clock parts (eg gears) could be punched until much later, as in the Black Forest. I would therefore like to address the question of when Silesian clocks have punched gears. This is an important question in order to assess the level of technology of clock manufacturing in Silesia.

    Your research on the serial numbers can provide valuable help to this question. It would therefore be a great success if we find out from which serial number clocks by G. Becker have punched gear blanks.

    But how can we recognize, whether gear blanks are cast or punched??

    This is very easy to see at the edges of the gears: at punched gears you can see the breakage wherein at cast blanks the edges are smooth.

    albra
     
  24. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

    Feb 12, 2009
    7,238
    27
    0
    Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi, Will.
    Your clock is a good example for an elaborate case made especially for the French market.
    The design and the cast brass applications are typical. Many of these cases were made in France too,
    housing Vedette or Kienzle movements; I haven't seen such a G.B. yet.
     
  25. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,375
    346
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks, Jurgen. I thought it had a rather French look about it, but I was surprised when I found the GB movement.

    Will
     
  26. Albra

    Albra Registered User

    Oct 17, 2006
    1,311
    7
    0
    Will, yes, your GB clock has a case in French design and it is also known that GB clocks were delivered to France. On some of these clocks then there is also a sign of the importer.

    Although I suspect that the case of your clock was made ​​in France, but look if there is a sign or inscription of the importer on your case.


    albra
     
  27. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,375
    346
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I looked inside the case and found no name anywhere. Am I to assume it was made in Germany for the French market?

    Will
     
  28. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Will, thanks for the additional info. The serial number 841 shows the movement was made about 2nd quarter 1926, and the "Fabrication Allemande" stamp was only used when the clock or movement was destined for export to France. P48 is the pendulum length; we don't know yet what the "M" signifies but has to be something related to a design feature of the movement. I need to see more detail of the movement to positively identify it as a particular GB movement model, so when you have it out for cleaning photos of the front, top, and sides will be appreciated.

    The case is definitely of French influence and not shown in any catalog I have available. It may not have been a GB model but a locally made case in which the movement, dial, gong, and pendulum were purchased separately and installed in France. Do inspect the back and inside of the case thoroughly as there may be some stamp or other information related to the case origin. Also, when you have the clock home for service, please send photos of the gong base. The gong may have a name or simply "DRP" cast into the base where the rods attach, either way it will be useful to see what is there for documentation purposes.

    Your clock should clean up beautifully, keep us posted on your progress.
     
  29. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,375
    346
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks, John, for the wonderful info. I will post more detailed and clearer photos when I get to my shop.

    Thanks,
    Will
     
  30. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Albra, thanks for the clarification. I'll search my archives from the earliest clocks to see what photos might show how the gears were made. Unfortunately most of what I have are net photos that don't provide much detail about the gears, however I do recall there are some with the movements disassembled. it will be several days to review. I know of one movement that is owned by Scottie-TX that has the serial number 18667, time-only weight driven, that he probably can post photos that could be of help. Anyone else with any 5-digit or lower serial number Freiburg clock, please help as well.
     
  31. Albra

    Albra Registered User

    Oct 17, 2006
    1,311
    7
    0
    Will, the inscription on the movement "Fabrication Allemande" let me think, that only the G.Becker movement was imported to France and not the case. The case might be French.

    albra
     
  32. Albra

    Albra Registered User

    Oct 17, 2006
    1,311
    7
    0
    John, I realy appreciate your help!

    However, we do not know whether the introduction of stamping technology in Silesia goes back to Gustav Becker. Because the company A. Willmann & Co. was much more innovative than Gustav Becker and has offered much earlier movements in American style than every other clock facturer in Silesia.

    We should therefore also include in this study the movements especially of Willmann as well, but also of the other clock manufacturers in Silesia.

    albra
     
  33. v1sauk

    v1sauk Registered User

    Jan 19, 2012
    86
    5
    8
    Male
    Romania
    Country Flag:
    Hi all.

    I have a new Gustav Becker clock in my collection. SN 128460. I want to know your opinion about this GB. Thank you.

    1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG 6.JPG


     
  34. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks for posting your "new" GB clock! Based on the logo stamps, movement design, and serial number your clock was made at the GB Braunau, Bohemia factory in early 1895. The style of the case is typical of many Braunau clocks made in that period, with the spindle posts on the door and relatively simple design of the headpiece and bottom of the case.

    From the photos it appears your clock is completely original; I notice from the photo of the back of the case that the movement bracket screws are in their original position and the other parts of the clock are of the design and style of that period. Congratulations on your acquisition of an interesting example that is now almost 120 years old. Please post some photos after you have completed service and restoration of the clock.
     
