Post Your Farcot Clocks Here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Charlie, Jan 16, 2004.

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  1. Charlie

    Charlie Guest

    Recently it was my good fortune to repair a French Statue Clock that featured a "conical" or "rotary" pendulum. It was my first encounter with this type of escapement. But it was a delightful experience. Part of the escapement was missing so it took a bit of research to realize that the pendulum actually did swing in a circle. Emperically I discovered a few important things that makes these clocks run well. It would be great to compare notes with anyone who owns or has serviced one of these clocks.

    Charlie, #107896
     
  2. Conical Pendulum Statue Clock

    Charlie, I had one of those some time ago. It was alabaster with a woman on top holding out one hand, which should have held the pendulum. However, it was gone when I bought the clock, but it had the wood base and oval glass dome. (an idea of how long ago it was, I paid $70.00 for it) Played with it for some time; made a pendulum based on a fishing sinker. It would run within a few minutes a week but not week after week. It was time and strike, nice small clock. I broke the dome replacing it after winding (glass gets brittle with age) and it would never keep time after that with the pendulum out in the air. Sold it - and made quite a few $ as I recall. My only experience with the rotary in over 65 years of tinkering with clocks. Not much written on them either.
    Hope you enjoyed it.
    KB
     
  3. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #3 John Hubby, Jan 17, 2004
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
    Conical Pendulum Statue Clock

    Hi Charlie,

    I have four of these and have serviced a number of them over the years, with all kind of designs. Most of them appear to have been made by Eugéne Farcot (French) with patents starting in the late 1860's. If you ever get to the NAWCC Museum there is a monumental one on display that is about 9 feet tall, awesome.

    As far as repair is concerned, I've found these clocks usually have a good bit of wear on the upper end of the time train (a fair number also have a strike train but only normal wear there). I think that's because the final shaft is turning at a pretty fair rate. The four clocks I have range from 60 rpm on the largest one to 90 rpm on the smallest. The really big ones run slower but not all that much.

    Also, I think there is wear especially on the pendulum drive arbor because it is always under an eccentric load in pushing the pendulum around in its circle.

    One other problem I've found on a couple of them is excessive wear to the contrate wheel that drives the pendulum drive arbor, mainly because of incorrect depthing. That is adjustable on most of them and the clock "will" run with incorrect depthing but it can sure wear out the teeth on the contrate wheel.

    Otherwise, they service pretty much like any round plate French movement. Well made, fine pivots, etc.

    I would be interested to hear if you have found anything I didn't mention.

    John Hubby, Secretary
    The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168
     
  4. Bill Ward

    Bill Ward Registered User
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    Conical Pendulum Statue Clock

    Yes, I agree with John; many of us would be interested in what you have to say.
    I don't have one of these clocks, but they've always fascinated me. I know that this mechanism was once used on telescope drives because it's constant- no jumping ahead with each tick. It must have been the Horological Science Chapter's newsletter which had an article on the mathematics of the conical pendulum, several years ago. The author showed that the poor timekeeping was due to a form of circular error, but this was in the opposite direction from the error of a plane pendulum. This suggested the possibility that a pendulum swinging in an elliptical path might exhibit no circular error.
     
  5. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    Earcot B

    Paul,

    I don't have an answer to the B Earcot name as it doesn't appear in my references. But just in case the stamping is not clear, could it possibly say Brocot? It it does, then maybe we can find an answer for you.

    Doug S.
     
  6. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    Earcot B

    Could it be E. Farcot?

    Here's an earlier thread

    old ref::Farcot

    Ralph
     
  7. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #7 John Hubby, Feb 13, 2004
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
    Earcot B

    My guess would definitely be E. (Eugéne) Farcot as the maker for the clock. Photos would clinch the I.D., and the serial number (if it is a Farcot) will allow me to provide some dating info for the clock.

    Farcot's most well known patents covered the conical pendulum clocks that were discussed in the thread Ralph provided, and a double escape wheel "chaffcutter" type of escapement that provides pendulum swing from front to back instead of side to side. This escapement usually drove a miniature doll in a swing, with the case normally of alabaster, sometimes a solid brass or gilt spelter case.

