Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mike306p/Ansoniaman, Jul 5, 2006.

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  1. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #51 John Hubby, Jul 16, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    Travis, from an historical perspective this is a significant clock. It is one of the transition models made in 1910 when GB was entering direct competition with Hamburg American, Junghans, Kienzle, etc. The use of the GB Anchor with "SILESIA" and the serial number both confirm it was made in Braunau. While the movement is less expensive than the solid plate clocks with the Braunau and Medaille d'Or logos, the case and dial are still the high quality generally associated with GB.

    NOTE: Later confirmed these movements with the GB anchor and Silesia stamp and a Braunau serial number were made in Freiburg but finished in Braunau. The information in this post should be disregarded as far as where these were made and the dating. This clock movement was made in Freiburg and finished at Braunau in early 1913. Nov. 1, 2014 J.S. Hubby

    Evidently there were only a few of these inexpensive solid plate clocks made before they started production of the open plate models with only the logo and no serial number. So far I have only two other such clocks in my database, both in mid to late 1910, yours was made about 4th quarter 1910. Interestingly enough, neither of the ones I have already documented nor yours have the "P" designation for pendulum length. Both the earlier and later solid plate serially numbered models have that as well as the inexpensive non-serial numbered clocks made later.

    I'm curious about the "star" wheel on the back of the movement. Is that the hammer trip wheel? Also, I see someone took the Brasso or something to the silvered chapter ring of your dial, like the other 2nd Baroque you presented above.

    Thanks very much for posting your clock, if anyone else has similar clocks in the same serial number range I sure would like to see them.

    John Hubby
     
  2. Mike306p/Ansoniaman

    Mike306p/Ansoniaman Registered User

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    3 weight Gustav Becker

    83.jpg
     
  3. Mike306p/Ansoniaman

    Mike306p/Ansoniaman Registered User

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    3 weight Gustav Becker

    84.jpg
     
  4. Travis

    Travis Registered User
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    Here are two more 2-Wts. Both have the Braunau logo, and the one on the left is serial number 262408 and has a bar gong. The one on the right is serial number 143324 and has a coil gong.

    http://static.flickr.com/57/195758765_503e5a4b91.jpg

    The dial to the one on the left:
    http://static.flickr.com/72/195758767_246e48cf51.jpg

    The movement of clock on the left:
    http://static.flickr.com/78/195758769_14e3e47976.jpg

    Dial of clock on the right:
    http://static.flickr.com/67/195758770_6e22d395b5.jpg

    Movement of clock on the right:
    http://static.flickr.com/62/195758771_5e3212d5eb.jpg

    Travis
     
  5. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    I don't mean to criticize, but I think that gong (in the last picture) really needs to be polished/cleaned. The rust on it is quite bad, and will only deteriorate the gong over time. All you needs is a bit of steel wool, and it should clean up nicely.
     
  6. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    It's this one Alan
     
  7. Scottie-TX

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    #57 Scottie-TX, Aug 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2014
    This is a re-run but noticing what appears to be a more recent enthusiasm for dating and identifying BECKERS - I thought I'd give it another shot: It has a GB movement. That's the only indication I have that it may be. Door is of a lift- out style; No hinges. Two posts index two holes atop. Whaddya think: Two foot tall; seven in. wide. This look like a GB to you?

    And woodwork detail: Circassian walnut? Old? Whaddya think; BECKER make anything like this?
     
  8. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    Your toe looks crooked.

    Nice clock though. One day I will get me one.
    RJ
     
  9. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Scotty, looks like a Becker. Could you verify the serial number? What I see is 33868, but need to know if there is another digit hidden behind the crutch. Is the same number on the front plate? May also be a GB anchor there too. Any other info stamped on the back plate?

    John Hubby
     
  10. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Yep: "Confirm" 33868. No number under the crutch. Nope. No numbers on the front plate. No anchor there. Someting else seems not congruent to the number is that it has the later ( I believe ) style anchor - adjustable pallets mounted to a squarish brass anchor spanning a smaller number of teeth.
     
  11. #61 vienna_sucker, Aug 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2014
    As well as the two double weights already posted I also have a couple of springers including this one serial number 1341019.

    I also have two springers without serial numbers just marked Silesia. One of these has the remains of a paper trademark on the back of the case. Unfortunately this paper is ripped and not complete.
     