  35. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #2235 John Hubby, May 4, 2014
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
    Gustav Becker Pivot Bridges

    The following is from a thread in the Clock Repair Forum discussing repair to a H. Endler movement. The question was to do with pivot bridges on the back plates, as the clock under discussion had a "Rathbun" type pivot locator added to it. Turned out that was a bodge, up to this writing no Endler movement has been found with one.

    In the discussion a photo of a GB Freiburg time-only weight driven movement was posted from this GB thread, which showed a pivot bridge on the intermediate wheel between the center wheel and the escape wheel. That was similar to this photo:

    71499 Mvmt 2.jpg

    This led to a review of the archives for my GB database.

    With regard to the GB weight driven movements with pivot bridges, I found some interesting new info by surfing my database archives. Based on the clocks I have documented thus far, neither the time-only nor the time & strike weight movements made from 1850 to the end of 1871 had pivot bridges of any kind. However, starting around serial number 50000 (early 1872), they BOTH are found with a pivot bridge on the intermediate wheel of the TIME train, between the center wheel and the escape wheel. The time-only version is the photo above; the time & strike version looks like this one:

    252269 Mvmt Back.jpg

    This practice continued for all weight driven time-only and time & strike movements made for the next 20 years to 1892, when the pivot bridges "went away never to return" around serial number 950000. The only reason I can think of why the pivot bridges were added must have had something to do with a major change in manufacturing process that eliminated a lot of hand finishing to rely on accurate machining instead. I suspect there was a lack of confidence that their manufacturing was good enough to always get the depthing right between the center wheel and escape wheel, thus the pivot bridge was added to allow a final adjustment.

    My supposition here is based on GB production increasing by orders of magnitude starting in 1872, tripling in six years from only 10,000 clocks per year to 30,000 per year, then doubling again over the next eight years to 60,000 per year. Evidently when they reached 75,000 per year in 1891 they were sufficiently confident in their process to do away with the pivot bridges, which would have reduced manufacturing cost for machining and parts and speeded assembly as well.

    Amazing what you can find when a curiosity comes along that needs to be researched. :thumb:

    I would appreciate hearing comments from our users about this, also please post photos of any weight driven Freiburg movement outside the serial number range of 50000 to 950000 that is found with a pivot bridge on the back plate.
     
  36. hsjnlssmith

    hsjnlssmith Registered User

    Jan 13, 2012
    77
    0
    6
    Offshore Construction Engineer
    Houston, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    John,

    I recently picked up this clock at a local auction here in The Hague and while researching on the internet for GB marine movements, was led to this thread and noticed the exact same movement for Ulan's clock.

    photo 15.jpg photo 18.jpg photo 2.jpg photo 25.jpg photo 3ex.jpg photo 3fx.jpg

    Sounds like the serial number will help you in your research, so I have taken a photo with the serial number partially visible and written the entire number down. It has 3 additional characters beyond that of Ulan's. Not sure why. Hope this helps you. I would love to know more about this clock if you can provide me more info. I have heard that it may have been built for navy vessels during WWII.

    This clock was in very poor condition as you can see but I immediately knew that I wanted to buy it and fix it up. I have not messed with the movement yet, but I did re-work the case and dial as they were in broken and rusty shape respectively. Here is what it now looks like.

    photo 1x.jpg photo 4.jpg photo 2x.jpg

    Thanks for your archive of information.

    Henry
     
  37. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Henry, thanks very much for posting your GB Ship's Lever Clock. It was in "VERY" rough shape as received, but you have done a magnificent job of restoring the case and dial! The movement will also take some considerable work but I can imagine it will look and run as good as the case when you are done. Please post photos of the movement after you have it completed so we can compare.

    GB made this model clock at least as early as 1909 and through WWI but seem to have discontinued it in the early 1920's. A similar model was made during the same time period using the same movement that was continued through at least 1928, and the movement itself is seen in all catalogs from 1909 to 1932, labeled as the "Cg" model.

    Your clock appears to be model No. 467 as illustrated in the 1909 through 1912 GB sale catalogs published by our member Victor Tang (www.any400day.com):

    Model 467 Cabel II.jpg Ship Lever Mvmt.jpg I have posted here a scan of the clock illustration and also the movement from the GB 1912 catalog. The early movement illustrations show the word "Patent" on the small third plate that holds the gears that are the object of the patent. I have seen a similar arrangement used for the GB 3/4 Westminster that operates with two mainsprings allowing the sharing of power between the two to provide at least 8-day operation. However, on this movement I don't know exactly what is the purpose, will have to do some research on that and find the actual patent for that information. Later illustrations of this movement simply show the GB anchor logo in the same location as found on your movement, I don't think the word "Patent" was actually used, although "D.R.P." may have been.

