Post Your Gustav Becker 400-Day CLocks Here

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by John Arrowood, May 21, 2002.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    21,451
    173
    63
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Obstinate Gustav Becker 400 Day

    Seems odd it ran for 4 months, so i would not suspect escapement problem.
     
  2. Weight Driven

    Weight Driven Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    May 24, 2004
    760
    2
    18
    Country Flag:
    Re: Obstinate Gustav Becker 400 Day

    sounds to me a power issue. I bet if you would it up all the way again it would run for about four months and stop again.
     
  3. crossie

    crossie Registered User

    Nov 3, 2012
    92
    0
    6
    Re: gustav becker registration number.

    Hello Martin
    Thanks for your help dating the clock,it was good of you.
    John Hubby has contacted me and it was just 2years earlier than your date March1926.
    Regards.
    CROSSIE
     
  4. crossie

    crossie Registered User

    Nov 3, 2012
    92
    0
    6
    Re: gustav becker registration number.

    Hello Eric, Thanks for the picture of the back plate reg no as well, brilliant,
    these clocks seem to change hands a lot.
    Yes i certainly would like the pictures from the ebay sale itis much appreciated.
    Regards CROSSIE
     
  5. crossie

    crossie Registered User

    Nov 3, 2012
    92
    0
    6
    Re: Gustav Becker Disc Pendulum

    Hello John,
    Thanks for dating the clock it was much appreciated.
    The NAWACM is a superb organisation,I have learned lots,and everyone gladly shares their knowledge with each other.
    Once again thanks for your help.
     
  6. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    2,204
    91
    48
    Retired Avionics Technician
    Mascoutah, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    John,

    I have the clock now. There are no markings anywhere on the pendulum, but I must say it sure is a complicated design. I'll post pictures later.

    Eric
     
  7. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    2,204
    91
    48
    Retired Avionics Technician
    Mascoutah, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    Here are some pictures of 2463933 for the database. It's missing some minor hardware and the suspension guard, but I can find no major damage and it runs. I'll just clean and oil it for now. I think it looks good for it's age.

    Cheers,

    Eric
     

    Attached Files:

  8. crossie

    crossie Registered User

    Nov 3, 2012
    92
    0
    6
    Re: gustav becker registration number.

    Hello Eric,I have received the pictures,thanks for everything,especially the price,very helpful
    Regards crossie
     
  9. Tony10Clocks

    Tony10Clocks Registered User

    Aug 10, 2010
    1,641
    6
    38
    Northant's
    Country Flag:
    Gustav Becker Find...........

    I found these 2 GB's
    Sadly not the real thing, but just a picture from a google search...
    Hope i'm not infringing any copyright laws.. Couldn't see any anything about copyright.
    But i thought you would like to see..
     

    Attached Files:

  10. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    40,240
    622
    113
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    Iowa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker Find...........

    Just to be sure, it would be good to reference the site, Tony. That would keep everything on the up and up :) Looks like a shot from a national convention maybe.
     
  11. Tony10Clocks

    Tony10Clocks Registered User

    Aug 10, 2010
    1,641
    6
    38
    Northant's
    Country Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker Find...........

    Yes. It's a photo from Ausieclocks at one of there conventions,
     
  12. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker Find...........

    As a matter of interest these two clocks are the same model, No. 503 as per the 1924 GB sale catalog published by member Victor Tang (www.any400day.com). The one to the left was made between 1923 and 1925 based on the back plate and the pendulum; the one on the right made in 1926 or 1927 also using the back plate and pendulum as the identifiers.

    The clock on the left has Plate 1206B with a seven-digit serial number, the plate has been documented only in 1923 and 1924 although there may be examples from 1925. The seven-digit serial number system was discontinued at the end of 1925 so this clock could not have been made later than that. The 4-Ball pendulum with this clock is the first model introduced in late 1915 or early 1916, and was used into the late 1920's.