  12. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Scotty, your clock first. With the serial number 33868 the clock was made about 3rd quarter 1869. I've seen a couple of other Beckers of similar vintage with simple cases like this one, however would not be able to clearly say the two started life together. The case actually looks a bit short based on where the pendulum bob hangs over the beat plate so I suspect it is a marriage. Nice one, however!

    The GB Anchor logo "by itself" isn't characteristic of most of the clocks seen in this time frame, the others having the words "GUSTAV BECKER FREIBURG i/S" stamped around the logo (see my post on the first page of this thread). However, there were also some GB clocks made in this period (cylinder escapement 400-Day clocks) that have no logo or name, just a serial number, so I'm going to enter the data with a note pointing out the difference.

    Thanks for posting.

    John Hubby
     
  13. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #63 John Hubby, Aug 28, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    Vienna, now to yours. Based on the serial number this clock was made in 1st quarter 1898. The presence of only the "Gustav Becker Freiburg" Anchor in Circle logo, and the absence of the "Medaille d'Or" stamp seems to have been characteristic of some spring driven models, starting about 1891 and going through 1900.

    Could you post a photo of the front of the clock so we can see what the movement is associated with?

    Regarding the two clocks with "SILESIA" being the only ID, those were made at the GB Freiburg factory between 1906 and 1925. Photos of the front of the clocks would provide info to get the dates a bit closer, based on case styles. Are there no other letters or numbers stamped, such as pendulum length (e.g. P27)?

    John Hubby
     
  14. Richard T.

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    Greetings John and all,

    Below are pictures of a spring driven GB wall clock. It has the GB with anchor in a circle . Serial number is 1 228 647. No other markings. It is rack and snail. Clock has not been cleaned. GB trademark on dial.

    47.gif

    48.gif

    49.gif

    50.gif

    Regards,

    Richard T.
     
  15. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Thanks JOHN for your opinion - pretty much the previous consensus. I seriously doubt the case is GB. Not sure why - justa gut feeling I guess. BUT as you note; I don't care. I don't care if it's a GB. It'll be here for a Loooong time. I like it THAT much. Thanks.
     
  16. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Richard, thanks for posting your clock. Very nice example of the GB spring regulators. This clock was made about mid-1896 based on the serial number. The single GB circle logo kinda confirms what I said about Vienna's clock, that GB evidently used this logo (without the Medaille d'Or) mainly for spring driven clocks in the 1891-1900 period. The few that I have in the database within this same period having both logos and spring drives are (so far) high grade mantel clocks. Anyway . . will keep posting the data and see what falls out.

    John Hubby
     
  17. Richard T.

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    Thanks John. Good information.

    Best Regards,

    Richard T.
     
  18. william lockyer

    william lockyer Registered User

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    I have a nice 1889 GB movement, with a fair case. I lack the dial. Do you have dials besides whole clocks? Mine takes a 7 1/4", with 2 1/4" between winding stems. Can't seem to find even a reasonable facsimile out there.
     
  19. BIG D

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    Here is mine, a floor model. Not serially numbered, and Bim Bam strike. Has the GB with anchor logo like freiburg 1925-1933 on pastimes chart. Only other marks on movement are "P112" (pend. length)and an uppercase "K". Does the K have any real significance?

    51.jpg

    And this is the gong base marked Rosalinde.
    52.jpg
     
  20. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Don, could you post a photo of the movement back plate? I would like to check the logo and also any letters that are stamped there. I have found recently that the GB anchor logo that I show as 1825-1933 may have been used as early as 1919.

    You mention the letter "K" stamped on the back plate, which I presume is on the right side of the back plate. I've also found the letter "H" stamped on the left side of the plates that had the letter "K". Will appreciate if you would confirm what is there.

    John Hubby
     
  21. BIG D

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  22. Scottie-TX

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    #72 Scottie-TX, Sep 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2014
    Gebruder Becker: (wish my keyboard had an umlaut). "Brothers Becker":
    Towering over a miniature GB is my 3 mo. runner - massive plates and pillars - a hefty FIVE pound movement with a FOUR pound, single piece dial, eleven in. dia.!

    For you BECKER historians, "541780"
    and boasts a seconds beat pendulum with a centre sweep seconds hand!

    . . . . and little brother swings a fifteen inch pendulum with "98427" and "Freiburg 1/S"?
    Huh! What's that 1/S mean?
     
