Post Your Foliot, Anno, Columbus, ( _ _ _ _ ) Clock Here

Scottie-TX

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RC, in his latest posting of "Newest Acquisitions" was the catalyst for this new posting. I've never seen a clock with more names, more styles, manufacturers, etc. - than these ubiquitous creations. I've even read, "monastery clock" to describe them! This one by SELVA was a metal kit. Note the contrate escape wheel instead of pins.
 

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Scottie-TX

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Believed to be the first mechanical clock ca 1300s designed by a French man named, "FOLIOT", these things have been reproduced over and over by many. A few are, BUCO, BAUMANN, and HELD. Some have no names. Some are stamped, "Made in Spain"
Names or titles. Some bear the visage of COLUMBUS, referring to an exposition commemorating him. Some have a label, "ANNO 1640" . One, here, "MDCL" 1450" This one by Baumann A.G. is a shelf sitter with spring power:
 

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Scottie-TX

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VARIATIONS! I've NEVER seen a clock with so many variations. Big ones; Small ones. Pendulum models with a FIVE FOOT pendulum! Flying ball models, to name only a few. Here is the largest I've ever seen - just shy of THREE FEET tall. Here is the smallest I've ever seen; A five inch dial and no taller than a handspan! It is a most reliable performer and less than a pound!
 

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leeinv66

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Here are a couple of mine that I find interesting Scottie!


My flying ball type. It can be a pain to set up and is a shocking time keeper. But once running, it is fascinating to watch.

36.jpg

Note the unusual method used to move the hands. Where most are driven by pins on the front of the winding arbor, this one uses levers.

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This one is made of some kind of compressed plastic. Much more robust than the normal plastic kit clocks you see. It is a very good time keeper and not at all fussy.

38.jpg

This one is an on going project. Started out as all plastic, but now only has plastic gears, hand and wag arm. I will finish it one day!

39.jpg
 

shutterbug

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Here's another common one
 

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Scottie-TX

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Yeah, I rather prefer that model SHUT, because the EW and verge arbor are so visible and up front. Others hide all that kool stuff behind a dial and top frame. THANKS!
 

zepernick

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Good thread Scottie! Rocks for clocks, etc.

There are several references to this "ye olde" genre in the 19thC German literature. An article in the 1 December 1889 _Allgemeines Journal der Uhrmacherkunst_ (pages 310f.) for instance discussed what was described as a true reproduction of the oldest clock in the Black Forest (see below). The article also contained this nifty drawing (also below). The white-on-black adds something, I think.

The clock was being flogged by Rudolf Haas & Sohn (a different Herr from the famous Philipp). One of their trade advertisments from an early 1894 AJU issue is also below.

Regards,
Zep
 

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Scottie-TX

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As usual ZEP, YOU are a compendium of knowledge in all Uhren, Deutschland. Thanks! Yeah. Imagine having one of THESE - a GENUINE old one. Yeah. I'd pay a liddle more for that.
THANKS!
. . . . . . . . . and perhaps you were wondering; I write, "note the contrate escape wheel . . . . . and provided no picture of it. SHEESH!
NOW note the contrate EW!
 

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Richard T.

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Hi Scottie,

No this isn't a pencil sharpener. Looks very much like yours except there is no "hole" going thru to the center and no sharpener......:?| Maybe this one was a reject or something else..

Best,


Richard T.
 

zepernick

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While I was looking for something else, One of These popped up in an advertisment, below, in the 1966 Uhrmacher-Jahrbuch_ .

It was termed a Stoppuhr or stop-watch (the German "Uhr" can refer to "clock" and "watch") because -- so the ad -- passers-by will stop in front of the clockmaker's shop window when they see it. In case the reader was terminally literal, the ad added that it was a stop-watch "in this sense."

Regards,
Zep
 

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Kevin W.

