Post Your Gustav Becker 400-Day CLocks Here

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by John Arrowood, May 21, 2002.

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  1. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Costaniuc, thanks very much for the additional detailed photos. These do answer all the questions I asked, the serial number stamp on the front plate of the movement is in the identical location as these first three batches made, so there is no variance there. I see the serial number on the pendulum is five digits lower than the one on the clock, being 1685030 instead of 1685035. This is very close, and in such instances there is always the possibility that the pendulums were mixed up at a retail shop where they likely didn't pay too much attention to such detail if they had several of this model for sale. They all look alike, so no worry if the numbers don't match. :whistle:

    You have quite a nice clock and being such early date is one of the few still remaining. Thanks again for showing us your treasure!
     
  2. Costaniuc

    Costaniuc New Member

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    Re: two tone Becker

    Thank you John for all your comments. Do you think is a good idea to have it polished and restored make it all shiny again. I`ve seen some websites in England that are specialized in restoring this type of clock. Will this affect it`s value or not.
    Thank you again , I will now post on your seth thomas section one Seth Thomas office calendar number 10 clock.
     
  3. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Re: two tone Becker

    I bought this Gustav Becker 400 day clock and at the moment only one picture. Waiting for my camera battery to charge.
    Is there anything missing above the dial. looks like two brass pins broken off.
    It runs in it,s current state but needs some work. Suspension guard is missing.
    Serial number on back plate is 2267857, would that date it to around 1925, before Junghans took over. DSC02279.JPG
     
  4. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Re: two tone Becker

    As for a date... Probably more like early February, 1913.
     
  5. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Kevin, it looks like the entire pediment and finial assembly is missing above the dial. I can see the suspension bracket in your photo, if the pediment were there you would not be able to see it. Looks like the bracket is a No. 7, which would be correct for this clock. Based on the serial number it was made in first quarter 1913 before the adjustable suspension bracket No. 8 was patented.

    When you get more photos will be able to say more about it.
     
  6. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Thanks John for the reply. Wondering how difficult it will be to find those missing parts. I took a look on Ebay yesterday but did not find much.
    I noticed too on this one serial numbers back plate and under pendulum do not mach. So she is a a fair bit older than i thought.
     
  7. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Here are some more pictures i just took. DSC02294.JPG DSC02296.JPG DSC02298.JPG DSC02297.JPG DSC02293.JPG DSC02295.JPG
     
  8. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Kevin,one more to congrat You! Hey,the Becker is the Rolls Royce of torsion clocks! A serious collector must have one.Hope You find the missing parts.As to the ss-guard:there is a guy on evilbay from Australia who regularly publishes that he has these missing parts both of GB and of Hauk´s for sale.I definitely know he sells ss-guards,I don´t know if he also has these pediments.Good luck!
    Burkhard
     
  9. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Re: two tone Becker

    Just to clarify... That seller is reproducing hard-to-find parts. Few, if any, of them are original; But, the quality looks pretty good, overall.
     
  10. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Kevin, what is the serial number on the pendulum? I can date that just like the clock itself.
     
  11. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    #411 Kevin W., Jun 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
    Re: two tone Becker

    Hi John, the serial number on the bottom of the pendulum is 2250181.
    Thanks John.
    I did see the seller on Evil bay and considering getting the guard and also will need the screws too. Hope the other missing parts come up.
    Is this clock 8 beats per minute and what is the thickness of suspension spring it should have. My book only shows plates up to 1909 for Gustav.
     
  12. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Kevin, thanks for the info. Your pendulum was made about mid-1912, approximately 8 or 9 months before your clock was completed. Somewhere along the line it got switched but is a correct pendulum for your clock.

    With regard to Repair Guide dates for GB clocks, only a few of the plates are sort of correct but most are not. For example, Plate 1149 is shown c. 1907 when it first appeared only in 1922 and was used from then until the end of 1932 when the Freiburg factory was closed. Similarly, Plate 1207 is shown c. 1910 and was used during the exact same time period as Plate 1149. Most of the GB plates illustrated in the Repair Guide were used over several years, perhaps only four were used for short periods of two to three years. There are also at least as many variants that are not in the book as are presently illustrated there, the variation being the addition of a name or logo or having one missing or the like. The actual plate designs need to be sorted out as they didn't change nearly so much.

