Post your GRIVOLAS 400 Day clocks here

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by any400day, Oct 26, 2009.

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  1. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    Grivolas SN A.8.-698-4 (fixed anchor pallets)
    Brass Bow front 4 glass case 11"Height X 7½”Width X 6”Depth
    Bottom of pendulum marked "698"
     

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  2. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Grivolas A.6.111-0
    Bow-fronted, champleve, brass and onyx 4 glass case.
     

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  3. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Vic, your clock is Model No. 258 from the Grivolas 1910 catalog page 10, exact match. This is the first one I have in my database for this model. Thanks for posting!
     
  4. Weight Driven

    Weight Driven Registered User
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    Would love to have one to post.
     
  5. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    CLOCKS 003.jpg

    CLOCKS 005.jpg

    CLOCKS 006.jpg

    DSC_0032.JPG G'Day all, I have been collecting 400 day clocks for a number of years and have so many of the critters that I have had to put the brakes on as far as buying goes. These days I am only interested in buying grivolas clocks as they are a first class and a dream to work on.
    Included in the pictures of the clocks is one very sad looking grivolas as was found, it is the in the centre of the domed clocks and is quite an attractive clock, the face and the base is different to the other utilia clocks in the lineup and is not marked utilia as the other clocks are above the winder hole. I would like to express my appreciation of this site as it has been a great source of information over the years and helped more than once. Than you all KenL. ps how do I place these attachments to the bottom of my post ? icon11.gif
     
  6. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Considering where you live, that is a fine collection of Grivolas to have obtained. I have only encountered half a dozen in two years of serious collecting, and all but one of those came from the same collection. I presume Utilia is/was an importer/exporter who specialised in your region. Did you find all the clocks down under, or close by?

    If you write your post, then "manage attachments", the pictures should end up after the text.
     
  7. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ken, first of all a big welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and in particular to our 400-Day Forum! You have a great collection of Grivolas!

    It will be very much appreciated if you could post photos of the back plates of all your clocks and the bottoms of the pendulums so we can document them in our Grivolas database. Also list the full serial number for each movement and if there is a serial number stamped on the bottom of the pendulum.

    Also, I see the three in 4-Glass cases are all the "German" Grivolas, having German movements and pendulums. There will be a star and Grivolas serial number stamped in the left edge of the movement back plates (you can see them through the side panel of the case), and this number may also be stamped in the bottom of the pendulums as well as the serial number of the German movement.

    I will look forward to seeing this info, it is very seldom we get to see this many clocks all at once that aren't already in the database.
     
  8. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    #8 KenL, Nov 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2009
    A.10-2051-0 Model 322, c. 1910
    GRIVOLAS  C C 001.jpg GRIVOLAS CRYSTAL COLUMNS 002.jpg GRIVOLAS CRYSTAL COLUMNS 003.jpg GRIVOLAS CRYSTAL COLUMNS 004.jpg

    B.12-3538-4 Model 344, c. 1912
    GRIVOLAS 10 C 001.jpg GRIVOLAS 10 C 007.jpg GRIVOLAS 10c 002.jpg GRIVOLAS 10c 004.jpg

    Hi John. Mate sorry it has taken so long to reply to your request for more information on these clocks but here we are with the first lot with more to follow. To Les Bradly, All of the clocks came from overseas. I am watching one on auction now and it might just end up in my collection. KenL
     
  9. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    #9 KenL, Nov 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2009
    More grivolas.

    A.10-2438-0 Model 206, c. 1910
    GRIVOLAS  4 002.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 003.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 004.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 005.jpg

    C.13-4600-5 Model 206, c. 1913
    GRIVOLAS  4 007.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 008.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 009.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 010.jpg

    Back soon with more. Ken.

    C.14-5571-5 Glass Dome Model, c. 1914
    GRIVOLAS  4 014.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 015.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 016.jpg

    B.11-2897-1 Glass Dome Model, c. 1911
    GRIVOLAS  4 018.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 019.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 020.jpg

    C.13-4795-2 Glass Dome Model, c. 1913
    GRIVOLAS  4 023.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 024.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 025.jpg

    Grivolas No.C.14-5571-5; a timesavers pendulum fitted, as far as I know the other two are genuine. Please correct me if I am wrong. More to come. Ken.
     
  10. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Did you acquire any of your clocks from Gardiner Houlgate, near Bath England? Apart from the one I bought they are the only ones I have seen.
     