    He also made "tic-tac" pendulum clocks in which the pendulum is directly fixed to the anchor arbor. Both time only and time and strike models were made for all of these variations.

    John Hubby
     
  8. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #8 John Hubby, Feb 15, 2004
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
    Earcot B

    Phil, Paul, and all . .

    Most definitely made by Eugéne Farcot. If he will look real close under high magnification, the "Be" may actually be "Bte", with the "t" being built into the underline.

    This abbreviation is for "Brevete", the French word for "patent". So, what it says is "Farcot Patent". I did some enhancement on Photoshop from the pic and the result is shown here . . on the left is what is actually on the clock and on the right is what "should" be there. It's not unusual that incomplete stampings are found like this, since most of them were done by hand.

    Hope this helps!!

    John Hubby
     
  9. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Earcot B

    Here are the pics. From serial number info I have put together, this clock (64373) would have been made about 1885.

    John Hubby
     
  10. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Earcot B

    Here are the pics.

    John Hubby
     
  11. Earcot B

    Farcot made some very nice clocks. I was very blessed to be able to work on a fe. the largest one was a 7'6" tall conical. It was a full size lady holding up a pendulum,and she was standing on a marble base that inclosed the clockworks. I also worked on several smaller ones that where also conicals.
     
  12. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Earcot B

    It would be interesting to know how many of those very large clocks were made. I know of three of them, all pretty much identical. One is in the NAWCC Museum in Columbia, PA, and the other two are in private collections. Really awesome clocks.

    John Hubby
     
  13. Earcot B

    The clock that I worked on was #30, and this one had her left hand up holding the pendulum instead of the right hand.
    The customerof mine that owned this clock said every one thought there to be 25 of these but his #was 30?.
     
  14. clocker3

    clocker3 Guest

    Farcot escapement -- pics attached

    I have recently aquired a clock and was told it has a farcot movement. The clock has been completely gone through and is keeping perfect time, and has a porcelain case in pristine condition and I was told is very old. I have never heard of this farcot and was wondering if anyone could shed a little light on it. Unusal thing about it is there is no suspension spring. I dont know how to put a pic here but can send 1 if someone can help. my email is - fljim347@bellsouth.net - any help is appreciated -- thanks
    note - i have learned that this has to be dead on in beat to keep running

    Edited to make the email address live
     
  15. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    Farcot escapement -- pics attached

    Jim,

    To post a picture, return to your original post on this subject, and look for the "edit" button at the bottom of your post (the eraser) and click on it. Look for the paper clip in the edit bar at the top of the drop down, and click on it. Now you can browse your computer to find the image. Click on the image you want to post and follow the instructions. Then finish editing your post and click on Post Now. Should do it.
     
  16. Bill Ward

    Bill Ward Registered User
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    Farcot escapement -- pics attached

    Could this be brocot, rather than "farcot"?
     
  17. John Hubby

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    #17 John Hubby, Jun 23, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
    Farcot escapement -- pics attached

    Jim, Bill and all,

    It's definitely Farcot and not Brocot. Eugène Farcot made clocks from 1853 to 1890 and was issued a number of very unusual patents in the late 1860's and early 1870's for escapements, pendulums, clock designs, etc.

    Most well known examples include:

    1) Conical pendulum clocks ranging from small table models to enormous and elegant statue models over 9 feet tall . . one of these is in the NAWCC Museum.

    2) Swinging doll pendulum clocks, usually in alabaster marble or cast gilt metal arched cases with the doll underneath . . these have a right angle double escape wheel design (or a single wheel with a double pin anchor) to cause the pendulum to oscillate front to back.

    3) Skeletonized movements with open Brocot escapements having pivoted pendulums (no suspension springs). This may be what Jim has.

    4) Tic-Tac pendulum clocks with pivoted pendulums (no suspension springs). These were usually small portable clocks.

