I didn't see a thread for Comtoise Clocks so I'll start one and maybe one of the Mods can add it to the Post your........category. Best, Richard T.
The pictures show the most tatty member of my Morbier group. Wind holes are below the dial, and Belisarious tells me it is probably a one month clock. It has an alarum fitting, and also has cast brass decoration. Also a picture of Morez railway station. (pics from www.123villages.com are free)
Richard thanks for starting this thread.It really makes me wish i had a Morbier, which is high on my list of clocks wanted. Laprade what does the train station have to do with Morbier, is it in France. I love all the morbier clocks but the gold coloured ones with the big pendulums the best.
Looks like the train station is in the village of Morez where some of these were made. Best, Richard T.
Kevin, the caption on the postcard, says "Morez" station. Morbier and Morez are only a few klms apart. (Unfortunately, there are no postcards of Morbier on the site.) Pictures show one more comtoise, with a machine pressed dial surround. I don't like to use the term "repousser" for the machine pressings, because friends of mine who execute hand repousser work, get rattled! I wonder how many of the houses in the picture are lived in by clockmakers. ELNE (66065) is in the Pyrénées-Orientales, department (county)
I found this on a site from the Jura, where they still make comtoise clocks. The bottom English language translation is by "google" and leaves a lot to be desired. Histoire. A LA RECHERCHE DU TEMPS PERDU… Notre mouvement est la reproduction fidèle de ceux fabriqués depuis le 17ème siècle. La naissance de ce mécanisme rustique aux rouages rudes, comme le peuple qui le créa, allait en effet bouleverser pendant 2 siècles les régions montagneuses du Jura. Vers 1660, le gardien du couvent des Capucines de St Claude, demanda au curé, si parmi les ouvriers du pays, une personne serait capable de réparer l’horloge de son couvent. Construite en bois, vieille et usée, elle ne pouvait plus se réparer. Le curé conduisit le gardien chez Maillet, forgeron très habile, qui la copia parfaitement comme l’originale mais en fer. Il livra bientôt au public un grand nombre de pièces de sa fabrication. C’est en 1675 que l’application du pendule (balancier) employé en premier par GALILEE dans ses observations astronomiques (1575) fut monté sur son mécanisme. Tel fut le commencement de l’horloge comtoise. Actuellement on appelle horloge comtoise, l’ensemble mouvement et ébénisterie. Les balanciers des mouvements comtois étant sensibles aux courants d’air, les caisses d’horloges en bois apparurent pour les protéger, au début très sobres, droites sans aucune ouverture, puis au 18ème siècle, suivant le style du moment. Au 19ème siècle, les balanciers s’élargissent et les ébénisteries prennent la forme «*violon*», forme galbée, plus harmonieuse. * * * * * History. IN SEARCH OF LOST TIME ... Our movement is a faithful reproduction of those produced since the 17th century. The birth of this mechanism rustic rough workings, as the people who created him, was indeed upset for 2 centuries the Jura mountains. In 1660, the guardian of the Capuchin Convent of St. Claude, asked the priest, if among the workers of the country, a person would be able to repair the clock in her convent. Built of wood, old and worn, she could no longer be repaired. The priest led the guard at Maillet, very skilful blacksmith, who copied the original as well but iron. He soon gave the public a large number of parts manufacture. In 1675 the application of the pendulum (pendulum) first used by Galileo in his astronomical observations (1575) was mounted on its mechanism. This was the beginning of the grandfather clock. Currently known grandfather clock, all movement and cabinetry. The rocking movements comtois being sensitive to drafts, crates of wooden clocks appeared to protect them, at first very simple, straight without any opening and then the 18th century, the style of the moment. In the 19th century, pendulums and widen the trim takes the form of "violin", curved shape, more harmonious. I find it odd that they use the term "violin", as I can't emember seeing a violin of that shape. Most people I now, call the case "lyre" style! Pictures of an empty oval dial case I bought a couple of years ago. I have to reduce the height of the bell stand to get the movement to fit. The case is unusual, in that it has cut-outs for the pendulum swing. Most "lyre" cases have thin "steam bent" sides, to accommodate the swing. The case is of pine, with oak graining. The movement was sold in Bergerac in the department (county) of the Dordogne (24). Bergerac is famous for two decent wines:Bergerac (red and white) and Monbazillac (dessert white wine).
