Post Your Farcot Clocks Here

Re: french boulle style mantle clock

C, thanks for the confirmation. Did you confirm what the letters are between "Horlogerie" and "S.G.D.G." on the front of the movement? Perhaps you could take another photo with the pendulum to the side so that could be documented.

Regarding your photos, I have edited them to show them upright and also uploaded them as thumbnails so it takes much less space and still shows all the detail when you click on the photo. There is an option when you upload to show them full size or as thumbnails, it is much more useful to our readers to use the thumbnail option.

I think the price you paid is in the ball park for this age clock, its condition, and the maker.

Also, I'm merging your thread with our "Post Your Farcot Clocks Here" thread to put this together with all the other Farcot clocks in our archives.

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

AVN, as already cited by the others you have a clock made by Eugéne Farcot, Rue des Trois Bornes, Paris. Based on the serial number it was completed in 1888, only two years before Farcot stopped manufacturing in 1890. The skeletonized front plate allowing the gear train to be seen is typical of many Farcot movements, as is the Brocot-style fixed pendulum escapement. Your key is definitely a replacement.

The porcelain case with gilt bronze or brass trim evidently was made by a third party case maker, as identical cases have been documented with other makers' clocks. Two case designs using the porcelain "drum" have been documented, one being the chain hanging wall model as is yours, and also a pedestal mounted table model. The porcelain patterns were of a wide variety of floral, geometric, and Asian themes in a wide variety of colors. Some of the porcelain drums are marked with logos of well-known companies such as "Croisy le Roi" and "Flora B & Cie" so it is evident the porcelain part of the case was contracted out to porcelain specialists.

Based on clocks documented to date Farcot made both the hanging and table models over a period of about eight years from 1882 to 1890.

I missed this thread when it was posted back in June, being out of the country at the time so my response is considerably late. I am merging this thread with the "Post Your Farcot Clocks Here" thread for archival purposes and further discussion.

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

Dugnorth, thanks for posting the photos and your inquiry about this Farcot clock. It is of particular interest as this is the third one of these unusual case clocks has been documented and posted in this thread; look at posts #301 through #310. One of the two that are featured there has the same flat black finish as your clock, even though evidently the cases are made of cast brass?? Have you been able to tell what material was used for your case? Is there any evidence of a prior gilt finish for example on the inside of the case?

The serial numbers of the three clocks to date are 64199, 64665, and 69466. The first two were made in late 1885 and the third in early 1887 based on those serial numbers.

The minute hand of your clock evidently is a replacement. The original hands were a variant of the Fleur de Lis as seen here on clock serial number 64199:

It shouldn't be difficult to find a matching hand, the hour hand you have is original. Aside from that hand, it appears your clock is complete and in quite good cosmetic condition.

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

Welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for providing the photos of your clock for us to use for identification and dating. I'm posting them here so our users can see what you have. This is the third clock of this exact model I have documented, this one from 1883, another from 1885 and the third from 1887.



Many of the features of this clock are quite similar to other Farcot cartel clocks including the pendulum design, movement, dial and hands. Note in particular the pendulum hanger that is fixed to the anchor arbor; the Farcot anchor logo is built in and the open part below the anchor has a resemblance to the Farcot shield logo. All that work and it's not even visible on this model. There are other models that have open dials such that this distinctive design can be seen.

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

Gabriel, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry and the photo of your Farcot clock. I would say it is definitely worth repair and restoration, I suspect it probably just needs a good cleaning and lubrication to be put back in working order.

It will be appreciated if you could post a photo of the back of the movement showing the Farcot logo and movement serial number. With that information I can provide you an accurate date when the clock was made and possibly other information about your clock. I will look forward to see more photos.

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

Thanks for the photo, however I can't read the serial number very well. It appears to be 39839 but the photo is not in focus so the numbers could be different. Please confirm the actual numbers, if the first two are "39" your clock was made in 1879 or 1880 depending on the complete number.

The logo is one of Farcot's known designs so that does confirm your clock was made by Farcot.