  23. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Don, thanks for the additional photos. This does help, I take it there is no other letter stamped on the back plate. The logo definitely is the same as the one I had previously documented for the period 1925-1933, have now extended that period to 1919-1933.

    From that, the letter "K", and the style of your clock my best guess for manufacturing date is between 1919 and 1925.

    John Hubby
     
  24. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Scottie, thanks for the big guy/little guy pics. I've previously dated the big one at 1886 on another thread, made in the Freiburg, Silesia factory. The little one was made in 1875 based on the serial number and logo stamps. The "i/S" stands for "in Schlesien", in English that is "in Silesia". That's where the GB Freiburg factory was located.

    Would appreciate a front view of the little guy, in its case.

    John Hubby
     
  25. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Thanks again, JOHN. Yes!
    I would also love to see a picture of the small one's case. Alas it is an orphan and I adopted it.
     
  26. Schmeltzer

    Schmeltzer Guest

    Gustav Becker Serial Numbers

    Can someone please suggest a guide -- preferably an active Internet web site -- whereby one can check the date ranges for Gustav Becker serial numbers?

    Many thanks!
     
  27. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #77 John Hubby, Nov 19, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
    I'm posting the latest update to my Gustav Becker serial number dating tables here for info. Please refer to the notes and also the the logos earlier in this thread for proper use of the tables. These tables were originally posted November 19, 2006.

    September 7, 2014:
    NOTE TO ALL: NEW information has been confirmed regarding when GB was taken over by Junghans (May 1930) that has changed the summaries posted after the serial number tables. Also, both Freiburg and Braunau numbers have changed modestly in the years 1918 to 1925 as a result of the transition from the traditional GB numbering to a new system, implemented mid-1925. These tables have been updated as of this date. You can use the tables with confidence that your clocks can be accurately dated.

    PLEASE NOTE THESE ARE COPYRIGHTED BY JOHN HUBBY ©2003-2019 BUT MAY BE USED FOR PERSONAL INFORMATION. PLEASE REFER TO LOGO TABLES FOUND ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THIS THREAD TO ENSURE YOU ARE COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES!! An update of the logo tables is in progress and will be posted later this month.


    Just a note of caution on GB serial numbers. Kochmann's data is reasonable up to 1900 but had to be adjusted to ensure accuracy based on latest info per table below. After 1900 his data is seriously wrong. Also, they apply only to the Freiburg works. The Freiburg works produced about 2,510,000 serially numbered clocks from the beginning in 1847 up to mid-1925 when the numbering system was changed for as yet unknown reasons. Here are Freiburg works serial numbers for the period 1847 through mid-1925, taken from a table I have developed from a database of over 2,500 clocks including many dated examples in that period as well as being dated by patents, trade advertisements, catalogs, and other information.

    1847: 0000001 1848: 0000051 1849: 0000121
    1850: 0000251 1851: 0000481 1852: 0000721 1853: 0000971 1854: 0001241
    1855: 0001541 1856: 0001881 1857: 0002271 1858: 0002721 1859: 0003251
    1860: 0003901 1861: 0005101 1862: 0006901 1863: 0009301 1864: 0011901
    1865: 0014801 1866: 0018001 1867: 0021701 1868: 0025901 1869: 0030601
    1870: 0035801 1871: 0041801 1872: 0049501 1873: 0059901 1874: 0073001
    1875: 0089301 1876: 0109001 1877: 0132401 1878: 0159901 1879: 0192001
    1880: 0228701 1881: 0270001 1882: 0316001 1883: 0365001 1884: 0416001
    1885: 0469001 1886: 0526001 1887: 0588001 1888: 0656001 1889: 0729001
    1890: 0805001 1891: 0882001 1892: 0958001 1893: 1030001 1894: 1096001
    1895: 1156001 1896: 1212001 1897: 1265001 1898: 1316001 1899: 1366001
    1900: 1441001 1901: 1530001 1902: 1610001 1903: 1683001 1904: 1753001
    1905: 1821001 1906: 1887001 1907: 1951001 1908: 2013001 1909: 2073001
    1910: 2130001 1911: 2184001 1912: 2231501 1913: 2266001 1914: 2285001
    1915: 2297001 1916: 2306001 1917: 2315001 1918: 2331001 1919: 2349001
    1920: 2370001 1921: 2393001 1922: 2418001 1923: 2444001 1924: 2470001
    1925: 2496001 1925.5: 2510001

    These numbers indicate the first serial number used for each calendar year. Highest recorded serial number to date is 2508167. The numbers highlighted in BLUE have been changed as a result of the new information noted above.