I have been looking for them in my "history" but nothing. After a long search, I googled the whole first para, and got it: http://horloge-comtoise-horloger-horloges.horloge-comtoise.fr/histoire.htm I had thought there was a link in the text, but after posting it, i saw it wasn't there. Richard wants comtoises posted, and the only way to keep the thread up front is to keep it interesting and active. I can't understand why others haven't posted.
Since this thread is started, I thought I would post a photo of one I am working on with three bells. Does anyone have one like this? I need to know the strike sequence.
A few years ago, I got a sudden interest in Comtoise clocks and was directed to a trustworthy man at the ESRegional who just happened to have one for sale. I was smitten, and after much conversation, bought it. Now I am not sure what part of the transaction was luckiest for me; the new friend I acquired or the clock. I think highly of them both! The clock runs great, with LOUD double strike, and verge escapement. I also have both of Mr. Seymours well written books. Although the pressed pendulums are beautiful, but I am partial to my hinged one.
Wow; "ballistarious" aka Aitor, knows a fair bit about the 3 bell Comtoises. The two sub bells are usually for "ting-tang" striking; Have a look at his thread:- http://www.mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=57094 Another one for the road: it seems to be arbitary as to how many weights are on the strike levers. This clock was sold in La Trémblade in the Charente-Maritime (17) in the region of Poitou-Charente, not too far from where I am at this moment. It is near Marennes, where the oyster industry is based, in the Arondisment of Rochfort, where the amazing Royal Ropery is. There are no post cards for la Trémblade,: So one of Rochfort instead. The famous town of La Rochelle is also not far from there. A note about the place names on the clocks. In each commune there is one commune village, the other settlements are “hamlets”, so all commercial activity is based in the main village, which gives its name to the commune. When searching for Fench villages, look for the list of communes.
Man, you guys are teasing me so bad. I really want a Comtoise, but they tend to be just a bit more than I'm willing to pay. I could have had one that was absolutely gorgeous in every aspect, but I let it slip away.
When I was editing the pictures for this post, I discovered that I did in fact have a comtoise with calendar! The clock shown was sold in Salviac in the Lot (46), in the province of Aquitaine. (no post card). The area was written about, very well, by an American author from Maine, Michal Saunders. "From here you can't see Paris", 2002, a very good read. He stayed in a village, Les Arques, in the same canton. ( the book is somewhere else, so I don't know the ISBN) Post card of Morez, showing two viaducts that help the railway over the mountain passes. The second viaduct is up in the top right! The clock seller's name "BALDY Jeune", means the son of Baldy, Young Baldy, his father's surname, not the state of his head!
An old one with calendar: This one is a spring-wind mech. with repeater and hour and half-hour strike. It's a new skeleton dial that I chose to show off the nice movement. http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/57759769.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1266291709&Signature=3DOMtaJYQTaDy2k57JlqI0Xw3GM%3D A new one with an original, handmade mech:
Laprade, wow, how much do you ask for it? (just kidding) Yes, it is a month going rusty comtoise and a beautiful one Month-going Comtoises have an additional wheel on each train. That's why the winding holes are placed so low on them. I'll try to post some pics of my Comtoise here, but I never find time to record them properly... Aitor
I have only decent pics of this one. A nice one. Circa 1840, Two trains. Verge escapement. Calendar and quarter striking on two bells. Brass winding drums grooved, like on British clocks. Enamelled dial and pressed brass surround both signed. Movement is viewed from the back. My apologies for the excessive flash light. You can see the system for engaging and disengaging hour striking on the big bell and quarter striking on the two smaller ones (of course, only the first three quarters are striken, as it happens on two-trained clocks) Aitor
Hope there is no emphasis on Your Comtoise in this thread,´cause this is not mine,but I thought it´s interesting.First view:German box clock,but the winding holes are a bit strange.Have You ever seen something like this?Hope You enjoy! Burkhard
Sorry,Harold,no idea,as usual with comtoises no mark or logo inside,neither main mvmt.nor additional westminster chime work,no signature on the dial.The quarter mvmt.looks verry professionaly executed,and the material matches that of the main mvmt.,so I guess they started life together.The sound is deep and nice,allthough the action of the mvmt.is a bit louder than e.g. in my Vedettes. Burkhard Excuse my stupidity,but:Who´s Rube Goldberg? B.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg He is usually referred to in regards to cobbled together devices, which is my first thought of your clock. It appears to have been put together by someone who knew their way around clockmaking.
