Nice clock, Congratulations! John Hubby will give you an exact date based on his revised serial numbers but I'm reasonably sure it is the Braunau factory and probably around 1910 based on John's previous listing. It is definitely an eight day, time and strike. How about a picture of the whole case....... Best, Richard T.
Richard, Thanks, for the reply. I was hoping that it was an 8 day, as I did not want to have to wind it every day . Sorry, I thought I had posted a complete picture, well I guess not, here is what the clock looks like. Chuck
Chuck, very nice Braunau clock, made early 1911 based on my most recent update. The matching Art Nouveau decoration on the weights, pendulum, and dial make these very attractive. I notice that you are missing a panel on the front door, between the dial and the beveled glass. On most of these, this is a simple matching wood panel but a few have been seen where this panel has some inlay work or brass decoration. I'm attaching a photo of one clock with inlay and one with a plain insert, so you can see what it looks like. Also, someone has removed the movement locking strap and springs from the movement, this is a horizontal brass strap that is spring loaded so when you put the movement on the mounting posts it locks in so the movement can't move. The clock will run fine without it and I think about the only way to replace would be to make one. I'm also attaching a photo of a movement like yours that has the strap in place so you can see what I am saying. The strap is the bar that runs across on the inside of the back plate, the two screws there are spring loaded. John Hubby >>>>
John, Thanks for information on my new clock. Where you say I am missing a panel, there is glass there. Upon inspecting it from the inside it seems to have be put in the same way the crystal glass below was done. Do you think it could have come that way or did someone do a good job of replacing the panel with glass? I thought it was strange that the movement did not lock into place, are these locking devives hard to make? (seems not to be). As always, thanks for all your help. Chuck
Chuck, since the panel is plain flat glass I'm certain it is a replacement. "If" you want to have glass there I recommend you get some bevel glass panes made to match the ones in the door, and put them in to the same pattern as the top row of glass. You can buy the metal separators to match (these are called "came") at any stained glass supply shop. They just need to be cut to size and soldered together around the glass panes. There are a number of suppliers who make beveled glass to order, and it's not expensive. All you need is a full size drawing of each piece, showing width and height, thickness of glass, and width of the bevel. The locking bar isn't difficult to make. I don't have a drawing (nor do I have a clock with one) but perhaps someone seeing this can disassemble theirs and post some pics to show all the parts. John Hubby >>>>
Chuck, just for fun I photoshopped your clock to show what it would look like in what I think is its original form with a wood panel where there is now plain glass. Also, what it would look like with bevel glass panes installed. This latter version is similar to other cases I have seen. This might be of interest as you consider what to do with your clock in future. John Hubby >>>>
John, I really like the latter one with the beveled glass, I will need to look into this, when I tear the movement down for cleaning.( this winter) THANKS! Chuck
Hi, gang. Hoping John Hubby or someone may be able to assist with possibly a date of manufacture or any other info regarding this Gustav Becker clock of mine. As you can see from the pics, this poor clock has seen better days. When I bought it (just over a year ago), it had been infested with termites (hence the damage visible to the back interior of the case), was missing the top/crown, and missing the pendulum. I contacted a termite company, made arrangements to leave the clock in a vacant house that was being tented, and then picked it up afterward. The top piece is a replacement, and you clock gurus will easily notice that it's far from a 100% match. The average person who comes in my house, however, never notices. For a while it had a brand new pendulum hanging in it, but man did that make me grit my teeth every time I looked at it! I finally found a vintage bob at a flea market which matches the face of the clock quite well as far as a general "look" goes, but I have no idea what the original pendulum bob would have looked like. As for identification on the back plate, you can see that the "G" from the "GB" is not really visible. It doesn't appear to be worn off; I think it's more likely that when the plate was originally stamped they didn't stamp the G-side of the logo hard enough. You can just barely see a hint of the "G." As for a serial number, there's nothing other than the "P.42" visible. In looking at the Freiberg logo information previously posted by John Hubby, it looks like my clock dates from sometime during the period of 1909-1933. Not sure if it can be nailed down any more specifically than that.... Anyway, thanks in advance for any info that anyone might have about this clock. John
Nice find, SS: Looks like your choice of pendulum may be correct - the ubiquitous RA bob. Looks like about 1910 to me. Justa guess til th' GB scholars show up.