    In about May 1925 GB stopped using their traditional consecutive serial numbering system that included all types of clocks except for their pendulum alarm clocks (1876-1914). They also ceased using the circular GB anchor logo and the Medaille d'Or at the same time. Only the GB anchor logo or Gustav Becker name is found on clocks made after the change. It isn't known why this was done, however GB had just completed the 25th anniversary of the 1899 Vereinigte Freiburger Uhrenfabriken (VFU) merger and it could be the seven-digit numbers were becoming cumbersom. The new serial numbering system started with the number "1", but this was used simultaneously for at least four different types of clocks. Thus we find a multiple number of clocks of different types with duplicated serial numbers. This new system was applied to 400-Day clocks, spring driven Westminster mantel and wall clocks, some hall clocks, and weight driven wall clocks. The following serial numbers apply ONLY to 400-Day clocks and spring driven Westminster mantel and wall clocks made at the Freiburg factory from 1925.45 through 1932 when the factory was closed:

    1925.45: 0001
    1926: 0566
    1927: 1451
    1928: 2201
    1929: 2851
    1930: 3471
    1931: 4071
    1932: 4661 to 5000


    All date and number information here is new at this date except the beginning and projected ending serial numbers. Here again the numbers shown are the first serial number for that year. The highest serial number for 400-Day clocks recorded to date is 4990; for Westminster clocks 4797.

    Now here is the one that causes the most confusion regarding GB serial number dating. The GB Braunau (Bohemia) works was in operation from February 1888 until May 1930 under Gustav Becker when GB was taken over by Junghans. Braunau had their own series of serial numbers that started with "1" in 1888 and ended about 922,000 at mid-1925, the same time the change was made for Freiburg clocks. What happened after mid-1925 is explained after the chart.

    If you have a GB clock with the two "traditional" logos (Gustav Becker Freiburg i Schl and the "Medaille d'Or"), that clock will have been made in the Freiburg works. HOWEVER, if the logo has the following: "Gustav Becker Freibug i Schl. Braunau i Boehm", plus the "Medaille d'Or", THAT clock was made in the Braunau works and its serial number does NOT correlate with Kochmann's data. In fact, he says in "The Gustav Becker Story' that there is no data available from the Braunau works.

    I have developed data for the Braunau works using the same methods that were used for my Freiburg research, and the following applies to the Braunau clocks, based on nearly 700 actual examples at this date:

    1888: 000001 1889: 015001
    1890: 031501 1891: 049001 1892: 067101 1893: 085701 1894: 104801
    1895: 124401 1896: 144601 1897: 165501 1898: 187101 1899: 209601
    1900: 233001 1901: 257401 1902: 282801 1903: 309101 1904: 336201
    1905: 364001 1906: 392501 1907: 421701 1908: 451601 1909: 482301
    1910: 514001 1911: 546801 1912: 581501 1913: 618901 1914: 657501
    1915: 696101 1916: 732601 1917: 766001 1918: 794001 1919: 819001
    1920: 841501 1921: 861501 1922: 879001 1923: 894001 1924: 906501
    1925: 916501 1925.5:
    922001

    These numbers indicate the first serial number used for each calendar year. Highest recorded serial number to date is 921794, the 1926 first number is an estimate. The numbers in BLUE were changed following the discovery of the earlier mid-1925 transition date from the traditional GB serial numbering system to the new system.

    Braunau also finished some clocks after mid-1925 using the new numbering system; however we do not have enough data to provide an estimate of total made under this system. The highest such number recorded so far is 627. It appears that from 1926 until the Freiburg factory was closed at the end of 1932, the Braunau factory was used to assemble non-serial numbered clocks for GB. Sometime after the Junghans takeover in May 1930 the factory started assembling Junghans clocks, which continued up to the beginning of WWII.

    Please understand this Braunau data is still a work in progress and subject to change. I think it is quite good from 1888 through 1913, because there are significant technical differences in the clocks of this period from the later ones. Starting in 1913 Branau started finishing a special grade of GB's "Amerikaner" movements and stamped them with a Braunau serial number. This was done to the beginning of WWI and stopped until the war was over since the Freiburg factory had been converted to make war goods and all the Amerikaner movements were evidently made at that factory. From the time of the Armistice these movements were stamped "Made in Tschechoslovakia" in addition to having a Braunau serial number, which was continued up to mid-1925.