The clock shown by Burkhard is a Morez Westminster chiming clock that is original as we see it in the photo. The exact same movement and what appears to be the same basic case is shown in Comtoise Clocks, The Morbier, The Morez, Maitzner & Moreau, page 251, 253 & 255. The paragraph heading is as follows: Chime Clock "Sablier". A complete description of the movement is given including numbers of teeth and number of pinion leaves of each wheel. There are many combinations of bells, calendars etc. of Comtoise clocks that were made. I haven't personally seen any of the more complicated ones. Best, Richard T.
Interesting, Richard. I am guessing this clock would date to the 1920-30's by the case style? Probably not very common.
Since it strikes on rods it would have to be after 1890 if I remember correctly. I would think somewhere around 1920 (guess). I agree, probably not very common. Best, Richard T.
Neat clock Burkhard.I have seen the spring driven morbiers but this one has extra goodies.very nice and very rare i am sure.
I inherited this French Case Clock and I know little about it! It one time stood in President Taft's summer home in Beverly Mass. Any one have any clues. Many Thanks Peter Cunningham Fairhope, AL peterc6@bellsouth.net
Hi Peter, Is this a brass inlays or marketrie over the cental part on the case? Dial has a center second hand? PS Very nice clocks! Regards, Oleg
It has brass inlays all over. It does have a second hand. The works are being repaired by a local clock master. Have you any idea wheere it might have been made? Thanks for the reply! Peter
They are definatelly of French origin, and actually there were such Comtoise movements with a centre seconds made starting from second half of 18th century. They had a pinweel escapment with center placed pinwheel of which the axe has been extended through the centers of the minute pipe and hour wheel. It would be VERY interesting to see your clocks movement! Colleagues will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that case style of your clocks is also from 18th century. By the way, these brass inlays looks much brighter when polished with brass cleaner And clocks looks completely different after that. Here you can find many interesting facts about Comtoise clocks and movements http://www.antique-horology.org/_Editorial/Comtoise/Intro.htm Oleg
Unusual comtoise Many years ago I bought this unusual 2-train comtoise movement with a flat enamel dial, minus hands, weights and pendulum. I managed to replace the missing parts and the clock runs and strikes without problem. However the clock has been in storage since the last twenty odd years and has never been use. The reason is that the clock strikes three strokes every five minutes. The 2-train movement is of conventional design except for the following: 1 there is no snail in the strike train 2 there is a 12-pointed star wheel attached to the minute wheel 3 the short vertical rack has only three teeth As can be seen from the pictures the strike train would be activated to strike three blows every 5-minutes. Apparently the clock was not designed for domestic use although the time train with the hour and minute hands can perform the task of a normal clock to tell time. It would appear the clock was designed as a 5-minute timer. So far I have not been able to discover what it was used for. Mun C.W. [FONT="] [/FONT]
Thank you Oleg! The works are at a clock repair shop as we speak. I will take pics of it before we reinstall into the clock base. The trouble with polishing the inlaid brass is the brass cleaned finds its way into every nook on the clock and is almost impossible to remove. I hope someone can come up with more details aout the orgins of this beautiful piece. Peter
I finally have the works back. Attached are some pictures. It is a Morbier Pin driven movement with a second hand. Thank You Peter
Peter, Can we have a shot of the dial. I have a feeling that it might not have been made for the French market. I have seen Swedish and other cases with morbier movements. Is there a French seller's name on the dial?