John, I've gone through my data and also the 1912 GB catalog (courtesy Victor Tang). So far, no exact matches but enough info to indicate your clock was most likely made between 1908 and 1911. Here's what I found in the 1912 catalog: Two models with very similar cases, Model No. 3024 and 3025. Photo of the catalog illustrations is attached. The spring regulator section is introduced with a description of the "Silesia" movement, extolling its virtues. This is the same movement in your clock, solid pinions and strap recoil escapement. Most of the spring regulators have either the "R-A" type pendulum or a plain bob, all with a faux gridiron pendulum rod. The exact gong and bracket on your clock is shown in the catalog, Model Ta. A photo is attached. None of the spring regulators have a metal dial of the same type as yours, they are either 2-piece enamel or one-piece silvered or gilt metal. Earlier clocks in my data have dials similar to yours, the chapter being silvered and the center being engraved and gilt. This particular dial design wasn't used much after 1910 at the Freiburg factory although it was continued for Braunau clocks until the early 1920's. These were more up-market weight drive types. On those clocks that have original pendulums and a similar dial, the bob is engraved or embossed with the same design as is on the dial center. Most of the pendulums had wood rods, a few had faux gridiron rods. The first Silesia movements apparently were made in 1908 in Freiburg, although I don't know exactly when production started. These were very versatile and used in all kind of cases for both wall and mantel clocks. In summary: Your clock was made in Freiburg, most likely between 1908 and 1911. This is based on the use of a typical Silesia movement, dial construction (which would have had a silvered chapter and gilt center), and the case design. It most likely had a pendulum bob that matched the design on the center of the dial, also a wood pendulum rod although a gridiron rod would not be out of place. I don't think it would have had a RA pendulum because of the engraved dial center.
Hi, John (and Scottie). Thanks very much for the detailed information. I really appreciate it! Take care, John
Just a little addition for you historians JOHN, etalii, and all those followers of BECKER. Thought I'd share one of the dirty dozen; This one a 1 wt. P27 - beautiful example of this later era. Arced, brass pallet arms; vulliamy pallets, spring loaded lower keyhole mount, no power mtc., but just in pristine original condition. All bushings excellent and none replaced. Here for your pleasure and annals.
Hi I am new to this forum but I would be interested if you can help me date my Gustav Becker Vienna wall clock, if thats what it is ? I have just Inherited this clock but after looking at this forum I have noticed that a lot of these clocks have fancy carvings for the top of the clock, however mine has not and I wondered if it should and if so where can I get one ? Also I would like to no how to set the chime as it does not appear to chime when it reaches the hour, however it will chime if I move the hands to the hour also the chime is not clear but a dull thud. can you help me many thanks Ian Bain
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Hi, IB! Welcome to the board. We have on board an EXCELLENT GB historian, John Hubby, who'll appear shortly with his expert opinions. For dating, he'll ask for a closeup picture of the logo and a number stamped on the plate. Until he and others arrive, I believe yours would be called a Vienna STYLE regulator. Vienna regulators are normally regarded as weight driven. Yes, there was a decorative top piece. Suppliers make these in various styles and widths. eBay is also a good source for old, original ones. Let's start with "thud". Hammer needs at LEAST a thirty second - 1/32" clearance from rod or gong it strikes. A sixteenth or more would be preferable. To get that clearance, lightly bend the hammer arm upward for necessary clearance. As for not striking, it may be the lift lever is not being lifted high enough to begin strike by itself. Yours is called a STRIKING clock as "chime" would refer to a clock that plays a melody such as "Westminster", etc. Yours looks to me like about 1910 but John'll be able to date it closer. Welcome a board! Nice clock.
Scottie, your fine photos give me a lot of info to work with, but still missing items I really like to include in my database: Photo of full back plate showing pendulum crutch Case photo, movement installed with dial, weight, pendulum? Dial photo? If it's movement only, OK would still like to see back plate w/crutch. The movement was made in the Braunau, Bohemia factory, about end 3rd quarter 1909. I've recorded relatively few time-only regulators from Braunau, but all of them have been very well made.
IBAIN, your clock is definitely a Gustav Becker. It has one of the "American Style" open plate movements introduced by GB in 1909 to compete with Junghans, HAC, Kienzle, etc. This particular movement with the "SILESIA" stamp indicates it to be one of the earlier versions having cut pinions. Later versions used lantern pinions and omitted the "Silesia" stamp. There was a period of overlap when GB were making both, starting around 1912 and extending into the 1920's. After about 1926 I have seen only the lantern pinion models. If you could post a photo of the whole clock with the door closed we might be able to match it to one of the clocks shown in a GB 1912 or later catalog. My present guess is that your clock was made just before WWI, say 1912-1914, but with the full front photo we might get a better idea.