  11. John Hubby

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    #11 John Hubby, Nov 10, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
    Ken, thanks very much for posting your clock photos. I have "cleaned up" the two postings so they are a bit easier to follow, in any event you have put together a really outstanding collection of Grivolas. It turns out I've documented some of these from when they were with previous owners or when they were for sale, but your photos have added a lot to what was previously available. I'm going to list your clocks by serial number sequence and provide some comments regarding each one for your info and that of our other users.

    A.10-2051-0 Model 322, c. 1910
    This clock is IMO the best of the lot. It was made in 1st quarter 1910, and appears in the Grivolas 1910 catalog as Model No. 322, the description stating the case is of green bronze (bronze d'art) with cut crystal columns. This is the first one of these I've seen and a real beauty. The matching serial number on the pendulum shows it is completely original, but one other feature makes it even more interesting and is definitely original: The suspension spring. The spring is the two-piece spring advertised in the 1910 catalog as "temperature compensating" and in fact it truly is. It was covered by the Guillaume 1904 patent using Invar for part of the spring and an appropriate length of steel for the other part. Invar torsional modulus increases with temperature, while that for steel decreases. The length of each part is calculated to exactly offset the change in modulus for the other and thus result in no change in rate with temperature. I have personally tested one of these springs versus Horolovar springs and they are equal in performance. So, you have an historically important suspension spring with this clock, be sure to take good care of it.

    A.10-2438-0 Model 206, c. 1910
    This one was made in 4th quarter 1910. The case for this clock is actually taller than the one used for Model No. 206 in the Grivolas 1910 catalog, and it has a molded brass top instead of being flat. However, an interesting variant to Model 206. The pendulum extension is used with a number of similar models having taller than usual cases. The pendulum itself is an original Grivolas, but without having a serial number not possible to say it came with the clock, although quite a few were made with no information on the bottom.

    B.11-2897-1 Glass Dome Model, c. 1911
    This clock is not illustrated in the Grivolas 1910 catalog, but quite a few of this design have been documented mostly made in 1912 or later. Your clock was made in 2nd quarter 1911. I documented this clock a couple of years ago via a previous owner, and it was in very poor condition at the time. It has been completely refurbished since then and now a very attractive piece. Also it did not have a pendulum at that time, so the one with the clock now is not original to the clock even though it is an authentic Grivolas pendulum.

    B.12-3538-4 Model 344, c. 1912
    One of the fanciest gilt brass case Grivolas, this clock was made at the beginning of 1912. More than a dozen have been documented to date, with a large variety of dials and covering from 1906 to 1912. Your clock has the highest serial number yet recorded for this model. The pendulum is an authentic Grivolas, but the serial number 1076 stamped in the bottom shows it started life with another Grivolas clock. The serial number of that clock is A.9-1076-5 made in 1909, but at this time I don't have it in my data.

    C.13-4600-5 Model 206, c. 1913
    The case for this clock is another variant of the Model 206, being taller but otherwised exactly the same as the most simple of all the crystal regulator style cases used by Grivolas. Your clock was made in 3rd quarter 1913. The pendulum is an original Grivolas having decor to the sides as shown in No. 3 in the 1910 catalog. It can't be said conclusively that this pendulum started life with your clock since there is no serial number on it, but it is most definitely appropriate. The pendulum extension would have been original equipment. Note that this clock also has the Guillaume patent temperature compensating suspension spring described with the first clock above. To see two of these in one collection is rare indeed!

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One question regarding this clock and the two following: In all of the "C" design back plates documented to date, a classic Geneva cross stop-work mechanism has been documented to be fitted to the cover plate of the mainspring barrel. I will appreciate if you could check your clocks and advise if that can be seen. One thing, I have only found two out of 19 clocks documented to date that still had the cross and cam in place, but all of them have had a stamped circle on the cover where they were originally mounted. You can see the convex stamped shape from the side of the movement using a strong torch.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    C.13-4795-2 Glass Dome Model, c. 1913
    Another of the simple but elegant glass dome models, this one was made in 3rd quarter 1913. The dial for this one and the next, plus a number of other clocks made in 1913 and 1914 have the "Utilia" name on the dial, many using the same exact dial as yours. I have seen some references to this name but have not yet identified the company to which it belongs. The pendulum is an authentic Grivolas and appropriate for the clock. The lack of a serial number at this point is not unusual, it appears Grivolas stopped putting the serial numbers on the pendulums about mid-1912.