    Your clock has Plate 1207A, which was used from the beginning of 1909 to the end of 1922. The suspension spring strength in the book is a 0.0040 inch size, but you may find it slightly too thin for this clock. My experience shows you will likely have to buy a 0.0045 and thin it down unless the pendulum has been bodged and weight removed from the lead ring in the base. It pays to check the condition of that ring, also you might find that someone has added weight so they don't have to thin the 0.0045 spring.
     
  13. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Thanks John for the great explanation. It,s good to know where to go to get a wealth of information on GB 400 day clocks.
    I was surprised to find this clock with a intact suspension spring.
     
  14. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    Gustav Becker plate 1206B ?

    Hello everyone!
    This is one of my Gustav Becker:s that I have to restore. I would like to have more info about it. I think it is hard to find any relevant info on the internet about s/n vs year of manufacturing. Different sites have different info.. Are there any correct s/n number list avaliable? The s/n list in Terwilliger:s book isn´t correct either?
    Well, I beleive this clock has plate number 1206B, correct? The serial number is 2466609. Could anyone give me some info about it?
    Best regards from Sweden
    Erik Stenström
    DSC_3991s.jpg DSC_3993crs.jpg DSC_3994s.jpg
     
  15. etmb61

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    Re: Gustav Becker plate 1206B ?

    Hi Erik

    Your Becker is from around 1924, about the time the company was sold. Note it does not have the circular stamps of the earlier clocks.

    Nice clock.
    Eric
     
  16. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: Gustav Becker plate 1206B ?

    Erik, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your GB 400-Day clock. My most recent update of the serial number dating database shows your clock was made near the end of 1923 based on the movement serial number, a bit earlier than the date mentioned by Eric. You have correctly identified the back plate as Plate 1296B, however the actual circa dates for this plate are only from mid-1922 to the end of 1924.

    I have a serial number list posted HERE but it is in need of updating since it was recently confirmed that the actual takeover of GB by Gebrüder Junghans didn't occur until May 1930 so the serial numbers show slightly later dates than actual from 1919 through 1928.

    There is "no" Internet listing of GB serial numbers that is completely correct, and not one at all for the Braunau, Bohemia factory except what I have developed and posted here on the message board. My update should be completed this month, I'll notify everyone when that is done.

    Your clock appears to be complete and original, is there a serial number etched into the bottom cover of the pendulum disc?
     
  17. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    Re: Gustav Becker plate 1206B ?

    Thanks a lot for the information! I have checked the pendulum and it has matching s/n-number engraved!
    DSC_3995crs.jpg
     
  18. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    Re: Gustav Becker plate 1206B ?

    A little bit nicer now.. ;-)
    DSC_4015fix.jpg DSC_4019fixc.jpg DSC_4017fixw.jpg
     
  19. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    I bought this clock a couple of years ago in this shape, I beleive it has Plate 1149 . S/N is 1443 (Junghans S/N??) . Problem is the green colour. Almost all paint on the 4-ball pendulum and pillars are gone, the top floor on the base is heavily scratched and the once beautiful dial is crackled and flaking. I suppose there is nothing to do with the dial. It is beyond rescue. I guess it is impossible to give the dial a new paint and also impossible to find another dial in descent shape. Otherwise it seems to be complete. So what to do with the clock? Any suggestions?
    Best Regards from Sweden!
    Erik
    DSC_4030cr.jpg DSC_4031cr.jpg
     
  20. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Dial House could probably restore that dial for you. They aren't cheap, but you'll be very pleased with their work.
     
  21. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    #421 Ingulphus, Jul 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Erik -

    I have re-lacquered many of these "sunburst" dials, which were also used by Kundo and Schlenker und Posner - it's not that difficult, and much, much cheaper than having it professionally redone. The Dial House does exquisite work, but they are very expensive, and you will want to do the pillars and pendulum balls at the same time so all will match.