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Interesting clocks everybody. I never knew of so many variations also. I did not know they could keep time well either.Perhaps one day i will add one to my collection. What does the tick tock sound like, since the parts are made of wood?
:thumb:
 

Scottie-TX

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Most are VERY loud, "KLIK - KLAK", - especially that metal version here. I mean that one is L O U D ! Two exceptions being that miniature, here, and those with that Looooong pendulum. They use a pin type pallet assembly mounted to a fiber arm, which probably deadens the pin/pallet contact.
Most are VERY loud and if I recall correctly, I believe about 42 bpm.
 

shutterbug

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Very loud, and it takes a LOT of weight to run them :)
 

Scottie-TX

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More of a repair topic but thought I'd share anyway: The first of two, recently acquired and WHAT a hoot! Somebody tried nearly everything on this one. A block at top with two felt pads was a banking limiter. It limited the oscillation amplitude (defeating the very essence of recoil). The hole in that top block was enlarged on both sides for no apparent reason. The lower staff bushing has a wood screw on either side - lock adjustment? Tee-Hee. One verge flag had three pounds of solder holding it. SHEESH. The REAL problem remained. The delrin plastic click was broken.
So I made one from small mainspring material:
 

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Bill Ward

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Mein is just like Shutterbug's (and Zep's StoppUhr) but is stamped "Manufacture of Baumann AG, Diepoldsau SWISS"
It had a break in the foliot arm where it takes a bend; this is a very weak spot, because of the cross grain. Despite the rather crude looks, it's actually put together with some very fine screws.
It's missing the weights. Shutterbug, does yours have weights in the prismatic form shown in Zep's ad? Are they lead, or iron? And, how much do they weigh?
 

Ralph

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Here are some, in distress, with and without their foliots.

Ralph
 

Scottie-TX

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WOW!
Those are INDEED, old. 'least they certainly do appear so.
Never seen anything like that sir.
Thanks for showing us. Any details on age - origin, etc.? French, perhaps?
 

Bill Ward

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Thanks, Scottie! I guess the weights are cast iron dimpled to resemble wrought? Tgey don't look that heavy; about like 8-day cuckoo weights?
Are those Japanese, Ralph?
 

Ralph

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Scottie-TX said:
WOW!
Those are INDEED, old. 'least they certainly do appear so.
Never seen anything like that sir.
Thanks for showing us. Any details on age - origin, etc.? French, perhaps?
Yes, they are Japanese.

I'm not an expert, but I would put the large one mid 18th century and the others 19th century.... the one on the right maybe mid 19th century..

Ralph


 

Scottie-TX

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Yeah; Thanks TERO for your contribution - EXACT same instruction sheet I have. I make copies of this and when I sell one, include a copy of it for the recipient. I redact it to exclude the "bag" part and at the oiling instructions, just overwrite, " DO NOT OIL!".
 

shutterbug

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Scottie-TX said:
We'll weight and sie what SHUT has but when it arrives - this one will have these:
Exactly what mine has, about a 3 pounder :)
 

Bill Ward

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Thanks, guys. I guess I'll find my fish scales and go looking for a nice 3 lb rock. I think I'll adjust the rate by trying different fishing sinkers as counterweights
 

Scottie-TX

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Mine just arrived - rattling around, unprotected, in a sea of peanuts - the weights busted the hand and wag arm. I'm awaiting response from the seller, inquiring why I should not leave him negative feedback. Postage was seventeen dollars. I ship these PROPERLY packed, often, in a flat rate box for nine dollars. But back to the weights.
I can tell you big one is two anda half; small one - a half pound. Mathematically then, should run on two pounds. You could experiment with a lighter counterweight = 2 - 3 oz. If it provides enough tension - often does - your driving weight can be a few oz smaller. Properly tuned, may even run on as little as ONE pound anda half. Many do.
 

Scottie-TX

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. . . . . . . . and lemme add this about power on these. Weight does VERY much affect regulation. So if you overpower it, you may find it not possible to regulate with wag buckets at most distant placement.
Another note on ticking loudness. These like SHUT, yours - mine - have a perhaps, teflon or delrin, verge flags and similar material for the pins. So you have plastic striking plastic and MUCH quieter than the ones with steel flags and steel pins. My shelf sitter is VERY quiet by comparison.
 

shutterbug

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Mine is metal on metal, and you can hear it from the neighbor's! Well, that might be a little exaggerated :)
 

Scottie-TX

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How about a GOOD news story?
Seller responded RE poor packing and broken parts - Offered a full refund and "keep the clock". I replied that I was only seeking his co-operation and that he had MORE than fully replied. I declined his offer and left him GREAT feedback.
Dismantling it now - this is the hair and oil model. Oh yeah - and assembled with them damnedable cuckoo klipz! SHEESH!
 