    There were actually two models that look exactly alike, actually the same design but with different dimensions. I hope I have posted the correct one. Model No. 463 Cabel I is 9-1/4 inches (23.5 cm) diameter with a 6-inch (15.25 cm) dial, Model No. 467 Cabel II as pictured is 11-3/4 inches (30 cm) diameter with a 7-3/4 inch (19.7 cm) dial. I have a No. 463 Cabel I in my archives so I compared the photos with yours and the proportions appeared to me that you have the larger clock. The same movement was used in both of them.

    Based on the serial number your clock was made in late 1916 during the war, being a bulkhead clock it could have been used by some of the better furnished German naval offices, most likely civilian since I believe that clocks made for the German military were required to be identified as such. The No. 463 in my archives has serial number 2314415 so it was made shortly after your clock. Altogether I now have eight GB clocks documented that have this movement, ranging in age from 1910 through 1928.
     
  38. tarant

    tarant Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    1,161
    30
    48
    Neurohorologist ;)
    Wroclaw
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    One of KMZiZ forum posted interesting GB. The movement is identical to early Silesia movements (see 1912 Catalogue) and has very unusual signature, similar to this used before "medaille d'or", but without the the anchor. Is this a "Praesilesia" clock ;) ?

    GB1.jpg GB6.jpg GB3.jpg GB4.jpg GB5.jpg GB7.jpg
     
  39. jacobsthlm

    jacobsthlm Registered User

    Apr 30, 2013
    190
    0
    16
    Magicians, Photographer
    Stockholm, SWEDEN
    Country Flag:
    #2239 jacobsthlm, May 13, 2014
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
    Hi all

    I have a new clock. At first look it looks like many other GB clocks but as soon as you open it, it's not. First of all has the pendlum been broken, as seen in the 2:nd picture, and been repared but is now to short. It does not look good at a estetic point of view when this makes the pendlum just bearly to be seen. I'm not sure if it can be used at all, but previous owner said he had it up and running. As you can se it has gone throgh some changes and most obvious is how it's mounted in the case. Even the bell doesn't look like a genuine GB design, does it?

    I have not seen the lower box attached by hinges before, but how it's made makes me think that it's built that way. As you can se I have another pendlum I'm planning to use. It seems like someone tried to oil the clock with motor oil and for that reason it's not working longer the a few minuter, right now...

    The clock is also missing a piece of glass and the top part is also missing, as many other. It's a SILESTA piece and it's without a serial so I guess it's a rather late one. Maybe 1915-1925, or so, but I'm only guessing so let's wait for John...

    Regards
    Jacob

    P.S. There are some stange blue light and my sofa is black but the important part to get accurate was the clock. I got it for 40 Euro...
     

    Attached Files:

  40. Walesey

    Walesey Registered User

    May 24, 2012
    581
    9
    18
    High School Science Laboratory Assistant
    Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Jacob,
    That is a nice looking clock.

    Is the pendulum that came with the clock shown in photo 1 or photo 2? I am guessing that the pendulum in photo 2 came with the clock and the pendulum in photo 1 is the one you would prefer to use. Is that right?

    There are many others more knowledgeable than I who will comment, but it seems to me that the pendulum length is the number stamped on the back of the movement. "P42". Did you measure the pendulum from the top to the bottom of the rating nut thread? Was it close to 42 cm?

    The pendulum in the first photo looks good for that clock, but if it is much longer than 42cm then I suggest that the clock is a "marriage". Someone has discarded the original movement and replaced it with a movement from a smaller clock (possibly a mini "RA clock" or such. If you put in a pendulum that is longer than 42 cm then the clock will run very slow and not keep time.

    All the best
    Walesey
     
  41. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Piotr, thanks for posting! I agree with you that the name stamp is almost identical to the one used by GB for their movements made from 1869 to 1877, but without the GB anchor at the center. I've not seen this marking used previously on one of their Amerikaner movements so need to add it to my GB logo file.

    On inspection of the photos, I also agree with you that this may be one of the very first GB Amerikaner movements, made before they decided to use the large fancy GB anchor logo with "SILESIA" stamped underneath. As to when it was made, I have not yet been able to show conclusively when GB started production of their Amerikaner movements. We know it was at least as early as 1907 as we have copies of advertisements that year. However, I recall seeing information about such movements that was dated earlier, perhaps 1904 or 1905. Should anyone have concrete information when these movements were first introduced, please post it here.
     