    The dial is held in the bezel (on the ones I've worked on) by three indents that create "catch points" - these first need to be pushed back flat so that the dial and its support plate can be removed from the bezel. I don't know how the dial is fixed on a Becker, but hopefully it's something similar. Once the dial is free, you must remove the chapter ring, which is held in place by four short pieces of copper wire that are bent to hold the ring tight against the dial - the copper tends to be brittle and can break easily; I've had success with briefly warming them with a small flame before attempting to carefully bend them straight. Once they are straight, you can remove the ring and set it aside. Underneath it you will see the original color in all its glory, protected from UV light all these years.

    The old lacquer will come off easily with acetone (the same goes for the support pillars and the pendulum balls). I like to polish the pillars and ball shells before I re-lacquer, but it usually isn't necessary to do anything to the dial other than make sure it's free of all old lacquer.

    I use one of two brands of translucent spray lacquer - in the U.S., Krylon makes a "stained glass paint", although not in green (just red, yellow and blue), and there's a lacquer used by model makers called Tamiya, which come in exactly the right shade of green (as well as red and blue). You can find the Tamiya on eBay; many sellers will ship to Sweden, and the cost should not be prohibitive.

    Choose a dry, calm day, and do the lacquering outdoors if possible - or if indoors, make sure there's plenty of ventilation and no open flames nearby. I wear disposable gloves to keep my hands free of paint. I warm the dial first, and hold it from its underside with the four fingers of my left hand, while spraying with my right - an initial light, even coat, followed in half an hour by a second one to obtain the right depth of color. For the pillars, I hold them vertical on long screws or nails that I push into a piece of stiff foam (and don't overdo the spray or the lacquer will drip down); the ball shells I lay on a flat piece of foam (you can anchor them with a toothpick if you like) or a stiff paper plate.

    If you make a mistake, it's very easy to remove the lacquer and try it again. When you are satisfied with the dial, attache the chapter ring to the dial, again briefly (so as not to affect the lacquer) warming the copper pins before bending them. Align the three catch points on the dial back plate and the bezel, but before pushing the plate back into place, put the three dial feet into the front plate of the movement and carefully rotate the dial so that it's in its correct position (with the 12 at the top, of course). Now carefully push on the bezel to firmly seat it on the dial plate and using a small screwdriver or awl, bend the catch points back into their original position.

    I note from your photo that the "equator" or lip separating the top and bottom pendulum balls is polished brass; to replicate this effect, after you've applied the final coat and the shells are thoroughly dry, use a cotton swab barely moistened with acetone to remove the lacquer from the lip, being careful to not touch the rest of the shell. It takes a steady hand, but it's not difficult, and if you make a mistake, it's easy enough to remove the lacquer and re-do it.

    Do not use any kind of top coat or wax on the lacquer - it will only dissolve it and you'll have to start over again. The scratches on the bottom are a problem - on most of the later Beckers, the bottom is brass-plated steel, not solid brass, and if you attempt to polish it you may remove the plating. I would say either live with it or keep an eye out for an identical base in better shape on eBay.

    Here are some of the clocks that I've re-lacquered, to give you an idea of what the clock will look like when it's re-done. The green one photographed as a blue-green, but in reality it was a pure deep green.

    Best regards,

    Mark

    Enameled dial Kundos 003.jpg Speciality Trading.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  22. sjaffe

    sjaffe Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Beautiful results Mark! Do you need to mask off the number ring? Did I miss that part?
    Stan
     
  23. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Mark, thanks for the tutorial! I can vouch that this works very well, I have also restored many of these dials using this procedure. I normally use the Tamiya lacquers but have tested Krylon and Testor's as well, all work OK but I think the Tamiya colors are closer to the originals.

    Erst, your clock was made right at the end of 1926 based on the serial number. Regarding the Junghans reference, I started that some years ago when I thought that the Becker takeover happened about 2nd quarter 1926 and that was a good reason to conclude why the GB numbering system changed. How it changed is described in the last paragraph.

    Not long ago two things were discovered that caused the story to be different from what had been related until then:

    First, we found that the takeover actually didn't happen until May 1930, so that very likely had little or no influence on why GB made the change in their serial numbering system.