Scottie-TX

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Returned for service, here's the one I made and gave to my son. This one, like Pee-Tah's was made from the Lindberg kit, using only the verge flags and plastic gears in the kit. It's an exercise in wood types also. In it, I used maple, oak, rosewood, walnut, cocobolo, wengewood, and others, to make it unique. The dial is, of course, a repro cuckoo dial.
 

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B

bigriver

Hi, once again, I am pleased to make an addition to this thread. When I was first introduced to this clock years ago, it was introduced as the ROCK clock, meaning that you could use a rock for the weights and it would still run.

bigriver
 

Scottie-TX

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THANKS, BR!
Yeah; Many different styles and types of weights were included, but among them, rocks were probably the most popular. I run this one on rocks.
 

shutterbug

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Scottie-TX said:
Returned for service, here's the one I made and gave to my son. This one, like Pee-Tah's was made from the Lindberg kit, using only the verge flags and plastic gears in the kit. It's an exercise in wood types also. In it, I used maple, oak, rosewood, walnut, cocobolo, wengewood, and others, to make it unique. The dial is, of course, a repro cuckoo dial.
Nicely done, Scottie. I like the different types of wood. Not so sure about using rocks :D
 

itbme1987

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if i get one im going to ritz it up and try to get large pieces of pyrite :)
 

Scottie-TX

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BILL, as you noted, this is a very well built clock. It is by far better than all I've had. Despite their use of cuckoo clips - a high quality clock. Fact, because all wheels rotate on stationary arbors, secured by clips - it hasn't even a front plate! Mine now doing great on original weights BILL; But DEFINITELY would not run on less - even with my mods of tapering all EW pins and tapering flags for max lock and min drop.
 

leeinv66

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Here is a spring driven mantel model that Scottie kindly tweeked to perfection and forwarded down to me in Australia. The wag buckets are only temporary. Don't worry Scottie, I will make a good set later (now that I have worked out how:)
 

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Scottie-TX

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'ell Pee-Tah! They look GREAT to me - those buckets.
Yeah, this was a BARGAIN, guys 'n gals; A bargain because it lacked verge staff, wag, buckets, and some related parts - suspension post, upper bushing and adjusting plate, etc. The verge staff I made of steel chime rod and the pallet flags were made of 30 hr. mainspring. Nice find Pee-Tah!
 

harold

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Here is a picture of an antique foliot clock I photographed at the Vienna Watch and Clock Museum.
 

Scottie-TX

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Currently working on two of these - both BUCO - I thought you may appreciate something I learned - haven't seen written anywhere in the instructions for these clocks - the wag buckets hanging from the foliot arm? Well, if you're having problems getting one reliable, I found recently that the balance of the foliot arm is very important. That is, that the buckets do balance the arm. It is FAR more important that the buckets balance the arm than that they are equal distances on it. The way I balance them is lay the clock on it's back and move the buckets in or out until the arm is static - that is, doesn't fall to either side from unbalance.
Unbalanced, the clock struggles to equalize the oscillations and often stops unless you provide more power.
 

Rollerpen

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Shame on you guy’s… :rolleyes:

I had never had an interest in this type of clock until you all started this thread. Now I have decided after much resistance that I need one to add some whimsy to all those staid old German box clocks I have on the wall. I will have to start looking for one.

I hope you are happy.. You have given my wife one more reason to pick at me for my clock purchases. That is bad enough, but her rule is that whatever I spend on clocks she gets to spend on jewelry or some other trinket she wants… Not fair. :(


Ken
 

Spaceman Spiff

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What an interesting thread this is! I never knew there were so many variations of this type of clock.

I had one of the wall-type varieties back when I was a teenager (in the late 1970's) that I ordered from some catalog or somewhere, but mine was made entirely out of plastic. It was one of my first clocks ever, and I was totally excited about getting it. I remember each weight had to be snapped together from two plastic halves and filled with x-number of x-type of nails. It was the most worthless piece of ____ clock I have ever owned. The rope would just slide gripless through the gear-holder-thingie without powering it, the weights would not stay together and all the nails kept falling out, and the clock never once ran correctly. I finally threw it in the trash. Ever since, when I've seen one of these clocks for sale somewhere, I've turned my head away in disgust.

Now, in seeing all the varieties posted above (especially all the nice wood and metal ones), I think I may take a closer look the next time I see one for sale.

Thanks for the fascinating thread!
John
 

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