    C.14-5571-5 Glass Dome Model, c. 1914
    One more of the glass dome models, this one made in 3rd quarter 1914 not long before Grivolas ceased production. As can be seen the dial for this one and the previous clock are identical. The pendulum is a reproduction made by Timesavers as already mentioned.

    Once again, congratulations on your collection!
     
  12. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    Re: The ultimate Grivolas

    I'm not sure if this will come up, without being registered... but here is one, that sold at Tom Harris auctions in October.

    It made $6250 + 10%.

    I knew the two people who wanted it...and wondered who wanted it more.

    I missed it a few years earlier at the same auction house and had talked to the winner over the years and thought I might be able to buy it... but it never happened.

    http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6716138

    Ralph
     
  13. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    Re: The ultimate Grivolas

    I'm not sure if this will come up, without being registered... but here is one, that sold at Tom Harris auctions in October.

    It made $6250 + 10%.

    I knew the two people who wanted it...and wondered who wanted it more.

    I missed it a few years earlier at the same auction house and had talked to the winner over the years and thought I might be able to buy it... but it never happened.

    http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6716138

    Ralph
     
  14. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ralph, I copied your post from "The Ultimate Grivolas" thread to this one for record purposes.

    This clock, serial number A.10-2445-7, was made in 4th quarter 1910 and is a Model 344 as shown in the 1910 Grivolas catalog. A very nice example, I will ask Harris for permission to post the photos here from the auction.
     
  15. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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  16. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ralph, thanks for posting. This one is a Model 325 as illustrated in the Grivolas 1910 catalog, however the base is the same as Model 330. So far, this is the second one of these documented and both have the same features including the base. The serial number A.10-2029-5 indicates the clock was made at the beginning of 1910, and is only one digit higher than the earliest one (a Model 305) I have recorded for 1910.

    The Model 305 is an elaborate clock with either white or green marble base and top having cut lead crystal columns and gilt brass decor, that was many times sold with matching urns as a garniture set.
     
  17. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    German grivolas
    D.R.P No 144688
    U.S.P No 751680
    s/no 13186
    Number on side of back plate 1492*
    The pendulum for this clock has had material removed from the underside
     
  18. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    #18 KenL, Nov 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2009
    German grivolas.

    D.R.P No 144688.
    U.S.P No 751680.
    s/no 13186.
    The number on the side of the rear plate is 1492*
    The pendulum for this clock has had material removed from the underside, the remaining portion of the numbers appear to be the lower part of the numbers 13186.
    GRIVOLAS  4 003.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 004.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 005.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 007.jpg

    Ken L.
     
  19. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    #19 KenL, Nov 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2009
    Serial number 6039
    Pendulum number 2610
    Number on the side of rear back plate has the star before not after the
    number. *2610.
    GRIVOLAS  4 001.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 002.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 003.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 004.jpg
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Last one.
    S/No 57366.
    Side of rear plate 2445*
    Pendulum number 2445
    GRIVOLAS  4 001.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 002.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 003.jpg GRIVOLAS  4 004.jpg

    Ken L.
     
  20. ivancooke

    ivancooke Registered User

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    Grivolas I acquired lately.


    I was attracted by the finish of the case, and the gilt work on the pendulum.


    Serial No. B.12 - 3569 - 8.



    Ivan.
     

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  21. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ken, this is a new one in my database. It is a Model 206 4-Glass crystal regulator, the Ph. Hauck movement was made about 3rd quarter 1906 based on the movement serial number, the clock itself assembled about nine months later by Grivolas based on their serial number 1492. Too bad someone chose the hard way to adjust the timing instead of getting a stronger suspension spring.
     
  22. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ken, thanks again for posting. I already had both of these clocks in my data from previous owners but your photos have added some detail not available earlier.

    The JUF movement in the second one (57366) was made about 1st quarter 1908 and assembled within the next few months by Grivolas based on their serial number 2445. It appears that Grivolas continued assembly of the "German" versions of their clocks out to the end of 1908 and possibly into early 1909.

    The serial number of the JUF movement in the first clock is 60390, dating it to mid-1908. Also, if you will check the Grivolas serial number very closely I believe it is actually 2510 and not 2610. There appears to be an overstamp or flaw in the die used for the number 5, but there are two reasons it can't be 2610: First is that I have that clock also recorded, with a very clear stamping. Second is that the movement serial number would be out of sequence if the 2610 is used.