Thanks Scottie for the information, I will try what you suggested lightly bending the hammer to a sixteenth of a inch, can you also tell me how to Synchronise the strick I would be much obliged, also how often should I wind it up John I will take a photo of the whole clock to see if you can match it up with a top from your catalog. John can you also tell me what the P and the P45 indicates I am really enjoying learning about this clock, I have also put a photo of my great gran mothers pocket watch which I have been given info on can you have look and give me your expert Opinion
Hi, Ian, welcome to the message board. The P45 indicates the length of the pendulum in cm. Can you tell us what your strike is doing (example, striking 10 at 12 o'clock). Your clock should be wound up weekly, although it may have a 14 day movement.
Hi Harold I will listen tonight and get back to you and how can I tell if its a 14 day movement or not ? PS Have you any relatives back in the old country Mr Bain ?
Ian, I probably do have relatives in Scotland. My Great Grandfather immigrated to western Canada in the mid 1800's. To tell if you have a 14 day movement, wind it up fully and see how long it will run before stopping. You should consider having the movement serviced, as, like anything mechanical, it will require cleaning and oiling periodically.
Just a little aside HAROLD, but that 1wt, T/O, movement only I posted on page 17 is P27. P27? 1 wt Vienna. Now I haven't finished regulating it but - a ten inch pendulum on a Wiener? I don't disbelieve the meaning of that "P" - just question it in my case.
Scottie, the weight driven clocks made in Braunau do NOT use centimeters for pendulum length. Nor do they convert to inches, however that is reasonably close to the actual pendulum length. On the other hand, the SPRING driven clocks made in Braunau do use centimeters . . to say the least this has been confusing in trying to sort out which is what. The P27 on a Braunau weight drive clock is actually equivalent to the P64 found on Freiburg clocks, so I'm working on a correlation or conversion that can be used to equate the two systems.
Hmmmmm; Very interesting. Nearly regd. now and at 25" from susp to reg nut. That IS 64cm. As for a conversion, I'm certain it would be linear - something like 64/27 = n or P = 27n such that the function could be applied to any Braunau "P" weight driven to convert it to cm. In this example - P27, 27(64/27) = 27(2.37) = 64cm or 25".
Here ya go JOHN: No case: Have movement only with dial. Pendulum, pulley, weight, etc. are not original. Hands are not original so I omitted them. I do not find movement no. anywhere on dial. However, I share with you inscriptions there .
Scottie, thanks for the added photos. Your clock has what I call a "Standard Adjustable Crutch" meaning the beat adjustment is built in to the crutch with the crutch pin mounted on a threaded rod. I gather you don't have the mounting bracket, it would be a rectangular brass piece (rect. hole in the middle) with four bayonet prongs mounted, which fit into the four keyhole slots in the backplate. I sure wish the "year" part of the date inscription on the back of the dial were as legible as the date and month (26 VII). My best guess is 26-VII-18 for July 26, 1918. The letter or number after the 8 is not decipherable even though it kind of looks like a 4. There "may" be another letter or number after that but difficult to see. However, I'm absolutely certain the date isn't 1848 or whatever. I also see that my name is part of the word under the date . . my clock, perhaps? I have no idea what the other inscription means. If Zep or Albra come along maybe they can help decipher. I agree with you there should be a correlation between the Braunau numbers and the Freiburg centimeter sizes. The ones I've recorded for weight driven Braunau clocks, with the approximate corresponding "Freiburg" centimeter lengths using your formula, include: P20 : P48 P27 : P64 P32 : P76 P36 : P85 The above are the only four pendulum lengths I have verified for Braunau weight driven clocks. One additional piece of info is that Freiburg started stamping pendulum lengths on back plates about 4th quarter 1898, but Braunau did not do this until 4th quarter 1906.
I didn't include the postmount because, again - it's not original. Somewhat labor intensive, but I make my own. It fits like a glove as it should. Note I have drilled no holes for mounting it nor have I mounted a suspension post. That allows the new owner to 1. Put holes where they want and 2. Mount the post either on the backboard or postmount. Most probably the original was suspended from the postmount. That also provides the new owner latitude inside the case and preference of pendulum location - higher or lower in the case. I prefer mine to flirt with the base - that is, swing nearly on the floor of the case and if possible be on the same center as the pallet arbor - the most efficient location.
The repair mark is for 26.VII.1948. The fellow put in a new whatever we call them. The gut-string things. You know, Saiten. The scratches to the right appear to be a name. Regards, Zep
Forgot to add this (below) which gives an idea how the older Sütterlin style looks in a regularized font (for the second line). Z.