    5) Industrial clocks with unusual escapements

    If Jim can post a photo I'll try to help identify exactly what clock it is. Also, a pic of the back plate would be very much appreciated, showing any stampings, logos, serial numbers, etc. With the serial number I can date the clock within a year or two of its actual production date.

    John Hubby
     
  18. Bill Ward

    Bill Ward Registered User
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    Farcot escapement -- pics attached

    Ah yes...the conical pendulum! Thanks, John.
     
  19. clocker3

    clocker3 Guest

    Farcot escapement -- pics attached

    another pic
     
  20. clocker3

    clocker3 Guest

    Farcot escapement -- pics attached

    pic3
     
  21. Need Help on ID of This Clock.

    Help and information please.

    A friend has come across this clock and would like any information. It came to him disassembled in a brown paper bag.

    He has the movement, though I don't have any photos of the movement to post. He believes the movement is French.

    The movement is housed within a ball held between a tripod of three legs/brackets.

    Each of the brackets has a threaded screw at it’s base… for mounting? (One original is missing.)
    The top of the brackets each has a hole through it as if to screw a spacer/platform between the brackets across at the very top. Though there is no platform with the clock.

    To remover the movement from the ball, the back bracket is in two parts (held with a screw). Remove the screw and separate the two-piece bracket this allows the back of the ball, with the bracket attached, to be slid apart exposing the movement.



    I don't know any other way of explaining the way the clock and brackets are held together.

    The top of the ball has a hole through which a shaft stick-up approx'ly 2-3". There as also what appears to be 4 small holes equally spaced around the top hole. Would indicate some sort of platform may have been attached to the top of the ball. Guiding the shaft or providing a stage of some sort?

    I'm told the shaft that protrudes out the top is geared into a crown gear type set-up on the movement. It's imagined that the shaft was meant to rotate an ornament of some sort powered by the clock movement:???:

    I hope all this wordiness doesn’t dissuade you from reading and commenting.

    Our hope is that someone has seen something similar and can offer advice or a direction on where to look.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/clockjim/sets/1003869/

    https://mb.nawcc.org/
     
  22. RL

    RL Registered User
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    Need Help on ID of This Clock.

    Jim,
    The clock itself looks like the Lux 'Globe" or "Baseball" clock. They were shelf pendulette type clocks. The original base would reveal Lux or GCC (Globe Clock Co.) with Lux movements. Unfortunately the base is not there so that will not help. Infact it looks as though someone has mounted the clock to this holder/base that was probably not a clock piece to begin with. I could be wrong but that is presently the picture I see.
    A picture of the movement would definately prove or disprove my theory.
     
  23. John Hubby

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    #23 John Hubby, Sep 23, 2005
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
    Need Help on ID of This Clock.

    Jim,

    Have to disagree with Randy, it's not a Lux. I have a clock with an identical frame, which is a French conical pendulum clock with the movement made by Eugène Farcot. If you can post a photo of the movement back plate it would be much appreciated. The Farcot logo is usually a shield with the letters "Fot. Bte." and "Brevete S.G.D.G." above and below or at the side. There are also other logos but this is the most common. Also there will be a serial number.

    My clock is sitting on a triangular base made of wood with velour cover on the upper flat surface, and the whole clock is in a large round glass dome on a round walnut base. The screw-in feet that you mention are used to level the clock. Mine is time and strike, whereas it appears yours is time only.

    The conical pendulum (missing on your clock) is suspended from the apex of the frame with a silk thread, and there "should" be a rotary piece at the top center of the globe that is driven by the clock movement and causes the pendulum to rotate. The pendulum consists of a lead filled brass sphere mounted on a rod, which is threaded so you can screw the sphere up to speed up the clock or down to slow it down.

    Unfortunately I don't have a photo to post but will see if I can get one up shortly.

    John Hubby
     
  24. Need Help on ID of This Clock.

    John and Randy,

    Thanks for both your replies. I'll see if I can get a photo image of the movements.

    Anyone one else?

    Any and all comments and suggestions are appreciated.
     