    The clock on the right has Plate 1149, first documented in 1923 but then used sparingly until 1926, from which time it was used extensively through 1932. The serial number is a short one, from one to four digits long, from what I can see I would guess a 3-digit number indicating the clock was made in 1926 or 1927. The 4-Ball pendulum is the second version made by GB, note the quite different shape of the hood at the top of the pendulum compared to the one in the other clock. This pendulum was first introduced in 1926 and used through 1932. About 70% of the 4-Ball pendulums documented to date in the 1926-1932 period were this second version.
     
  13. Tony10Clocks

    Tony10Clocks Registered User

    Aug 10, 2010
    1,641
    6
    38
    Northant's
    Country Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker Find...........

    Thanks John, again you never fail to amaze...........:thumb:
     
  14. v1sauk

    v1sauk Registered User

    Jan 19, 2012
    80
    5
    8
    Male
    Romania
    Country Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    Hi. This is the latest acquisition. Can you help me with information about it? It's complete?
    Thank you.

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg 10.jpg 11.jpg 12.jpg

    Regards,
    Liviu
     
  15. Karl Burghart

    Karl Burghart Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 30, 2012
    173
    14
    18
    Male
    Retired
    Ballston Spa, NY
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #315 Karl Burghart, Jan 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    Here's 2695421.I finally got around to making the anchor pin and collet. Interesting observation is that the serial number (minus the first two digits) is stamped into the winding arbor.






    007.jpg 008.jpg 009.jpg 010.jpg 011.jpg
     
  16. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    Thanks to all for posting your clocks. I'm combining my comments on the three above, all made between 1921 and 1926 based on their serial numbers.

    Eric, as you say this is a nice clean example and will look just fine "as is" with the movement cleaned and lubed. I mentioned earlier this one has an unusual variant of back plate 1206B made in early 1924.


    Your clock is "mostly" complete but is missing a couple of very important parts. I would call this one a "project clock" due to its having been obviously badly neglected for quite a while. However, it WILL clean up beautifully with some work and a complete service and lubrication of the movement.

    Your clock with movement serial number 142 was made in early 1926 among the first 400-Day clocks completed after Gebrüder Junghans took over the GB business. Literally, this was number 142 from the beginning of production at that time. Another feature is that your clock is the earliest one I have yet documented that has the second version of the GB 4-Ball pendulum. Unfortunately it is missing the regulating mechanism unless you have that and it's not pictured. Here is a photo of a complete one for your reference:
    1108 4-B #2 Pend.jpg Note the center post of this version has a threaded rod above the adjusting "knob" at the bottom. Most of these also have a pointer to indicate how much you have turned the adjusting knob when making a rating adjustment. Also, there is no "set screw" as found on the first version of the GB 4-Ball pendulum. These are not easy to find, I suggest you contact Horolovar first but also search on eBay for a loose pendulum.

    You are also missing the suspension unit and its support post. The post is an easy replacement but the suspension unit needs to be purchased. They are available online from Australia, search eBay for "Gustav Becker Suspension".

    When I first saw the serial number you had written down I though OMG!! Becker made more than 2,510,000 serially numbered clocks before the Junghans takeover mentioned above! However, on close inspection of your photos I see the serial number is actually 2395421, which places it being made in the first quarter of 1921.

    Having the partial serial number stamped on the winding arbor is a little unusual, I've seen that done on a fair number of GB clocks but not all that many. Perhaps a couple dozen out of the hundreds I've worked on over the years.

    You've done a very nice job cleaning up your clock, it's good to see one this complete including the correct "B" decor piece below the dial bezel. I notice the dial is askew, with the 12 sitting about two minutes past the hour. That's an easy fix.

    Thanks again to everyone for posting your clocks. Any questions, please advise.
     
  17. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    2,204
    91
    48
    Retired Avionics Technician
    Mascoutah, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    John,

    If this pendulum was only available on the Junghans made Beckers, would it be reasonable to say that only a few hundred of these were ever produced? I had a hard time just finding a picture of one outside of the repair guide, and I've not yet seen one for sale.