    Two very nice clocks!!
     
  23. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    John, I have included Two photographs of the Grivolas serial number on the side of the JUF movement number 60390, It certainly looks like *2610 .

    I am looking forward to your comments regarding these numbers.

    Thank you for the information on my clocks, much appreciated.

    Ken L
    GRIVOLAS  serial number 002.jpg

    GRIVOLAS  serial number 008.jpg
     
  24. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ken, thanks for posting the clear photos, no question the number is *2610 on the movement back plate. The photo you posted of the pendulum serial number isn't that clear but presume on close inspection it is also the same number.

    What this does is prove that exceptions are the rule, so I've entered it in the data as *2610.
     
  25. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ivan, thanks for posting. This particular clock is Model 243 from the 1910 Grivolas 400-Day Catalog, and the first one of this particular model I have documented. The serial number shows the clock was made in the 1st quarter of 1912.

    This clock exemplifies the quality that Grivolas put into their products. As a group, and perhaps I've said before, these fine timepieces represent the best of the genre. I've followed this clock for about three years as it has passed from hand to hand, really pleased to see it's now with someone who truly appreciates what it is.
     
  26. alovir

    alovir Registered User

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    My clock

    Hello

    I saw this clock last month

    I bought it.

    Looked at google, Searched for Grivolas.

    Did not find much.

    But this forum.

    Now I'm here, and ask

    Who can tell me anything about this clock?

    Thanks for all the answers.
     

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  27. Ken M

    Ken M Registered User

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    Re: My clock

    Nice clock! Welcome to the board :D I'm no help, I can't afford that kind of clock, but you'll get lot's of proplr here that do....nice clock....
     
  28. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    #28 shutterbug, Mar 9, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
    Re: My clock

    Hmmm - French? Hopefully John will have some insights. Looks early 20th century though.

    According to the Horolovar Book, Grivolas (C. Grivolas, which explains the trademark) was a manufacturer before WWI. France (no surprise).
     
  29. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: My clock

    Alovir, first of all welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and especially to our 400-Day Forum. Thanks for posting your inquiry and photo!

    You have a clock made by Claude Grivolas of Paris, France, shown in his 1910 catalog as Model No. 232. Grivolas was the only known French maker of 400-Day clocks, and manufactured them from 1906 to 1914.

    If you would post a clear photo of the back of the movement we can provide the exact manufacturing date as well as movement model of your clock. Be sure to also provide the exact writing for the serial number. Also, please show a photo of the bottom of the pendulum, usually there are stampings there that may include a serial number. If there is a number and it matches the one on the back plate of the clock movement, then it is likely the clock and pendulum are original to each other.

    I also will be merging this thread with the "Post Your Grivolas 400-Day Clocks Here" thread so we can maintain all the Grivolas clocks together for future reference.
     
  30. alovir

    alovir Registered User

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    Hello all and John
    Did not Know how to answer
    Hope this way is right

    Here are the other fotos of my clock

    Found no number on the bottom of the pendulum
    I think this means it is not original?
     

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  31. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Congratulations on your find. It's a fine clock and would be a welcome addition to almost any collection.

    The serial number confirms its manufacture to the first half of 1906, the first year in which these clocks were produced.

    I also have my doubts on the originality if the pendulum. For a clock of that period I would have expected the disc to have a sharp top edge rather than the rounded edge.
    It is still appears to be a genuine Grivolas pendulum, but may have not started life with this clock.

    I would also expect the bottom plate of the pendulum to have just the number 267 stamped on it, and possibly the internal components as well. It is probably worth lifting the bottom cover to check on this.

    I would also expect to see two, not four, screw holes in the bottom disc. These were for the fitment of fixed internal weights, in addition to the adjustable ones. The early clocks I have seen only had two fixed weights, not four.
     
  32. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Alovir, thanks for posting the excellent photos of your clock. Les provided the correct year, since about 500 clocks were produced that year I would put it having been made in 3rd quarter 1906.

    The movement is the first version of the type "A" design, without the inspection ports that would be located just below the removable anchor arbor pivot bridge. A few 1906 clocks had this feature and it is shown in a 1906 French patent, but it did not appear as a normal feature until 1908. There have been no Grivolas movements documented to have been made in 1907 (their serial numbers would be "Nº.A.7.-XXX-Y"), I believe that had to do with a patent dispute about the inspection hole feature with either Kienzle or Würth or both. During this hiatus, Grivolas purchased German movements initially from Ph. Hauck and later from JUF, assembled them in French cases, and assigned his own serial number in addition to the one already stamped by the German makers. However, that's another story.