  42. jacobsthlm

    jacobsthlm Registered User

    Apr 30, 2013
    190
    0
    16
    Magicians, Photographer
    Stockholm, SWEDEN
    Country Flag:
    Yes, the one I got with the clock is seen on picture 2, on top of the box. No, it only measure 31 cm but I have the movement to that other pendlum and that say P46 but when I checked it's only 38 cm and not 46. I hink we need John or someone els who can help us with how this is measured.

    Any way, the pendlum I thought of using is a P46 instead of a P42 and maybe not possible to use.
     
  43. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

    Feb 12, 2009
    7,238
    27
    0
    Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Well, here we go again; pendulum length measures like this on most European industrially made clocks:

    Pendellänge1.jpg
     
  44. jacobsthlm

    jacobsthlm Registered User

    Apr 30, 2013
    190
    0
    16
    Magicians, Photographer
    Stockholm, SWEDEN
    Country Flag:
    #2244 jacobsthlm, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
    Well it's just not possible to know things without Learning them and now I know how to measure the length.

    I'm suprised to say that it IS 42 cm. AND that I was wrong, it looks fully normal when it's up on the wall. I start to wonder why it's mounted this way and if it's even possible that it was made like this. I can't find any wholes where the metal rack once should have been mounted...
     

    Attached Files:

  45. tarant

    tarant Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    1,161
    30
    48
    Neurohorologist ;)
    Wroclaw
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Who won this movement on eBay ? Very interesting spring driven, grand sonnerie striking movement. The oldest I've ever seen, SN 414305. Pendulum crutch, resembles a little those in Comtoise clocks.
    GB1.jpg GB2.jpg GB9.jpg GB4.jpg GB5.jpg GB6.jpg GB3.jpg GB7.jpg GB8.jpg
     
  46. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,375
    346
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Well, we finally got home from Houston. My wife is slightly better. We are trying to get her stronger so she can continue treatments.
    I shot a few more photos of the movement from my Frenchie GB. Hope this will help your files.

    Will
     

    Attached Files:

  47. jacobsthlm

    jacobsthlm Registered User

    Apr 30, 2013
    190
    0
    16
    Magicians, Photographer
    Stockholm, SWEDEN
    Country Flag:
    Did you know it was a GB when you bid on it? I'm not sure I even understand it. Is it 3 springs, as in 2 for the bell funtion, or what? If the scale that John made on page 3 still is the latest it's from 1884. Have you tried it, if it's working or not. I didn't know there is GB dials without a separate second hand, but I'm far from beeing an expert on GB clocks.
     
  48. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,286
    224
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Piotr, thanks very much for posting! This is the first (and so far only) grand sonnerie striking spring driven movement documented to be made by GB. Based on the serial number and using my latest dating information this one was made near the end of 1883. The Medaille d'Or and GB Freiburg logo are in the typical position for clocks of this vintage.

    We have seen a few other GB spring driven clocks with the mainspring arbor click assemblies mounted on the back plate, so that feature has been seen before. The special crutch with a Comtoise-style "eye" to clear the rear of the center mainspring arbor is new, however. Also, this is the first example I have seen of a beat adjustment device on the crutch with a fork so that it can be used with the rod of the gridiron pendulum.

    As you say, a VERY interesting movement and adds a new chapter to the GB story.

    Jacob, the Grand Sonnerie striking feature of this movement requires three trains to make it work. Looking at the front of the movement, the train to the right is for the quarter strike, the center is for the time, and the left is for the hour strike. A Grand Sonnerie strike will strike the quarters on one gong (one, two, three, and four strikes), and after each quarter strike for the first three it will strike the hour just passed for the quarter, half, and three-quarter hours. At the hour it strikes four for the fourth quarter and then the current hour.

    Regarding a seconds hand on the dial, "many" GB wall regulator clocks were made without this feature. In fact, the Braunau factory made very few clocks with a seconds hand, I've documented only six out of nearly 700 now in that part of my database. The wall clocks made at the Freiburg factory appear to have used the seconds bit only on their weight driven models; I have no spring driven wall regulator or freischwinger examples in my database that has a seconds dial.
     
  49. jacobsthlm

    jacobsthlm Registered User

    Apr 30, 2013
    190
    0
    16
    Magicians, Photographer
    Stockholm, SWEDEN
    Country Flag:
    Is your latest database about serials and years, published anywhere? Is your whole database on Gustav Becker anything you plan to share? I would love to have pictures of every model each years so I can compere every new bought GB with pictures and maybe find out missing parts.
     
  50. tarant

    tarant Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    1,161
    30
    48
    Neurohorologist ;)
    Wroclaw
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The latest list of the SN with the year of production John published (02-21-2014) not so far from here ;) :
    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?10545-Post-Your-Gustav-Becker-Clocks-Here&p=71775#post71775
     

Share This Page