    Eric.
     
  18. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    Eric, my database now has 122 400-Day clocks made in the "Junghans" era 1926-1932. Of these, 31 have the second version of GB's 4-Ball pendulum, almost exactly 25%. Assuming this is representative of production, there would have been something like 1250 made of the total estimated production of 5,000.. Note this doesn't include the first version 4-Ball that have also been documented, 17 examples or another 14% representing 700 more clocks.
     
  19. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    2,204
    91
    48
    Retired Avionics Technician
    Mascoutah, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    John,

    What do you think of this one? It has similar characteristics to the two Becker 34 types.

    I captured this picture from somewhere online, but I can't remember where.

    Eric
     

    Attached Files:

    • Odd.jpg
      File size:
      134.8 KB
      Views:
      30
  20. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    Eric, I recall that pendulum was associated with a Wintermantel clock, but I can't find the photos. The basic construction is essentially the same as the Wintermantel pendulums, but with quite different balls and center post, etc. Here is a typical Wintermantel, pendulum No. 25 in the Repair Guide.

    WRL3 Pend. Side.jpg

    I've always thought these were GB knock-offs . . the adjusting mechanism and other features are very much like the GB first version.
     
  21. v1sauk

    v1sauk Registered User

    Jan 19, 2012
    80
    5
    8
    Male
    Romania
    Country Flag:
    Re: New Gustav Becker

    Thank you. I will try to fix it.
     
  22. crossie

    crossie Registered User

    Nov 3, 2012
    92
    0
    6
    setting the beat

    I have recently purchased a Gustav Becker torsion clock,when i received it it was working,it needed polishing,soi did that i also dismantled it and cleaned all the cogs etc,polished the front and back plates cleaned the pivot holes, and oiled the pivot holes and reassembled it,wound it up and it worked immediately,and continued to run for about 24hrs when i corrected the time speeding the pendulum with the key,next time i looked it had stopped. i have tried to put it in beat
    but with no success,i have no experience of this type of adjuster i checked and it is a indexed adjuster
    can anyone tell me how it works,it would be most appreciated.
    crossie.:confused:
     
  23. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    63
    0
    Calif. USA
    Re: setting the beat

    Hi
    I'm not sure what the reference marks are for, maybe to get a better idea of where
    and how much you've adjusted in any one direction.
    With no tension on the fork, note the location of the pendulum.
    Now with tension, rotate the pendulum one direction and note where
    the pendulum was rotated to when the escapement drops.
    Do the same in the other direction.
    The amount of rotation should be the same for the first level
    of adjustment.
    Now give the pendulum a start with about 180 degree or a little larger
    rotation. Watch where the escapement drops the pallet on each swing
    and note the amount it over swings after each drop.
    Do the fine adjustment to make these over swings balanced.
    Some find it helps to put a degree wheel under the pendulum.
    The amount of over swing is a good indication of the health of the
    clock. 10-20 degrees is good. 5 or less and something is not right.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  24. crossie

    crossie Registered User

    Nov 3, 2012
    92
    0
    6
    Re: setting the beat

    Hi Tinker Dwight,
    I have followed your instructions and it is ticking away merrily,THANK YOU.
    crossie.
     
  25. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    63
    0
    Calif. USA
    Re: setting the beat

    :)
     
  26. Michael Davies

    Michael Davies Registered User

    Nov 29, 2005
    102
    0
    16
    Country Flag:
    Re: incomplete Beckers;help please

    Going through my Spares Box I have found an incomplete GB movement (with the adjustable No8 overhead suspension, but no anchor/escape wheel, and missing guard). This has no GB logos or identification of any sort so was presumably made after the Junghans takeover. To my surprise however it is numbered 2373915 (and has 915 on the front plate)
    Do we know how long they went on using GB numbering without logos before starting the new numbering series?