    When using any of this data, first thing to do is check the LOGOS. One other check is to see if the clock has coil gongs or rod gongs. If it has rod gongs it cannot have been made before the end of 1898, as that was when the German patent was issued to Johann Obergfell for the invention of rod gongs. In 99% of the cases, if you find a GB clock with a low serial number and rod gongs, it will have been made in the Braunau works and thus quite a number of years newer than would be indicated by Kochmann's data. This will cause some heartburn for some collectors, but as they say those are the facts.

    To help develop this info further, I will very much appreciate being contacted off list with info from your clocks . . photos of back plates are essential, also full front view. I'll try to help you date your clock based on that info. In particular, I am interested in receiving ANY info from clocks that have dated presentation plaques or inscriptions.

    John Hubby
     
  28. konrads

    konrads Guest

    Hello!
    I have a clock that has been acquired by unknown means at unknown time :)
    It appears to be the 1910-1926 one:
    Identification marks:

    • <LI> GB Silesia logo
      <LI> No serial number
      <LI> Gloria coil gong
      <LI> Left side of the back plate (the mechanism): P underneath that: P48
      <LI> Right side back plate: H
      I attached some shots, but my consumer grade camera doesn't do macro shots :frown:

      42.jpg
      43.jpg
      44.jpg 45.jpg
      46.jpg

      I'd appreciate if someone could drop some more information , to satisfy my curiosity.
      Also, I'm not sure what to do with it - nobody uses it and the sale value is probably less than hundred bucks :)
     
  29. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Hi, Konrads, welcome to the message board. What a shame no one in your family wants your clock.
    I have a miniature Vienna style case with that gong and movement. I would happily give it a home, if you were closer to Canada!!
    Harold
     
  30. Graham

    Graham Registered User

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    Hello all,
    heres my latest Becker acquisition. It appears to have the Freiburg anchor logo for 1899 - 1926. The serial no is 2292828. Can anyone pin this down to the actual year.

    47.jpg

    48.jpg

    49.jpg
     
  31. Nikolay

    Nikolay Guest

    Dear Sirs,
    Will you be so kind to help me in identification of the clocks that I found near the garbage can (!). I'd never been interested in any clocks, but it's very nice chance to start.I add an oil inside and tried to clean external parts...they are working!!
    Reading your good forum I found that according to logos they were produced in Silesia by Gustav Becker between 1910-1926 (but I guess according to wooden clockbox style they are older...). Tere's no number also, but they have letters "P42"(pendulum), "H" and "S" (Hours & Seconds??) and "F" (?). The meaning of the last letters is not clear for me...
    It's a wallclocks and it seems to me, the top and bottom parts were lost.
    Is my analysis right?
    May be you have something to add or may be you have any pictures of this model with top and bottom?
    Thank you in advance and sorry my English...
    Some pics are there: Album

    Nikolay.
    nixon27@mail.ru
    PS
    Navigator's interest:
    Is anybody knows why the anchor was the label of GB historically.

    front10.jpg
     
  32. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    For you gurus, purveyors, and fans, GB, etalii, I share with you:
    I recently acquired this elegant (obviously incomplete) Becker case and movement. The movement will be another topic or at another one. It is a story in itself. SELDOM do I find a clock (OK - timepiece) that so reeks of original. But I digress. The case: Thirty one inches tall - so not a BIG Vienna. Glue tracks, top and bottom of door edges imply possible half columns (not familiar with architectural terminology), top and bottom. "208459" on movement suggests what - about 1878? Any you gurus, GB, reckon, JOHN what the top and bottom looked like when original? This WAS a very elegant case!
     

    Attached Files:

  33. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Scotty, I've seen the stamp on the back of the case on several early Freiburg Beckers. However, to make absolutely sure this is a Freiburg, will appreciate your posting a photo showing logo(s) and serial number on the movement. How about showing the dial too?

    IF it is a Freiburg, was made early 3rd quarter 1879.

    Regarding the case, I've seen similar clocks of that period, most have a relatively simple architectual style head piece but it forms the whole top of the clock. The bottom also would be simple in style. Both would have a major part made with the same veneer as on the case itself with ebonized trim. I just can't imagine someone desecrating a case like this.