Hi Harold and John for the information Harold my clock doesnt strick on the hour it only strikes when I move it to the hour, I assume there must be somthing wrong with the Mechanism ? is there anything I can do to sort it ? John you asked me to attach a full photo of the clock so you can maybe match what kind of top might of went with my clock:- Hope you can help me again, Many thanks ian [/ATTACH]
Ian, its unusual that it will strike when you move the hands manually, but not when the clock is running. I don't know what your level of clock repair skill is, but I would run it on a test stand to see why, with the dial off, so you can see if the rack hook is being lifted far enough on the hour to release the rack for the strike. That is probably where the problem is.
Ian, thanks for the full front photos. Your clock is very similar to three models shown in the 1912 GB Catalog (thanks again to Victor Tang) so I'm posting a scan of those with this message. If you will note, the only thing different about the three models shown is the headpiece. Below that they are all identical. This was common for Becker and other clocks, where they would make the cases alike except for the top, which could be selected to fit one's taste. You should be able to find something similar to the headpieces shown here by looking at TimeSavers, Merritts, or Meadows & Passmore online. Check the width of your clock at the top and compare that to what is shown in the attached photo, so you can maintain proportions.
Here JOHN and others: Possibly near the end of the Freiburg era? I have only what you see - no dial - nothing else. Rather clean condition will be easy to resuscitate:
Scottie, thanks for the pix. This one is no where near the end of the Freiburg era . . actually ca. 1896 per the serial number, and Freiburg GB logo clocks were made at least through 1932. This movement is of interest for couple of reasons: The snail is mounted on the hour pipe. I've searched my files and have found three earlier weight driven T/S Freiburg movements that appear to have this same feature but they are not clearly shown. I'll be interested to see more movements with earlier serial numbers with the snail on the hour pipe. Note that ALL rack striking spring drive T/S movements have this feature, both Freiburg and Braunau. However, on Freiburg weight drive clocks starting about serial number 1,300,000 the snail was moved and mounted independently with a 12-point star wheel that is tripped by a pin on the minute cannon gear. All of the Braunau weight movements have the independent snail. This movement has the lowest serial number (so far) with the GB circle logo on the left and the Medaille d'Or to the right, after which this arrangement was used for all subsequent clocks. Both logos were introduced at the time the Medaille d'Or was granted in 3rd quarter 1875, but generally placed with the Md'Or to the left from that time until 1896. After 1896 they are consistently placed in the manner as seen on this movement.
Hi John, here are the pictures of the third T/O movement I have. You may already have this one documented, as I think I posted it as some point. The movement and case are a marrage, so I add it only for interest (probably only mine. Even though this dial has no seconds scale, the movement still has the extended escape wheel pinion. So I figurered they used the one movement fits all approach as far as dials where conserned
Hi Harold I am such plonker the clock strikes okay I was just to impatient to wait for it moving to the hour. However to clock is running about 7 minutes fast, how do you slow it down ? I take you move the pendulum ? is it up or down ? Thanks again Ian
Move the pendulum down, by turning the nut at the bottom of the pendulum rod. Turning from right to left should lower the bob. If it's 7 minutes fast a day, I would start by turning the nut two complete turns, reset the time, and see how far off it is 24 hours later.
Peter, thanks for the photos. I did already have the movement details documented, made 2nd quarter 1875. I think you made a good choice for the case. I've noticed the seconds extension for most of the GB time only movements. Why they didn't put the seconds bit and hand on the dial of all of them is a mystery. Does yours show true seconds?
It has a 60 second scale on the seconds bit but it only takes something like 45-47 seconds for the hand to complete a rotation. That's the norm for these isn't it?
Interesting . . I know the 2-weight Vienna style clocks had these 45-second "Seconds" bits, but did not realize the time-only clocks were the same. However, that would allow them to use the identical time train parts as for the 2-weight striking versions to make an 8-Day time-only model. It would be interesting to take apart two of these made in the same year for comparison. You mentioned that serial number 95727 has the seconds extension to the escape arbor but no seconds bit on the dial. That means GB would have been making some clocks with the seconds bit at that time in early 1875. However, I've no data (so far) showing this feature on any earlier clock or movement. Will need to keep looking to find when this started. The first time-only weight clock with a seconds bit on the dial in my data has serial number 100713, made just shortly after your clock in 1875. The first 2-weight striking clock in my data with a seconds bit on the dial has serial number 110662, made at the beginning of 1876.
Yes John, that is interesting! It sure would seem that there must be some earlier movements with seconds bits out there somewhere. I am drawn to T/O weight movements and Beckers seem to be the ones I most often win. I will add any that I am lucky enought to get in the future.
SB, need to see a photo of the movement back plate showing serial number and logos. With that will be able to provide you with complete summary of where it was made, when, etc. If serial number isn't clear in the photo please post it.