    Michael Davies
     
  27. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    2,204
    91
    48
    Retired Avionics Technician
    Mascoutah, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #327 etmb61, Jan 31, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
    Re: incomplete Beckers;help please

    Hi Michael,

    I'm thinking there was some inter-mixing of the serial number only plates. Of the Beckers I've recorded 2374244 was the lowest with just numbers but I also have 2441851 recorded as well, and 2422828 was the highest with the medal stamps.

    I'm sure John can shed some better light.

    Eric
     
  28. crossie

    crossie Registered User

    Nov 3, 2012
    92
    0
    6
    Re: Engine turning on Gustav Becker pendulum

    Hello John,

    As promised here are the photographs suspension of my Gustav Becker, which I 2013-01-25-476.jpg 2013-01-25-489.jpg 2013-01-25-491.jpg 2013-02-16-565.jpg am very pleased with.
    I have cleaned and oiled the spring and the wheels and polished the clock and its looking great.
    It was running 4 minutes slow over a 24 hour period with the pendulum set at its fastest setting,
    so I thinned down a :114mm suspension wire and its now keeping good time.
    How I got it in beat I do not know as there is nothing I could regulate to alter the over swings to get it in beat,i got it in beat by moving one of
    the weights on the pendulum over towards the side that was not as far as the other side and that seems to have worked, but I do not think your meant to do it that way.
    The photographs when enlarged give good detail of the saddle area, perhaps someone can help. I would like to know how to set it in beat using the saddle.

    Many thanks Crossie
     
  29. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Engine turning on Gustav Becker pendulum

    Crossie, thanks for your inquiry and posting the photos of your GB 400-Day here. The back plate is Plate 1207A, and based on the serial number it was made in the January-March quarter of 1921.

    I see from the other threads you have posted that information was provided how to set the beat for this model, as you already mention moving one of the weights further in or out really won't do the job and also can cause problems from the pendulum wobbling.

    I will be merging your other threads into this one so we can have all that info together for our archives.
     
  30. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: Gustav Becker Disc Pendulum

    Martin and all, I use the same criteria for my Junghans-era GB clock manufacturing dates as for all my serial number dating research. This includes presentation inscription dates, patent dates, dated catalog and trade advertisement info, date stamps on movements, articles from contemporary trade magazines, etc. For the Junghans era I have been able to confirm that a new serial number series beginning with "1" was started for at least four different types of clocks manufactured in Freiburg including 400-Day, spring driven Westminster clocks (all types are combined), weight driven hall clocks, and weight driven wall clocks. A similar series was also started for Braunau for their wall clocks. Also, that for 400-Day clocks, the series ended in late 1932 when the Freiburg factory was closed at serial number around 5000. After that, no GB design movements were made for any kind of clock but Junghans and HAC movements stamped with the GB anchor logo were made and sold as GB clocks from 1933 through 1940. The Junghans design movements all have date stamps but only a few of the HAC have that feature.

    I have recently found that in fact the new series for all these types made in Freiburg and Braunau started earlier than I had previously determined. My earlier data indicated the change occurred at the beginning of 1926; I now have conclusive proof it started no later than late second quarter 1925 (June). The Junghans transition started in late 1924 or early 1925 when talks between the two companies were started, and it appears that GB made concessions to Junghans early on regarding the use of serial numbering systems (and possibly dating of clocks with no serial numbers) but held out on the use of certain GB logos and trademarks such as the circular GB anchor logo, the Medaille d'Or, and the word "SILESIA". None of these were permitted on clocks or in advertising after about mid-1925 even though the commercial "merger" had not yet occurred. In fact the final merger didn't happen until 1927, but for all manufacturing date purposes it can be shown to commence by mid-1925.

    This will require a revision of both my pre-merger and post-merger serial number databases, causing a shift of more clocks being made from the end of WWI to mid-1925 and fewer from mid-1925 to end 1932. From all that I know right now it appears this will be the "final" adjustment for the major dating list, although there may yet be some fine tuning as I review all the data from 1850 to 1940. I hope to have this done within a few weeks and will be posting the results here and on the "Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here" thread in the Clocks General Forum.
     