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

Gabriel, thanks very much for the clear photo and confirmation of the serial number. The number 38539 was made near the end of 1879 so within the range I mentioned earlier. I agree with Talyinka that before you attempt to service a quality French clock movement such as this one, it would be best to learn the techniques on some other clocks and then come back to this one.

While you are learning, you should read through our Clock Repair Forum as that will help you with many "how to do it" hints and tips from experienced clockmakers. Good luck with your learning!

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

Gabriel, cleaning of this type of case requires care to avoid removing the finish in the event it is made of spelter and not bronze. I first use a soft cloth with a small amount of water to remove accumulated dust, then allow it to dry completely. After that I use a light spray furniture polish available here under the brand name "Pledge". The polish is "not" applied directly to the case but used to wet a soft cloth and then gently rubbed on. This will clean the case, leaving it lighter in color and with a soft shine.

Do you have a glass dome for the clock? If so it should be kept under the dome except for winding. If not, such oval domes are available but somewhat expensive. You can see what is available from the U.S. at www.glassdomes.com, the owner Ben Bowen will work with you to find an appropriate dome if he does not have one in stock. There is another supplier in Germany but I don't have the web link.

Let us see what the clock looks like after you have it cleaned.

 

Re: Looking for help to identify clockmaker trademark

Gabriel, thanks for your followup and the new photos. From what I can see it is likely that the statue is made of cast brass that has then been chemically treated to produce a bronze-like finish. This was commonly done at the time your clock was made. Also, many were fire gilt (ormoulu) instead of being bronzed; those show up as really bright and shiny with the gold finish which was much more expensive than the bronzed finish. The roughness on some parts of the statue could be where the casting wasn't polished before the bronze finish was applied.

Personally I would leave the clock as you now have it. If you will apply the cleaning and polishing about once per year it will keep dirt from accumulating and also it will acquire a slightly softer and brighter finish.

 

Re: farcot? conical pendulum help

Carl, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! When you registered, the rules that were presented for your information prohibit the discussion of values in our regular educational forums. We do have forums for values ("What is this [clock, watch, book, tool] worth?") listed in the main Forum menu that are free to NAWCC members or can be used by non-members for a small fee. These can be used when asking for value information for your own item.

Thanks for your understanding and we look forward to your ongoing participation.

John Hubby'
Principal Administrator
NAWCC Message Board
<<+>>

 

Re: Conical Pendulum Clock Question

Ralph, thanks for posting. Your clock was made about 1875 based on my serial number database projections. Farcot made similar clocks across most of his entire clockmaking career, the first being among his earliest clocks and the last about five years before he stopped production in 1890.

As best I know all the smaller Farcot conical clocks used a silk loop for suspending the pendulum; at least all those in my data and the ones I've seen personally had that feature.

I don't have a foot like the one you are missing, but those came with most French alabaster case clocks so it might not be all that difficult to find one from someone's boneyard. One thing I might mention is that many of the clocks with the case and statue you have evidently were sold with a similarly shaped sub-base with a velour cover. Here's an example:



Will appreciate if you could post a photo of the movement back plate with the bell removed so the Farcot logo(s) will be visible. There were a number of versions, many time there were two logos on the same movement (Farcot "Shield" and the Eagle with Crossed Arrows) and I am attempting to correlate how they were used across the years. Also, does the movement have two or three plates? All the time and strike I have documented to date are a typical French style roulant with countwheel mounted to the back, but one early clock had rack strike and three plates, the third being a small half-plate to hold the barrel arbors (the barrels were longer than the depth between plates for the time and strike trains).

 

Re: Conical Pendulum Clock Question

Ralph, thanks for posting. Somehow I missed getting this one documented in my database back when you posted it last year, quite an impressive clock. Based on the serial number it was made in 1886 and is the last (highest serial number) conical pendulum clock in my data for Farcot. I think the movement for this clock and similar movements used for other models were most likely roulants purchased from suppliers such as Japy and S. Marti. I've got a few of them documented with maker logos or Medailles but some don't have any marking other than Farcot's logo and serial number. Also, many of the clocks found on eBay don't have photos that show what is behind the bell or anything identifiable. I'm not sure but it appears there may be a stamp on yours just below the removable pivot bridge, very blurry so can't say for sure. If you could check and let us know that will be appreciated.