    Second, we found that the change actually started in mid to late 2nd quarter 1925 based on clocks stamped with actual manufacturing dates as early as May 1925. This discovery confirmed that some presentation inscriptions found on low serial number clocks dated late 1925 were in fact correct; earlier we could not explain this anomaly of clocks being presented before we thought they were made.

    In summary, what happened was that just before mid-1925 GB stopped using its traditional consecutive/sequential serial numbering systems that applied to all clocks with serial numbers, and started at least four separate and parallel serial number series that applied to specific types of clock movements. These included 400-Day clocks, Spring Driven Westminster chime and Westminster-Whittington dual chime movements, chain driven grandfather clock movements, and weight driven time & strike wall clock movements. The serial numbers for each type all started with "1" so there are "many" clocks of different types having the identical serial numbers; I have documented quite a few of these. At that same time, GB stopped using their traditional circular GB logos and the Medaille d'Or; from that point forward using only the GB Anchor logos in various designs and/or the Gustav Becker name.
     
  24. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Stan -

    I refer to the number ring as the chapter ring, and it is removed from the dial entirely before re-lacquering. The chapter ring is printed ink on metal, so any solvent would immediately ruin it.

    Best regards,

    Mark
     
  25. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    One thing I neglected to mention is that once you have polished the pillars and pendulum ball shells, it is important to remove any traces of polish with acetone and a clean rag before attempting to lacquer them (I'm in the middle of re-lacquering a dial, etc. for a Sokol Montag Louvre clock that I'll post once it's complete, and the process has jogged my memory a bit). You may wish to order two cans of the lacquer, in case you end up having to do re-do the components more than once - I'm glad I did...:confused: And do make sure you are ordering translucent lacquer, as Tamiya makes many opaque lacquers as well, and they will not give you the correct sunburst effect.
     
  26. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    #426 Erst, Jul 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Thanks alot for all help all of you! Just one (stupid) question:
    The sunburst pattern isn´t painted? The pattern is still there when I have removed all the old laquer? Or how is it possible to just paint once and get the splendid result as on your pictures, Ingulphus?
    The top floor is also painted so I´ll guess there will be no problem to give it a new layer of laquer.
    By the way, does anyone know what the Tamiya green color is called? (how to find it on ebay..)

    BR
    Erik
     
  27. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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  28. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    #428 Erst, Jul 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Thanks a lot, I think I understand now! Originally the metal was machined and then it was painted and because of the translucent lacquer you will se the pattern .. About the Tamiya-link above, that are there ordinary acrylic paint, not the translucent? Or is it the same thing?
    Isn´t it this paint I need?
    ITEM 86044 PS44 Translucent Green on :
    http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/polycarbonate_spray/kit86002.htm
    Sorry about asking so many questions but I really hate to do things when I don't understand everything behind!
     
  29. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    #429 Ingulphus, Jul 21, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2014
    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Erik -

    You are correct - you want the translucent green lacquer meant for polycarbonate plastic, not the "clear" green acrylic. If you search eBay for "Tamiya translucent green" you should find what you need.

    Here are photos of the dial from the clock I'm working on at different stages of the process. In the first photo, you can see the original color where the lacquer was protected by the rim of the bezel and the chapter ring; in the final photo, I have loosely assembled the dial in the bezel and just placed the chapter ring on top - when I am finished with polishing and lacquering the brass case components, I will install the dial properly.

    Best regards,

    Mark

    Dial - Step 1.jpg Dial - Step 2.jpg Dial - Step 3.jpg
     
  30. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    It looks so nice on your pictures Mark!
    I bought the Tamiya laquer PS-44 (translucent green) in a local model store yesterday but at first I was a little bit disappointed when I compared the green colour on th lid with the dial. But after removing the bezel and chapter rings the original seams to be almost perfect match!! Just as you said.
    Now the problem is the little GB logo between the dial centre and the chapter ring. What will the best way be to restore that? In my mind a small stencil in thin plastic or paper would be a possible way to go, so it is just to spray the logo on with black laquer. I have checked some stencil companys at the internet but it looks like most of them doesn't do such small and hi-res stencils... Or is there a better way? Of course I could skip the logo but I think it should be nice to have it there..
    1200ejmoareliten.jpg
    BR
    Erik
     