  31. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: incomplete Beckers;help please

    Michael, thanks for posting this info. Actually the movement with no logo has no association with the Junghans takeover. These were first made at mid-first half 1920 in a special order for Andreas Huber and supplied as movements only. Three batches were made, one each in 1920, 1922, and 1923 totaling around 500 movements, all the ones documented to date are omplete movements including suspension but no other parts. The last ones produced had the Huber Uhren logo stamped at the upper left, the earlier ones were blank. I have 16 of these in my data, in all instances they were assembled by Huber using typical bases, dials, and pendulums (No. 33) that have been found with Huber clocks.
     
  32. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: incomplete Beckers;help please

    Eric, somehow I missed your and Michael's posts last month so this is a late response. As I've mentioned already in my reply to Michael these movements were made as a special order for Andreas Huber. I don't have either of the two you mention here included in my database; do you have photos for either or both? Would be much appreciated!
     
  33. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    2,204
    91
    48
    Retired Avionics Technician
    Mascoutah, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: incomplete Beckers;help please

    John,
    Yes I have a couple of pictures for each of these. I'll forward them along.

    Eric
     
  34. whatgoesaround

    whatgoesaround Registered User

    Jan 22, 2008
    385
    14
    18
    Male
    science teacher
    south carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    two tone Becker

    I have had this clock for awhile and was just getting around to working on it. When I originally got it, I thought that perhaps it was not all original because of the two different colors. I knew that the pendulum had the edge that you see on the Beckers and on turning it over was pleased to see that the serial number matched the clock (2268667, Mr. Hubby). Obviously, the brass makes up one color, but the other found on the columns and pendulum base are kind of like a polished pewter color. I noticed, as I hope shows in the pictures,that where the small weights were on the pendulum, the brass shows through. So does this mean it is some kind of blackened steele? So questions: how odd is it to have a clock colored like this from Becker? What would its date be (I am sure it is not one of his older ones given the peep holes to see the escapement and the screws instead of pins to hold the movement)? I guess, most importantly, if I can see brass showing where the small weights were on the pendulum, how should I go about cleaning this so as to keep the coloration intact? Thanks in advance for the help I always receive here.
     

    Attached Files:

  35. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 20, 2007
    1,036
    4
    38
    IT analyst
    Fairford, England
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #335 lesbradley, Jun 24, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
    Re: two tone Becker

    I have not seen a GB with this finish, definitely out of the ordinary, but looks original. I guess the pillars and pendulum base are lacquered brass. Depends how far you want to go with the restore. A lot of lacquer finishes of this age change quite dramatically over the years, the colour might have been substantially different originally. I am sure John will enlighten us. Manufacture date in my records is mid 1920.
     
  36. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    WGA, thanks for posting the photos of your GB and your inquiry. The serial number shows your clock was made about 1st quarter 1913 just before GB received their patent in March that year on the adjustable upper suspension assembly, illustrated as No. 8 in the Repair Guide. Les, I need to update my chart in the "Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here" forum, I've recently adjusted all the data from 1913 through 1925 based on new information regarding when GB made the switch from their traditional serial numbering system to the Junghans numbers, that occurred from six to seven months earlier than previously thought.
    A number of clocks of this particular model evidently were originally made with a two-tone finish. I now have seven in my database including yours, four still have most of their original finish but the others appear to have been polished back to the brass or were made without the two-tone finish.

    One difference from other colored finishes is that for these clocks it was done by using chemicals and not colored lacquer. There are a number of chemicals that can be used to turn brass various colors including red, blue, green, brown, and black all in varying shades (see Science Company). These finishes only need to be waxed or covered with clear lacquer for permanent color. We don't have a catalog illustration from which to find more information, but it was apparently done with a deep bronze or black finish. Here is another example made in 1912:
    2249414 Front View.jpg Note that this clock still has most of the black finish on the pendulum disc but the pillars are lighter in color more like the clock we are discussing, and the dial bezel is almost a copper color. I believe the lighter colors are the result of being cleaned and polished as that will definitely remove the finish. The clock shown here is the first one of this design in my database, GB apparently made this design from 1912 to 1921 based on the examples I have documented thus far (serial number range about 2249xxx to 2395xxx).