    John Hubby
    >>>>
     
  34. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Well; We don't know that the damage was malicious or intentional . If this clock could speak, it may chill your bones to know what it has seen. As you, I also envision a simpler style of base and headpiece, consistent with that period and the style of the case as we can see it. Indeed, "FREIBURG" is part of the movement stamping. "THANKS JOHN" and hier:
     

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  35. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #85 John Hubby, May 25, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    Nikolay, I hope you have not given up to receive a response here about your clock. Thanks very much for posting the very detailed photos of the clock on photobucket, that helped a lot to provide information about your clock.

    Firstly, it was made at the Gustav Becker Freiburg factory in Silesia, probably between 1910 and 1914 before WWI. I agree with you that the headpiece and a bottom part of the case is missing. Most of these clocks had fancy headpieces, with finials and sometimes a figure like a horse. The bottom piece would be more simple but with finials as well.

    The letters "S" and "H" on the movement are still the subject of my research. I don't have enough data to make any kind of correlation, but it appears they have something to do with the type of clock and possibly the year of manufacture.

    With regard to the anchor being used by Gustav Becker as his logo, I believe it is related to an award he received in 1852 but do not have enough information to verify that. However, I do know that the anchor with crown on top was used from 1852 onward (clocks with serial numbers above 750). From 1869 to 1875 the words "Gustav Becker Freiburg i/S" were added on most wall clocks.

    John Hubby
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  36. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Scotty, thanks for the movement photos . . and this one is the exception that proves the rule "never say never". The GB logo and Medaille d'Or logos of all the clocks I've documented so far from 1875 to 1896 have these in the reverse position as on your clock. Starting in 1896 they put them in the order per yours, and stayed that way until 1926 when Junghans took over and they were dropped. Now, "IF" your clock had a "1" in front of the six digit serial number, that would put it 1896 when they made the transition . . Hmmm . . .

    I will search my files to see if I can find a case somewhat like yours, will post if found.

    John Hubby
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  37. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #87 John Hubby, May 25, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    Graham, hope you're still watching the MB. Your clock was made about 2nd quarter 1914, just before WW1. Some have said that production stopped during that war, production did slow down significantly but there were still clocks being made. Freiburg was a long way from the western front, and I have found much info showing that the clock industry continued in business for the most part during the war. In particular, GB, Jahresuhren-Fabrik, and Kienzle didn't shut down all their production, even though they did gear up to make time fuzes for artillery shells, etc, plus a LOT of alarm clocks.

    John Hubby
    >>>>
     
  38. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Again Mr. "H"!
    Thanksa millyun. Your BECKER background and research is VERY much appreciated.
    Stay tuned tho; The movement! The R E S T of the story!
     
  39. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #89 John Hubby, May 25, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    Konrads, your clock was made at the Freiburg, Silesia factory of GB, most likely between 1910 and 1914. Most people would erroneously date this clock in the 1920's.

    If you aren't going to use the clock, don't trash it. You might be surprised what it will bring if cleaned up and serviced.

    John Hubby
    >>>>
     
  40. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    I'll finish this GB story right here.
    The movement original to it is one you only dream about.
    Da-ripping with oil so profuse, I bathed it in gasoline as a pre-clean.
    All that oil - and it didn't look contaminated - protected this movement, lo, all these years. The rundown:
    Not a single bushing has been replaced yet all wheels stand erect with less than ten degrees wobble! This movement did not see many hours of operation. I found only a trace of tooth wear on the pallets. I noted ZERO detectable wear on the pinion leaves WAIT!
    It gets better: I polished only ONE pivot on the backplate side of the winding drum. All others sparkled like a mirror under a loupe. Hearing a light swish on impulse and an additional "ka-lik" with each beat, I polished the pallets more and made a more accurate wearplate. Cleaned and lubed ONLY, this movement is reliable on ONE pound with great overswing.
    Certainly, movements like this are only in your dreams. This one came true!

     

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  41. clocksiam

    clocksiam Registered User

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    We have this GB wall clock in for repair. Case is very ornate (in parts & pieces right now in the process of being restored).

    See pictures of plates (no serial numbers found, just those on front plate), dial & verge & pendulum rod. The pendulum bob is also porcelain with lyre.
     

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  42. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #92 John Hubby, May 27, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    This clock is another that was made at the GB Freiburg, Silesia factory. This is the first time I've seen the letter "A" at the left above the pendulum length (P42). Is there another letter at the right side of the back plate, such as "H" or "M"? Also, I'll need to see the case before making a stab at providing a date closer than sometime between 1906 and 1914.