  31. sjaffe

    sjaffe Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Erst,
    Do you think you could put something together for a stencil using a computer? Use a drawing program to create the artwork, then print and use as a guide to cut out a stencil? Perhaps you could print out the logo and use it directly (print on clear plastic)? Maybe use a scanner to copy the logo from somewhere and resize it? Just a thought.
    Stan
     
  32. Erst

    Erst Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    Stan!
    I beleive the designing of the logo in the computer isn't any problem. The problem is just how to apply the logo on the dial..
    I was just googling and maybe found a solution: printable watersliding decal paper !! Anyone tried it? One example: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inkjet-Waterslide-Decal-Paper-Sheets/dp/B006DFDTF4

    Br
    Erik
     
  33. sjaffe

    sjaffe Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    I haven't used this specific product, but as a kid built plastic models and used this type of watersliding decal. I think you're on to something! Certainly worth a try.
    Stan
     
  34. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Re: Help with green Gustav Becker (plate1149?) What to do with it?

    I do make waterslide decals for modeling. If it's just black lettering, it's a fairly straightforward process of scanning, clean-up and printing to a special kind of paper, It might be best to scan it into CorelDraw and then convert it to a vector graphic. For this application, I'd go with laserjet paper from some place like papatangodecals.com. I have an ALPS printer that can print white as a background and uses thermal wax and a different kind of paper; But, I'm still trying to get the hang of doing the necessary artwork as it entails a lot of arcane knowledge.
     
  35. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    Re: two tone Becker

    My Gustav Becker I now working on to get back to life. Sadly missing parts. Looking for small hands, rached wheel with with bridge and screw for it and click with screw. If someone have this GB parts for spares or some of them please contact me. Thanks Kamil


    DSC01317.jpg DSC01318.jpg DSC01319.jpg DSC01320.jpg DSC01321.jpg DSC01322.jpg DSC01323.jpg DSC01324.jpg DSC01325.jpg DSC01327.jpg DSC01328.jpg DSC01329.jpg DSC01331.jpg DSC01332.jpg DSC01333.jpg DSC01334.jpg DSC01335.jpg DSC01336.jpg DSC01337.jpg DSC01338.jpg DSC01339.jpg DSC01340.jpg
     
  36. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    #436 etmb61, Sep 7, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
    Re: two tone Becker

    Hi Kamil,

    I believe your pendulum is an early P.H. Hauck, not Becker.

    I do have a spare movement with the ratchet parts, but it's much newer than yours (2269492) so they are not correct replacements.

    Eric
     
  37. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    #437 Kamil Urbanowicz, Sep 7, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
    Re: two tone Becker

    Eric thats great news, I think that only shape of click have changed during time. But hopes the mounting holes are the same. The rached wheel and bridge looks the same for me - but not checked the dimensions yet. Is it any hands that can be replaced (modern made) - maybe in Meadows & Passmore shop. Anyone have some experience?

    The disc of pendulum is solid brass and I really did not noticed that version with beckers clock - but did not work on earlier , but rest of the pendulum looks like a GB parts.
     
  38. Jwright

    Jwright Registered User

    Feb 16, 2013
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    Hi,
    I recently bought this Becker and I have done a sympathetic restore.
    It's serial is 2268734. I like the two tone pendulum and columns.

    I did re-silver the face but it has a couple of marks on it unfortunately.

    Thanks,

    Jon.

    My original account (jwright) doesn't seem to work anymore and I can't reset the password so I had to make another.

    attachment.jpg attachment.jpg

    IMG_1471.jpg IMG_1472.jpg IMG_1473.jpg IMG_1474.jpg IMG_1475.jpg
     
  39. Pat Fitzgerald

    Pat Fitzgerald Registered User
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    Oct 24, 2013
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    Re: Gustav Becker Anniversary

    I recently purchased a GB with serno 149. I am currently woring to clean and restore the clock. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. This is my second resotoration and my first 400 day clock.
     