    To protect the finish on your clock if you wish to retain it, just use hot soapy water for cleaning. Don't use any kind of polish on those parts. However, you should polish the base and other parts to restore the clock. I presume you have the adjusting rod and weights for the disc pendulum? Keep us posted as you proceed with the restoration.
     
  37. whatgoesaround

    whatgoesaround Registered User

    Jan 22, 2008
    385
    14
    18
    Male
    science teacher
    south carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    Thanks, Mr. Bradley and Mr. Hubby. I will definitely not polish the pewter-colored parts, since I really like the finsih being somewhat uncommon, but do intend on polishing the rest. I have thoiught of spraying a clear gloss polyeruthane to protect these parts from any further lightening, oxidation, or whatever. However, would there be any chemical interactions, if I did this? Perhaps the lacquer is still sufficiently left that this would be overkill, anyhow? I do have the rod and weights to the pendulum, however, the rod is broken right in the center. Without welding capabilities, is there some way to join the two halves? Thanks, also, for the date; it was earlier than I was expecting.
     
  38. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    I recommend you wax the colored parts rather than trying to use lacquer. You can also wax the brass parts with excellent results regarding resistance to tarnishing. The main thing is they all need to be squeaky clean when you start, apply three or more coats allowing to dry well between each coat. Use a high carnauba content wax such as Renaissance Wax, Butcher's Bowling Alley Lane Wax, or one of the "show car" waxes such as Mother's.

    I suggest you go to a local jeweler to have the adjustment rod parts silver soldered or brazed back together. It won't cost much and should last for a good while. Another option (I've done this) is to drill each of the broken ends about 6 mm deep with a hole about 60% of the diameter, then tin a steel pin of the correct diameter and about 11.5 mm length with Tix solder, flood the holes with flux and insert the pin into both ends (should be a force fit), heat the part with a small torch until you see liquid solder run out the joint and you're done. Be sure to clamp the assembly from both ends to keep the flux from blowing apart the joint.
     
  39. whatgoesaround

    whatgoesaround Registered User

    Jan 22, 2008
    385
    14
    18
    Male
    science teacher
    south carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    Thanks, as always, Mr. Hubby. I am sure the pictures show I have alot of polishing ahead of me, but the brighter brass will contrast so much better than the dirty and dark brass presently there.
     
  40. jkfabulos

    jkfabulos Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 21, 2001
    895
    15
    18
    Re: two tone Becker

    In the NAWCC Mart there is an add for laser welding of very small clock parts including hands. I have seen this done on larger parts and it is really quite something to see the finished parts with little or no signs of the weld. It should work well for this repair.
    I am in no way connected to this person and am offering this for information only.
    Fulkerson Jewelers and Clock Shop
    4141 Monroe St
    Toledo OH 43606
    Tel 419-472-4421
    Email franz@fulkersonjewlers.com
     
  41. whatgoesaround

    whatgoesaround Registered User

    Jan 22, 2008
    385
    14
    18
    Male
    science teacher
    south carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    I am attaching photos of my clock, cleaned up. The colors contrast much better now. I still have to fix up a suspension spring and start thinning it down to size. If I remember correctly, the Beckers are about .0042, so you have to thin a .0045.

    Thanks jkfabulos, I will email the Fulkerson shop and find out what they offer. My local jewelers would not guarantee that it would work and I thought they were charging more than it was worth. He also recommended I find a machinist to make one, instead. It did not sound so promising, so I appreciate the lead.
     