I posted pictures of the works of my clock. Did you have a chance to view them? Thank You Peter -> posts merged by system <- Attached clock face -> posts merged by system <- No names on the dial or anywhere. Thank You
Peter, forgive me for getting you to re-post the pictures: I didn't register your user name in my mind! The two pictures show 1/ the "sun king emblem" which was for Louis XIV, (and the lower casting is of "Mephistopheles"). If the case is period, i.e. Louis XIV, I would imagine the movement should have a "verge / crown-wheel". The enamelled lozenge numerals were used by quite a few types of clock, and not necessarily French only. I still have a suspicion that the clock might not be French entirely, but that is a personal foible!
Thank you! I notice you fly the Irish flag. I am of Irish decent and in fact spent a summer at Moytura near Cong. It was William Wildes home in 1865. I also attended school at Rockwell near Cashel. Where would I go now to find who made this clock and possibly trace who originally purchesed it? Thank You! Peter
Peter, I was manhandled by Dominicans in Newbridge. We met Rockwell in the Rugby a few times. I just realized that I forgot to post the two pictures: here is the Louis XIV slain lath stephen
We had the Fathers of the Holy Ghost, relatives of the Christian Brothers. They were tough. I still have scars. Thanks for your help! Peter http://www.seanachi.org/rock6.php
Hi Peter! It looks like a very fine made movement with centre pin-wheel conctruction described earlier. I could be wrong but I don't think people here except for Laprade know much about Morbier clocks, especially such old as yours. I suggest you have to contact Bernd Deckert (deckert@comtoise.de) at Morbier Clock Museum, Germany. You can easily write in English. Probably he will be able to advise you regarding correct dating and origin of your clocks. Also here's the link to their Museum: http://www.comtoise.de/comtoise.htm And it will be really nice if you share you're findings with us afterwards =)))) BR, Oleg
Thank you very much! I have sent Herr Deckert via email including pictures. Than k you very much for your kind assistance! Peter
Peter, I didn't get round to answer your question about who sold the clock etc. Most of the late comtoise clocks do have a seller's name, but a lot of the earlier ones didn't. I have two fairly early verge models with no name, and one late one with no name. I show your clock next to another (Empire style-most likely to be First Empire) which has no seller's name. This is possibly because they were made in "Royal workshops" and not sold to a client. Or the name was placed elsewhere and has been removed or lost. Oled, thanks for your vote of confidence, but there are others who read the board, who know somewhat more on the subject. Up til recently, I took comtioses for granted, and even made a complete ass of myself with a lot of misguided nonsense about the spelling. I am famous for being "dyslexic", so much so, an advertising agency in the Uk, once offered a free meal at my restaurant if any customers could spot my bad spelling! I have brought myself up to date, more or less, on the comtoise within the last year, and have found out quite a lot of strange things. Have a look at Jeremy Woodoff's thread "interesting morbier" and compare the image of the clock to the Danish clocks. Morbier / comtoise movements tended to travel!
Your clock is most beautiful! I'm dyslexic in my own way as well! I am looking forward to hearing from Herr Deckerd. I will post any new info! Thanks for your frioendship! Peter -> posts merged by system <- How do I find the thread you referred to? Thanks Peter
Peter, the thread I suggested Oled have a look at is:- http://www.mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=51086&highlight=interesting+morbier&page=2 Oled; Although in one of the posts, I say that I don't have pictures of the clock, I have since discovered that I do, and will email them to you, as, according to Mr. Bain, there is a problem with publication on this board. (I am tracing the owner to get permission.)
I was told to contact you to find the origins of the clock I have pictures of. https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?p=444081#post444081 Please check out this post and followups and see if you might have some ideas. Thank You Peter Cunningham Fairhope, AL This message to Jeremy woodoff.
Laprade, as someone claiming to be an academic of some sort, you should have some knowledge about copyrights, and the fact you cannot just lift pictures or text off the internet without permission from the person who posted them, and credit after permission is granted.
I think, I have one that qualifies as being for this thread. Here it is. Mike. Please let me know what you all think of it date wise etc. I can provide more info if you like.