 

Re: Conical Pendulum Clock Question

Ralph, this movement design received French Patent 107030 on 1 March 1875 and U.S. Patent 166518 August 10, 1875. Based on the serial number of your clock my present data shows it would have been made in 1870. However, that is five years too early to correspond to the grant date for the patents.

My first impression was the serial number for your clock was too low even without considering the patents as this cartel style wall clock didn't appear until the mid 1870's or later. So, I looked closely at the detail where the number is stamped. I can't be sure, but it looks like there is a digit hiding under the left end of the jeweled pivot bridge that I think is a "7". That would make the serial number 17137 and show it to be made in early 1875 instead of 1870, which fits exactly with the French patent date.

Aside from this serial number/dating anomaly, this is the fourth one of these I now have in my database. The previous ones are all later with serial numbers 20759 (early 1876), 32700 (late1878), and 69107 (mid-1886). The French patent was valid for 15 years so these could have been made to 1890 with protection.

I am curious about the pivot bridge. This is the only one so far that is jeweled and it appears to me that it may have been a post-factory modification. The cut-out at the bottom of the back plate is irregular in shape so it doesn't appear "factory". I only have photos of one other of these with this style pendulum that shows the movement front. There "is" a pivot bridge, but it is made like an intermediate wheel cock with no jewel, and the opening in the plate is quite regular.

Could you confirm that the anchor and pendulum rod are fixed together in one piece? Most of the underslung escapement Farcot movements are made that way.

The alarm mechanism appears to have had a hard life but it doesn't appear "unfixable". Are you going to try making it work?

Very interesting clock!

This movement was used mainly for Farcot's cartel wall clocks and porcelain plate clocks, I have a large number of them documented. Based on the serial number your movement was made in mid-1886 when the porcelain plate clocks were very popular. They are well made with the Brocot style "tic-tac" underslung escapement and pendulum; one of the features of a number of these is they have back-painted or stenciled glass dials. I own three quite different wall clocks all with this movement including a porcelain plate clock, a brass repousse front cartel, and a frame-mounted table clock. You might find a home for it in one of this style case

 

Re: Restoring a Boulle style Farcot

Clip, thanks for posting your "3rd try was a charm" Farcot clock retrieved from ignominy. It certainly "is" a project clock but can be done, I've wrestled with a couple of these Boulle style cases in the past with some pleasing results.

The movement in your clock was made about mid-1875 based on the serial number. This same movement was made for almost the entire span of Farcot's time in business, from about 1862 to the late 1880's. The exact case design with slightly differing brass inlay patterns has been documented from 1864 to 1878. Here are a couple of examples so you will have something to compare:

The first clock is 1864, the second one 1878. As you can see, very little difference over a period of 14 years.. I've included a photo of the front of the movement for the second clock that shows the pendulum. This is typical of this movement; from what I can see in your photos it appears only the bob is missing.

Regarding glass and bezels, many of these had no glass. Some have a press-fit bezel that is a close interference fit over an inner bezel, and a very few such as the second clock have a hinged bezel.

One final observation, the hands most likely would have been the Breguet moonpoise style as shown with the first clock and like the hour hand on your clock.

 

Re: Restoring a Boulle style Farcot

Clip, the hands on the second clock are correct being a beetle & poker design that was used on a number of Farcot's later clocks. The moonpoise design was used across the entire period of his time in business and was the design most frequently found in his earlier clocks.

Keep us posted on your progress with lots of photos!

 

Re: Dating a swinging cherub clock

bchen, thanks for your inquiry and posting the photos of your swinging cherub clock. Your not being able to see the thread you tried to access is likely because it was in our "What is this clock worth" forum which is accessible only to NAWCC members or non-members who have paid a small subscription. However, we do have a special thread for Farcot clocks which I will move this thread to shortly after making this post.