  40. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    New Becker Model No. 480

    I just received this; the serial number is 1732001, which, from reading earlier posts should date this clock to 1903. I was very happy to get it - until I disassembled the movement and discovered the escape wheel had a broken pivot, and a previous "repairer" had bushed the plates, leaving one bushing proud so that the stump of the broken pivot would fit.:eek: Needless to say, that was a Very Bad Thing, and I'll have to send the wheel out for repair, as re-pivoting is well beyond my skills and equipment. Presumably that same "repairer" was the one who soldered (messily) the anchor pin, leaving gobs of solder around the base. The third problem is that the suspension bracket is bent backwards (towards the movement) a few degrees; I'm not sure how that could have happened, but it should straighten out if I do it carefully.

    The original pendulum is missing, but I have an unrestored spare which, while not an exact match, will serve as a placeholder (it has a smooth edge, not knurled); its serial number (very faintly scratched into the brass) appears to be 25504460, although the "6" is questionable. It will need a new adjustment rod; someone had ingeniously replaced a broken one with a piece of unthreaded steel rod!

    Other than those issues, the clock appears to be in good shape with no damage to any of the beveled glass; the stain on the mahogany has faded a bit on the exterior, but the finish appears to be original and is otherwise good. The front of the case is stamped with a 3 and a 0 (or oval); the latter is horizontal. This case stamp seems to be common for this model, from what I've read. The Becker logo is on the front plate, and "001" is stamped to the right of the hole for the minute arbor.

    Becker Four Glass Model No. 480.jpg Becker Front Plate - Serial 1732001.jpg Becker Back plate - Serial 1732001.jpg Case stamp.jpg Bushing.jpg

    Becker Pendulum.jpg
     
  41. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: two tone Becker

    Kamil, thanks for posting the photos of your GB "project" clock. And thanks to Eric for his offer of parts, even though there is a layout difference between yours and the later models, as best i can tell the parts are still interchangeable.

    Based on the serial number your clock was made in the July-September quarter of 1904. There were relatively few clocks made with the silver dial found with your clock, although the identical dial has been documented as being used from early 1903 to about 1908. A larger diameter dial but of the same design was introduced in 1906 and continued in use up to WWI.

    Your pendulum is from a Ph. Hauck clock as Eric has noted. None of the parts are the same as those used for GB disc pendulums, the correct pendulum would be No. 23A as seen here:
    1703646 P23A Side.jpg One distinguishing characteristic of GB disc pendulums is that the two gallery discs are "always" different diameters, the top being smaller than the bottom. This applies to all their disc pendulums from 1902 to 1932.

    Keep us postes as you proceed with restoration.
     
  42. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Jon, thanks for posting the photos of your clock and the serial number. Based on that number the clock was made near the beginning of 1913, and for info this is the lowest serial number yet documented for this model. However, the standard model has a brass base and not one of turned marble.

    Yours with the two-tone treatment is not at all common, and so far our data show this finish was used only for three or four years from about 1911 to 1914. Also the marble base seems to have been used only for the more elegant GB models, and may have been something added at the retail level but we don't have enough information to determine that point. None of the catalog illustrations we have show a marble base.

    Check your PM messages, I've sent you information about putting your two message board accounts back together as one.
     
  43. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

    May 29, 2006
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    Re: New Becker Model No. 480

    After a very preliminary cleaning of the plates (just a bath in the ultrasonic, no pegging out or mainspring maintenance), the clock is running, albeit without the motion work and hands. I was curious to see if the escape wheel kludge would work, and with a tiny adjustment to the eccentric, it does. The bracket straightened out without an issue, thankfully. It would appear that these early Becker movements are very robust - this one has taken a licking and keeps on ticking!

    That said, I'm still going to send the escape wheel out after the holidays to see if it can be re-pivoted properly, and hopefully will not need to adjust the pallets (I have no way of knowing if the previous "repairer" had done so).

    Best holiday wishes to all!

    Mark
     
  44. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    Jul 6, 2008
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    Needs cleaning, in working condition. The SN is1672706, SN on the pendulum scratched. Clock has black painted, old, wooden base.
    IMG_6556.jpg IMG_6554.jpg IMG_6553.jpg IMG_6546.jpg IMG_6542.jpg
     
  45. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    Another, in oak case. SN 1946247.I couldn't find SN on the pendulum. Pendulum cleaned, the rest is waiting... So many dirty clocks :(
    IMG_6559.jpg IMG_6562.jpg IMG_6563.jpg IMG_6564.jpg IMG_6565.jpg
     
  46. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Piotr, thanks for posting. This is one of the earliest GB Graham escapement models, made in the October-December quarter of 1902, the first year of production for this design. The pedestal style base is quite interesting, this sort of addition isn't often seen.