    John Hubby
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  43. Travis

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    This Gustav Becker 2 weight Vienna regulator gives rise to several questions. The pictures of the case don't show enough detail to be definitive, but the case appears to be oak. The crown seems to be of the same wood type as the rest of the case and is old. The finials seem to me to be of the same wood, so may be original. The movement has the Freiburg logo on it. It is marked P65.5, and the serial number is 1462100. The dial is the usual 7 1/4". The case has no extra holes, and the movement and the case seem to have been born together. The metal seatboard has a capture mechanism for the crutch and pendulum extension, which are fitted together in a strange way (to me, anyway). Also, the crutch is marked DGMS 103274. I have seen a similar crutch interface on a Becker 2 weight in a rosewood box case that was made in Czhekoslovakia, but no one made in Freiburg or Braunau. Also the shape of the pallet holder is different from any Becker that I have ever seen on a weight driven regulator. I have seen this on spring driven RA regulators, however. I am posting several pictures and have several more available.
     

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  44. clocksiam

    clocksiam Registered User

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    Looks like Walnut or Mahogany. Oak would not look that good on the turnings
     
  45. Graham

    Graham Registered User

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    John,
    that's great info. I really am thankful for all your efforts and research.

    I have been a little busy recently but I do still keep an eye on the MB from time to time, and as it happens I have recently picked up a rather nice 2 weight Vienna wall clock which I suspect may be a Becker but I'm not sure as it has no markings on the back plate.
    The only ID on the clock is a paper label on the rear from Camera Kuss & Co

    Did Becker ever produce unmarked movements for other retailers ?

    I have ordered some new gut line for it as the old ones look a bit frail. When it arrives I shall take some photos of the movement whilst fitting the new lines and post them here to see if any one can ID it


     

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  46. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    I believe these cases and others like it may have been made of several varieties of wood within the same case. Finials typically a VERY hard, tight grained wood for turning of detail. Then the case; Often a construction grade but strong wood over which, often a walnut or mahogany veneer. The top may have even been a different of wood conducive to carving, often walnut also.
    Now the pallet holder: Picture a little difficult to make out; What about it do you find unusual? Are the pallet holders secured by bolts from the backside of the anchor instead of the front perhaps?
     
  47. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Travis, this clock was made 1st quarter 1900. DGMS 103274 is for a self-adjusting pendulum crutch mechanism as is now fitted to your clock, including the unusual movement support plate with the "loop" to contain the crutch. This use patent was effiective from Aug. 22, 1898 but was issued only on Nov. 1, 1898 so clocks with this stamp had to have been made after the later date. I have seen this stamped on both Freiburg and Braunau clocks including those stamped "Made in Tschechoslovakia". Braunau was in Bohemia under German control until November 1918 when the armistice conditions transferred Bohemia to Tschechoslovakia. GB Braunau clocks were generally stamped with "Made in Tschechoslovakia" after that date.

    Regarding the anchor configuration, there were several varieties used for Becker clocks made in the period from 1899 to about 1905 including this one. The reason is that when Becker merged with five other clock makers in 1899 to form United Freiburg Clockmakers (VFU), a number of designs used by those other makers made their way into GB clocks until they were standardized after a few years.

    John Hubby
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  48. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Graham, do post the photos. However, to my knowledge GB didn't produce unmarked movements for third parties. They "did" make clocks for traders and put those names on the dials (e.g. Geo. Kuehl Co. of Chicago) but not on the movements. The only documented instance (so far) where they put a third pary logo on their movements was a batch of about 1500 400-Day clocks made for Huber Uhren in the early 1920's. These did not have a Becker logo but did have the Becker serial number.

    John Hubby
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  49. Travis

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    Thanks again, John. Scottie, I was just concerned about the shape of the anchor as John pointed out. I had never seen this particular shape on a Becker weight movement. By the way, I forgot one other thing: this movement also has maintaining power which I find unusual on a two weight.
     
  50. Graham

    Graham Registered User

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    Here is a photo of the movement from the Camerer Kuss 2 weight Vienna regulator (posted earlier) At first I thought it may be a GB but as John has pointed out GB didnt produce any unmarked movements. Any way I have just fitted new gut lines to it and wondered if anyone can give me an idea of the possible makers and age.

    Apart from the retailers label on the rear and the serial number 3092 on the movement, and both weights, there are no identifying marks on the backplate.
     

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