  25. RL

    RL Registered User
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    Need Help on ID of This Clock.

    John,
    I feel certain your evaluation is closer than my own. It just had an uncanny resmblance to the Lux and appears to come apart the same way.
    In thinking it was not the original stand--maybe it would make more sense if all the parts were there. i.e. conical pendulum etc.
    Must admit, have never seen one like it.
     
  26. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
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    Need Help on ID of This Clock.

    I think John is correct. I've seen these clocks a few times in auction catalogues. They're quite valuable.
     
  27. Need Help on ID of This Clock.

    Jeremy,

    Thanks for the tip.

    I'll check out Horton's and Schmitt's auction catalogs.
     
  28. Omexa

    Omexa Guest

    Farcot clock

    I recently purchased a Farcot clock. I would like to know when it was made; stamped on the back of the clock is "FARCOT B, S D G D, A PARIS it also has a serial number 53519". I am hoping to restore the clock; any information about this clock would be appreciated.
     
  29. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Farcot clock

    Please provide photos if you can, one of the full front of the clock and one of the back plate of the movement showing the serial number and the Farcot logo.

    From the serial number your clock would have been made in the early 1880's. Photos will help get a closer date.

    John Hubby
     
  30. Omexa

    Omexa Guest

    Farcot clock

    I will send photos next week; I will be out of town for a few days. A funeral to attend Regards Omexa
     
  31. Omexa

    Omexa Guest

    Farcot clock

    Photos of Farcot clock 1c_1_b 100_o115
     
  32. Omexa

    Omexa Guest

    Farcot clock

    Photos<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/54297322@N00/141038972/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/49/141038972_e3fbf9999d_o.jpg" width="400" height="300" alt="1c_1_b" /></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/54297322@N00/141038971/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/46/141038971_67bd8efa72_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="100_0115" /></a>
     
  33. Bill_NY

    Bill_NY Registered User

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    Farcot clock

    Omexa-I'll help you out.
    141038971_67bd8efa72_b.jpg 141038972_e3fbf9999d_o.jpg
     
  34. John Hubby

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    Farcot clock

    Omexa, It's a bit difficult to see exactly what the whole clock would look like. Do you have a photo of the whole clock from the front?

    In any event, this clock was made about 1881 based on the serial number. It is a time only "tic-tac" style movement, that means the pendulum is attached directly to the anchor arbor with no suspension spring. The pallets thus impulse the pendulum directly from the escape wheel with no indirect device such a crutch being needed.

    Farcot produced many of these movements, mainly used in wall and table clocks. The movements, being partially skeletonized and having the escapement visible through the dial make them quite attractive when they have been fully cleaned and polished. They are very reliable and good runners.

    John Hubby
     
  35. Omexa

    Omexa Guest

    Farcot clock

    Hi, all, Re. photos. I thought that I stuffed up: I think that I joined the URL's together. I am only new with flickr. I am very impressed with the help that you and other people are offering me. I need to know where to get a mainspring. My mate said to me in the local club in Darwin; when I mentioned to him that the mainspring had broken off 6 inches from it's outside anchor point: "you will be losing 6 inches of time", I thought about it and you can think about it and draw your own conclusions about my mates sanity. I am reasonably good with my hands, I was an instrument mechanic and an optical mechanic and as well a marine mechanic. Then I went to University and got a degree in Sociology ar 55 years old. I am determined to get this clock going; it is a challenge. I also collect cameras and pocket watches. Regards Ray
     
  36. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Farcot clock

    Ray, your mate really isn't off his rocker. If only the last six inches of the spring are missing, you can probably rework the broken end to make a new anchor point. That assumes you have thoroughly cleaned the rest of the spring and inspected it to be sure there are no cracks or other defects. This clock is an 8-day movement and the loss of 6 inches won't be noticed in the normal run time.