    I don't think the pendulum is original based on the lack of a serial number and also that it has eight weight securing screw holes instead of four as found on the earlier clocks. There "were" some early clocks that had the rounded corner disc, all of those documented to date have a serial number matching the clock movement. The large majority of clocks made in 1906 and until the middle of 1908 had the square edge disc, after that the round edge design predominated even though Grivolas was still showing the square edge disc as the only design available (except for the rare mercury compensating pendulum) in his 1910 catalog.

    Overall you have a very nice example of the Grivolas Model No. 232.
     
  33. alovir

    alovir Registered User

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    Forgot to say thanks to Les and John.

    Now and here I say thanks.

    Is this the right way and place to do?

    Who is able to delete this message when it
    is no longer needed?

    I think it would waste space, or am I wrong?

    Les
    Had no time to look into the pendulum, but I will
    do this next days.
     
  34. rogermass

    rogermass New Member

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    Here's a really nice one I acquired abroad.
    http://www.rogerdavis.com/pics/grivolassm.jpg
     
  35. ivancooke

    ivancooke Registered User

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    Congratulations Roger.
    a nice find.
    Looks like new.



    Ivan
     
  36. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Roger, first of all a warm welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and in particular to our 400-Day clock Forum. Great clock, I've only seen one other like yours. Could you post a photo of the back of the movement? That will provide what is needed (serial number) to date your clock and also other info. Also, in most instances these spherical pendulums have a matching serial number stamped inside on the parts of the disc. To explain, these are a standard Grivolas disc pendulum but with hemisphere top and bottom parts. A closeup of the dial will also be appreciated.
     
  37. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    This is the latest clock to join the Grivolas lineup in my collection, just a small four glass, and as can be seen in the photograph it is 34mm shorter than the clock on the right.

    The clock is different to all other four glass clocks I have twelve in all not including this one in that it has one large single mount for the bezel, no side mounts from the bezel to the uprights.

    At first I thought that the mechanism might not be in its original case but when cleaning the brass I noticed that each part of the case was stamped with the number 3 as is the inside of the backplate, so I guess it is original.

    So that's it, nothing outstanding, just a little different.


    No B.11.-2925-2 no serial number on the pendulum.

    Ken L.
     

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  38. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    Ken,
    Nice collection you have there.

    I have a Model No. 290 that only have the top large single mount for the bezel without any side mounts. That makes two which means your clock is original.

    SN B.11-3148-0

    Vic
     

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  39. KenL

    KenL Registered User

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    #39 KenL, Jun 22, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
    Vic, Thank you for the pictures of your clock, it is a nice unit and would be a welcome addition to anyones collection.

    Ken L
     
  40. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ken and Vic, thanks for posting both of your clocks. That's two more for the Grivolas database. :thumb:
     
  41. MARIE JOSE

    MARIE JOSE New Member

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    Re: My clock

    I am also interested in Grivolas clocks as I have a beautiful one which I inherited from my father (who is Claude Grivolas's grandson). I will post a picture of it shortly. The other clock like the one I have, is in a museum in Paris. I would be interested to know the kind of value to expect, although I have no intention of selling it.
     
  42. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Re: My clock

    Yeah, we'd love to see it! MB rules don't allow discussing value though ... which as you have noted has little to do with worth anyway :)
     
  43. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: My clock

    Marie Jose, firstly welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for your mentioning the Grivolas clock you now have and its provenance. We will very much look forward to seeing photos of the clock, and in particular finding the serial number of the movement. I have done a lot of research on Grivolas clocks over the past 15 years and have thus far documented more than 250 examples. From that data we have developed a comprehensive summary of the models offered for sale, the technical details, and dates of manufacture. It may be possible to provide you the model number and other information once we see the photos of your clock.

    Also, I wish to ask whether you have any literature or other information about the Grivolas company or their clocks such as sales catalogs, advertising material, etc. This kind of material is invaluable in providing clear historical references from which we can know more about these marvellous clocks. If you wish to reply privately about this question, you can click on my user name at the upper left corner of this message, from that a drop-down menu will enable you to send me an email or to send a private message (PM).

    Once again, a warm welcome and we look forward to seeing the photos of your clock.
     