    The pendulum has turned ogee profile gallery discs instead of the usual square edge design with decorative screws at each pillar. A similar design has been documented that also has turned discs, but they are of a symmetrical bumper strip design, and the pendulum base is the second one used by GB that I have designated No. 23B, so I had designated that version as No. 23BB. This design uses the same pendulum disc as the first one used by GB that I have designated No. 23A, so it might be that yours would be designated No. 23AA. I'll post photos of the No. 23BB later for info.

    Your clock appears to be all original and complete, quite a nice addition to your collection!
     
  47. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Piotr, another very good find. The oak case model No. 480 is found only about one in ten of this case design, the large majority are made of mahogany. Based on the movement serial number your clock was made near the end of 1906. The pendulum appears to be the second version I originally documented as No. 23B. However, from the photos I can't tell for sure. If you could post a side or bottom view of the pendulum that would confirm which one it is.

    The suspension guard is from a later clock. This shortened design with rounded top replaced the first design (introduced in 1905 and is taller with a folded top) in second half 1909, at the same time the upper suspension bracket No. 7 was introduced. The first design guard will not fit under the lowered support platform of the large upper saddle, so the new design was needed. By 1910 only this shortened suspension guard design was used regardless of which upper suspension bracket was used.
     
  48. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    #448 KurtinSA, May 17, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2018
    Just acquired this yesterday from a local chapter member. According to John's information, it appears to be a 1913 model...serial number is 2266375. The back plate should be 1207A...the picture doesn't show it, but the eccentric adjuster is there which makes it different than 1207B. No external markings on the disk. I noticed that a ring of felt is in the groove where the dome fits. Not sure if this was a factory thing or if a previous owner added it.

    Kurt GB1.jpg GB2.jpg GB3.jpg GB4.jpg GB5.jpg

    GB1.jpg GB2.jpg GB3.jpg GB4.jpg GB5.jpg
     
  49. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #449 John Hubby, May 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2018
    Kurt, thanks for posting your "new" GB. You have the date correct, actually near the beginning of 1913. One question about this being early 1913: Is the escape wheel solid or is it crossed out with spokes (may also be drilled out with five or six holes)? Prior to 1913 all GB 400-Day escape wheels were solid; starting about February or March 1913 they began crossing them out or drilling, I presume to conserve brass.

    Your clock has Plate 1207A, first introduced at the beginning of 1909 and used (as well as other plates) continuously to the end of 1922. It appears that all other features of your clock are complete and original including the base, pendulum, suspension guard, upper suspension bracket, pediment and finials, and the "A" design decor piece below the dial. The "K.C.Cº. Germany" inscription at 6:00 on the dial shows your clock was made for the Kuehl Clock Co. of Chicago, IL. GB made clocks for this company from 1907 to 1925.

    For everyone's information, PLEASE TAKE NOTE: PLATE 1207B DOES NOT EXIST. The illustration for this plate has serial number 2097658 and first appeared in the 9th Edition of the Repair Guide published January 1984. This was supposedly drawn from the actual clock but for some unknown reason the eccentric went missing. This clock was sold in Charles Terwilliger Silent Auction 26 held August 1986, and in the description it states the clock has PLATE 1207A as well as having pendulum No. 23E with a matching serial number. To put the final stamp on this I had the opportunity to physically examine the actual clock, and it does have an eccentric thus having Plate 1207A as stated in the auction description. Just put an X across Plate 1207B in your book.
     
  50. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    John -

    Thanks for the confirmation. The escape wheel is solid. Perhaps that means that the clock was built earlier in 1913. From a post of yours in 11/19/2006 showing GB serial numbers from Freiburg, there were 19000 clocks made in 1913. Mine is the 875th in that run. That means that the clock was built around January 17, assuming a linear production of clocks in the month/year.

    Kurt
     

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