    John Hubby
     
  37. Omexa

    Omexa Guest

    Farcot clock

    To John Hubby; The spring is not in good condition,can you offer me a solution? I have got the size; 115cm, 16mm, by 10thou. please excuse the cross refence between metric and imperial; I have only got an imperial measure. Hoping that you can help me with a cross reference mainspring. As an aside I notice that there are a lot of Chinese copies of Farcot clocks on Ebay; I hope that people are not being sucked in. Ebay should clamp down on this practice. Best regards Ray
     
  38. John Hubby

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    Ray, your best bet will be to contact Smith and Smith in Sydney. They have a wide range of clock parts including mainsprings and should be able to help you out. The above link leads to their online store, and they do have a spring in their list that looks like the right one for your clock.

    I know the owner Michael Smith personally, give him my best regards should you make contact.

    John Hubby
     
  39. Omexa

    Omexa Guest

    Farcot clock

    To John Hubby; your friend Michael Smith has, as you said, the spring that I need. He is sending it to me. I have cleaned the movement and a few things are seized or broken. So far no great problems; These Farcot clocks are certainly made to last. It is a great pity that today's manufacturers do not follow this policy. I will post photos of the clock when it is finished. The clock is a wooden shelf clock; i will get a lot of satisfaction when I hear the first "Tic Tac', Regards Ray
     
  40. Kevin W.

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    Wall clock maker??

    Any ideas on this clock.Looks kind of unusual to me.
    336.jpg
     
  41. Scottie-TX

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    Wall clock maker??

    I don't get a "feel" for dimensions here: What're we talkin'; 'Bout a five inch porcelain dial?
     
  42. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Wall clock maker??

    I am not sure auction description very vaque, i have asked for dial close up and pic of movement.
     
  43. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    Wall clock maker??

    You sometimes see these as ribbon pull winds and sometimes with alarms.

    I've seen French ones and I think Welch may have made one that looks like this.

    Ralph
     
  44. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Wall clock maker??

    My first guess is E. Farcot, French, ca. 1880's. The inverted movement (winding at 12:00) was used on many clocks by this maker, and he also produced many versions of this "wag" pendulum type of wall clock. Another possibility would be Japy Freres, more or less same period.

    A photo of the movement back plate would provide the info needed to confirm.

    John Hubby
     
  45. Warren Brook

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    #45 Warren Brook, Nov 26, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2013
    German movement ID?

    7936 Mvmt Back-Logo-SN.jpg

    Please provide age and maker information on this movement. Can you identify the trademark?

    German movement

    Regards,
    Warren NAWCC #159000 Chapter 24
     
  46. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    German movement ID?

    What is it about your "German" movement that makes you think it isn't from France?

    I can't read the lettering behind the suspension but the last word "brevete" is usually found on French clock movements.

    The logo is unidentified in Kochmann's Trade Mark Index.

    What's really curious is the off-set motion of the pendulum that really makes the clock unique.
     
  47. Graham

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  48. Warren Brook

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    German movement ID?

    Les and Graham:

    I guess that I had a Maturity Moment (brain fart). I was thinking French and typing German! Anyway, thank so much for your research effort on this unusual French movement.

    Sincerely,
    Warren
     
  49. John Hubby

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    German movement ID?

    Warren, your clock was made by E. Farcot, in about late 1870 based on the serial number. The writing "Chappement Brevete" refers to Farcot's patented double wheel chaffcutter right angle escapement that provides a front to rear motion of the pendulum. The pendulums on these clocks are usually a cupid (some call putti) or a doll.

    Could you post a photo of the front of the clock? Looks like it has an alabaster case, and would like to see the details of the dial and pendulum.

    John Hubby
     
  50. CZHACK

    CZHACK Registered User

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    Farcot

    I just bought the following clock and note from prior threads that the Farcot tradmark seems to have been a shield and anchor. I do not have access to my books - can anyone confirm the eagle/arrow and F-ot trademarks as Farcot and/or estimate date (#34434)? Thanks.

    329208699_06e9d4a066_o.jpg

    329208696_7a6948efd4_o.jpg

    329208688_b8ef2dd4cf_o.jpg

    329203469_66446303a2_o.jpg

    329208686_afe5186240_o.jpg
     

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