  44. svenedin

    svenedin Registered User

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    Hello Everybody,

    I hope that you can help me with an enquiry about a Grivolas clock. An acquaintance of mine says he has a Grivolas clock for sale but he hasn't shown me any pictures yet.

    This is the information I have:

    The dial is signed "CG Pendule 400 Jours Paris". The clock is in a gilt, Four Glass case with architectural details.

    The movement is stamped DR P No 144688 and also USP something or other (US patent?)

    Now for the odd bit. The pendulum is apparently of a mercury compensating type design and not like the pendulums on the clocks displayed in this thread.

    My main questions are:

    1) Is this a German movement?
    2) Could this possibly be the original pendulum (given that some German torsion clocks did use mercury compensating pendulums but they are rare)?

    Sorry for the lack of detail but this information is from a telephone conversation. I hope to have some pictures soon (but this does involve a long trip).

    Thank in advance.

    Stephen
     
  45. svenedin

    svenedin Registered User

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    #45 svenedin, Sep 3, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
    I have been sent some pictures now but I can't post them until I get home from work.

    The movement plates are not round but rectangular. Stamped on the plates is:

    DRP No 144688
    USP No 751686

    There is also another number at the bottom of the movement which is:

    126?3 the question mark is for a digit I can't read. It could be 0 but I can't tell.

    The pendulum is a brass disc with 2 crossing glass tubes of mercury and a lyre shaped central support.

    It appears that the movement is German ? by JUF.

    Now I am thinking:

    1) Was the clock made with this German movement?
    2) Is the pendulum right?
     
  46. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    After Grivolas' first year of production (1906), they had some patent problems and bought movements from JUF and Hauck until they could resume production.

    The movement is most probably original.

    I have not seen the mercury compensating pendulum with a Grivolas clock before, but that does not mean it is not original. They were used by a number of 400 day makers, and could well have been supplied to Grivolas at this time.

    As for value, the Hauck and JUF movement clocks tend to fetch less than those with Grivolas movements, but the pendulum is very collectable and would add considerable value itself.

    Look forward to seeing the photos.
     
  47. svenedin

    svenedin Registered User

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    Thank you Les. I am a bit concerned about the value as the chap is asking for a lot too much in my opinion. As you can see from the photos, one of the glass tubes is broken on the pendulum and the escape wheel is missing. I might be able to find an escape wheel from a scrap movement and I know a chap who makes barometers who could fix and refill the pendulum. However, I still don't know if it is worth the expense.

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  48. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    #48 lesbradley, Sep 3, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
    Use the Personal Message section of the forum to send me your email address and/or tel. no. and I'll give you an opinion on whether it's worth buying.
     
  49. svenedin

    svenedin Registered User

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    Done. Very kind of you. I do love the case even if the movement is in a state at the moment!
     
  50. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Svenedin, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your Grivolas clock. You have what we call a "German" Grivolas, being that it is fitted with a German movement made by Ph. Hauck. Based on the serial number of the movement (12603) the movement was made in 2nd half 1906, most likely the clock was assembled by Grivolas in 1907.

    The movement is original to the case, and is stamped on the edge of the back plate with a unique Grivolas serial number, 1342*. This number is visible in the photo of the side of the movement that shows the escape wheel to be missing. The original pendulum would also have been stamped with this number.

    The case is a Model No. 350, as shown in the Grivolas 1910 400-Day Clock Catalog page 21. This is the first of this case I have documented in my research, very beautiful and I would say rare based on present data.

    The pendulum was made by Andreas Huber (his 1911 patent) for Kienzle Clock Co. sometime after 1911, so there is no way it could have been original to your clock. If there is a serial number stamped on the bottom cover of the pendulum I can provide you with an estimate of when it was actually made. In my opinion, you would do well to find the correct pendulum for the clock, which could have been a Grivolas design (reproductions are available from www.Timesavers.com) or a "standard" six-gallery disc pendulum as used by Hauck at the time, see photos below. Even though the mercury pendulum may add some "glitz" it is certainly NOT correct for any Grivolas clock.

    Finding a replacement escape wheel might be difficult, as "loose" Hauck movements are quite scarce. However, someone reading this may have what you need. If someone could do a tooth count and diameter, as well as the pinion leaf count, it may be that an escape wheel from another maker might be fitted . . there are lots of Kienzle, JUF, and other clock movements available. I'm not where I can do this myself right now but if there's no response within a week I'll be back to my shop and do the measures.
     

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