As already mentioned by JTD, your clock was made by Eugéne Farcot, Rue des Trois Bornes, Paris, who started his business there in 1858. Based on the movement serial number it is one of the earlier ones, made near the beginning of 1872. For info, Farcot patented this escapement design in 1862 and made these clocks from that time until at least 1887, with virtually identical movements, pendulums, and several unique case designs being used the entire time. It is thus not possible to date one of these without knowing the serial number of the movement.

George Nelson mentioned a friend's clock that is reputed to be made in 1887, if the serial number can be provided (and photos if possible!) I can accurately date when it was made. As I've noted already the last swinging cherub clock I now have in my data was made in that year. My bet is that it was likely made earlier.

Yours appears to be complete and original but the movement is badly in need of cleaning and polishing to bring it back to life. I'm not sure about the finish on the dial bezel, but have not seen one with that very dark color before. It could well be severe tarnish such as appears to have affected the movement, maybe due to being without a glass shade and being exposed to cigarette smoke for a number of years. It also could be an original bronze finish that has darkened somewhat. We will be interested to see what it looks like after you've had time to clean it up.

 

Re: My First French Clock : Farcot

Doug, thanks for posting. Somehow I have your clock in my data but I notice I didn't respond here about your questions. My apologies!! Based on the movement serial number your clock was made in early 1883, and appears to be complete and original. Not too many of these nice wood cases have been documented, Farcot seems to have preferred alabaster and brass for his table and mantel clocks.

Accessing the mainspring is exactly as you have described. They are just like any spring barrel, in this instance with a removable back plate.

 

Re: Could you help me date this Farcot Eagle Clock

RJR, like Douglas I had seen your posting and then went off to do something else and didn't get back unto now, my apologies for the tardy response.

You have a cartel style wall clock that originally would have had a formed and highly decorated/stamped front case made of brass sheet, with a cartouche style chapter ring and large cast filigree hands. Here is one with a time & strike movement that has essentially the same back as yours. The main difference is that it is quite a bit larger, perhaps 6 tp 8 inches in diameter more than yours. However, the basics are the same, the pendulum bob is the same, the back pendulum cover is the same, etc.



I have seen a couple more of these that were smaller in the size you have but unfortunately don't have photos. It would not be a simple thing to find or make an authentic replacement. Perhaps some of our other users may have suggestions about how you can come up with a functional clock.

 

Re: Pleasae help me identify this movement

Jan, thanks very much for posting. Your clock is definitely made by Farcot. The logo on the back plate covering the mainspring is the fourth one we know used by Farcot.

The first was simply his name "E. FARCOT"; the next was a monogram of his initials "EF"; the third was an eagle clutching arrows poised above the words "Chappement Brevete Fot" (the "Fot" is an abbreviation of Farcot); and then this one with a similar eagle to the third one but placed inside the words "MARQUE DE FABRIQUE DÉPOSÉ" plus the words "A PARIS" and "HORLOGERIE BTE. S.G.D.G.". Here are photos of all four:



The first photo is Farcot's name from the first of the monumental size statue conical pandlum clocks, serial number "0". The second is the monogram from serial number 23, same type of clock. The third is from one of the earliest swinging cherub style clocks, and the fourth is from an elegant "Boulle" style table clock. Notice on the last one, it has the same type of movement as your clock and the eagle is clearly stamped.

Another clue that the clock is by Farcot is the instruction label on the back. This is the "standard" instruction label used by Farcot from the 1870s until he stopped production in 1890. The abbreviation "Fot" found on the label is the abbreviation of Farcot as I mentioned already so this is another confirmation the clock being made by Farcot. Here is a closeup:



Based on the serial number your clock was made about mid-1874. The movement design was first used around 1862 and continued being used at least to 1885 from the clocks now in my database.

I will move this to the Farcot thread after this is posted.

 

Hello Jan, thanks for posting! Will appreciate if you could confirm the serial number so your clock can be properly dated. Also, it appears there may be the Farcot shield logo stamped just above and to the right of the serial number, however that part of the photo is blurred so I can't see that very well nor determine if there is a four or five-digit serial number. Whatever is there would like to see a clear photo. The style of clock shows up in the early 1870s among Farcot clocks and then was made for quite a number of years.