    Attached Files:

  42. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    WGA, great job!! Stunning, in fact. When I saw the first one of these I thought someone had been playing around with the chemicals you can use to color brass, but now having seen several it is clear to me this was likely how these were made from the get-go.
     
  43. whatgoesaround

    whatgoesaround Registered User

    Jan 22, 2008
    385
    14
    18
    Male
    science teacher
    south carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    Thanks for the compliment, Mr. Hubby; it made my day. The results on this one really solidified the choice between leaving the patina and seeing the age or making it like it left the factory for me. In its original condition, I would never have appreciated the contrasting colors near as much. Which brings up something I began to wonder about while polishing: how was the brass finished at the original factory at that time?
     
  44. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    The factory finish for all the brass parts was lacquer from all the info I have read about manufacturing these clocks at the time. However, 100 years of polishing by owners, or exposure to the elements, has basically caused the original lacquer to disappear so that makes them relatively easy to polish. If you observe carefully when taking one apart you can sometimes find the original finish under the movement support pillar fittings and a few other places.

    The problem with re-lacquering is that the average hobbyist doesn't have the equipment to do the same kind of job as the factory. For example, unless you are quite proficient it is very easy to get an orange peel finish using spray lacquer, and working with brushing lacquer takes high quality brushes, lacquer thinned to the proper consistency, warm parts, etc. That's why I have switched to using high carnauba content wax; that's what the museums use for conservation of brass and other metal parts as well as wood and it is easily applied. It also lasts nearly as long as your average spray lacquer job and is much easier to re-do.
     
  45. whatgoesaround

    whatgoesaround Registered User

    Jan 22, 2008
    385
    14
    18
    Male
    science teacher
    south carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    I was also interested in how the brass was polished. While I was using a polishing agent (Maas) I was thinking that they probably did not have something like that; would it indeed be possible that we are able today to produce a higher luster than it originally had?
     
  46. Jwright

    Jwright Registered User

    Feb 16, 2013
    28
    0
    0
    Re: two tone Becker

    I also have a two tone Becker serial 2249914 with only the pendulum having the different colour. I haven't got round to cleaning it yet, their may be traces of the original colouring on the pillars.


    photo.jpg

    John.
     
  47. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    The factories of that time generally used polishing compounds such as rouge, chalk, talc, and the like and actually those can produce as bright a luster as any of our modern chemically based polishes. The principle difference is that modern brass polishes have a chemical component that reacts with copper and zinc oxides, removing them from the surface of the brass. However, virtually all of them especially the paste polishes, still include some kind of abrasive material such as talc or pumice that provides the abrasive action which actually smoothes the brass surface.
     
  48. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    12,075
    163
    63
    The Woodlands, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker

    John, thanks for posting! I don't recall seeing the "standard" model finished with the two-tone colors, however being from the same period as whatgoesaround's clock it seems logical that some could have been made. There were other companies, most notably Badische, who sold 400-Day clocks with some brass parts such as the pendulums, support pillars, movement plates, and crown all colored a rich navy blue. There were variants with only some of those parts colored but they are all eye-catching.

    It will be appreciated if you could post more photos showing the pendulum, back of the movement, etc so we can see fully what you have.

    To keep our Gustav Becker info together, I am moving this thread to the "Post Your Gustav Becker 400-Day Clocks Here" thread.
     
  49. whatgoesaround

    whatgoesaround Registered User

    Jan 22, 2008
    385
    14
    18
    Male
    science teacher
    south carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: two tone Becker


    Thanks, Mr. Hubby. So, depending on one's point of view, it is comforting or disconcerting to know that in over a hundred year's time, we really aren't doing that much differently.
     
  50. Jwright

    Jwright Registered User

    Feb 16, 2013
    28
    0
    0
    Re: two tone Becker

    Sorry for taking so long to reply but I work away from home allot.
    Here are some more photos of my two tone Becker.

    photo1.jpg photo2.jpg photo3.jpg photo4.jpg photo5.jpg

    So it's a Becker then?

    John
     

Share This Page