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Re: Adjustments, Adjustments, Adjustments..

Paul, if your clock is running too fast and the drive pawl is only picking up one tooth at a time, the isochronous spring has too much tension. Here is the sequence to get these guys running on time:

1) Disconnect the battery.

2) Set the isochronous spring with no tension even at maximum swing, and set the rating nut at the center of travel.

3) Check the silver contact spring to be sure the tension is not set too tight. It should have just enough tension for the loop that sits in the groove of the "Y" yoke arbor to maintain contact and "roll" easily up and down as the pendulum swings. If it is too tight it will bind that 'Y" yoke and reduce pendulum oscillation.

4) Adjust the silver contact pin height so its centerline is just at the shoulder of the silver contact and insulator on the "Y" yoke. Manually move the pendulum from max left to max right and back, the drive pawl should come close to picking up two teeth on the contrate but not quite. IF it is picking up two teeth, raise the contact pin slightly as that reduces the horizontal movement of the "Y" yoke. Now test it by swinging manually only one-half distance from center to side in each direction, and the drive pawl should still pick up one tooth. That should be your normal operation position of the contact pin.

5) You had mentioned earlier about moving the magnet position, be sure it is centered in the hole through the pendulum coil.

6) Reconnect the battery and start the clock. If all is well the clock should run slow. If it doesn't, you will need to lengthen the pendulum assembly by lowering the support rod at the upper connection to the suspension. You need to BE SURE the clock is running slow with no tension on the isochronous spring, otherwise you will not be able to regulate the time. It doesn't take a lot of lowering, only a couple mm or so to get it to run slow in most instances. You will also need to lower the magnet the same amount to keep it centered in the pendulum coil.

7) Once the clock is running slow, now begin to put tension on the isochronous spring. Adding tension speeds up the clock, reducing tension slows it down. This is trial and error. Make an adjustment and check the rate. If still too slow, add more tension, etc until you have the clock running within about 4 minutes per day (10 seconds per hour) either fast or slow. At that point you can do the fine tuning using the rating nut. One full turn of the rating nut will give you about 1-1/2 minutes per day or less, so as you can see it is NOT to be used for anything other than fine tuning. The isochronous spring is the KEY to getting these clocks to run to time.

NOTE: It is seldom one of these will initially run so slow that you can't bring it to time with the isochronous spring. The main reason for this to happen is when the suspension unit has too much gap between the upper and lower chops. As noted earlier that needs to be 1 mm or slightly less. The second most frequent problem is the pendulum being too long, that just needs to be shortened using the upper connection mentioned in Item 6 above. Too much friction in the "Y" yoke arbor will reduce pendulum oscillation as mentioned above and this can add to the problem. The only other situation found occasionally is that someone has swapped the movement for one that uses a shorter pendulum, in which case there is no hope of making it run fast enough. Remember the movements are NOT interchangeable between the full size, intermediate or clockette models since the gearing in the contrate and motion works is set for the pendulum length for those models.

Hope this will help, let us know if you have any questions.

 

Re: Dating Bulle clocks

Great collection, especially the Garniture "Lion au Serpent"! I recognize all the models you have, would very much appreciate if you could provide serial numbers corresponding with each clock From that I can provide accurate dating and likely other info regarding each one.

 

Re: Dating Bulle clocks

Thanks much for the serial number info. I'll add my dating and comments for each clock.

One question, does the last clock have a door on the back of the case? Same question for the chromed version.

I'll look forward to the info for the last clock.

 

Re: Bulle clock questions

Timesavers also carries both the iso and contact springs.

 

Re: Bulle 177174

OK, I'll comment on the large gold Bulle in my next post to go together with the movement photos you posted.

Thanks for posting this wood case wall model, which is a variant of the Model Ba illustrated in the Bulle 1926 Catalog. The catalog illustration is for a plain wood case version, yours has the stamped wood moldings and side impressions, a very attractive clock indeed. The plain case version was first used in 1920, Bulle's inaugural year of production. The last year any version of this case has been recorded is 1928.

This one was made some time between mid-1924 and the end of 1926 based on two pieces of information:

* First is the type of pendulum coil cover, a black enamel on brass. That was first introduced late in the April-June quarter of 1924.

* Second is that when serial numbers reached 100001, Bulle started stamping them on left rear of the back movement plate. For a time they stamped both front and back, in later years it was on the back only. The transition started at the beginning of 1927.

The missing digit in your serial number could be a 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9, quite a wide spread but as I've noted this covers only a 2-1/2 year production period. Should you have the opportunity to remove the dial and the nut on the left movement support post you will be able to see what number is actually there. It would be appreciated if that can be done some time at your convenience.

 

Re: Bulle

Thanks much for the detailed photos of the movement and the information that the last four digits of the serial number are "0092". I had mentioned earlier that this clock was a model "H" 4-Glass and Gilt Brass crystal regulator style clock, after consideration of this new information I have some other interesting information. Consider the following:

* The lowest recorded serial number for a movement with the "double pawl" escapement drive pawl mechanism is 15325. Your clock has this type of escapement. All clocks made prior to this number have a "pawl plus weight" drive mechanism or other earlier designs. From this information we can positively conclude that the serial number for your clock cannot be "10092", since a completely different escapement design was being used when that movement was built.

* The highest serial number previously documented for the dial logo "MFB" is 17318, made right at the end of 1921. Your clock has that logo, which indicates almost certainly that the missing digit is "2", being the next in series after five-digit serial numbers starting with "1". That would show your serial number is "20092", made near the beginning of 1922.

* The lowest serial number previously recorded for a model "H" clock is 26674 made in the July-September quarter of 1922.

There is little to no possibility of the missing digit being a "3", as the dial stamps had changed almost universally to "BULLE-CLOCK Brevete S.G.D.G. Patented" by the time that movement would have been made near the end of 1922.

Additional info regarding what I call the "MFB" logo is that the highly stylized "MFB" is the three letters of Bulle's full name, Maurice Favre-Bulle. The logo includes the word "Patent" above the "F" in the center, and the abbreviations "Bte. S.G.D.G" incorporated at the bottom as extensions of the letters "M" and "B". The "Bte" stands for Brevete or Patented in French, and "S.G.D.G" is for "Sans Garantie du Gouvernment" or "Without Government Guarantee", which was a requirement of the French patent office when reference was made to a French patent. Here is a close-up photo of the logo on an early dial:


Presuming the serial number is confirmed, you have not only the earliest example so far documented for the model "H" 4-Glass and Gilt Brass case, but also the last known commercial use of the MFB logo. Also, the movement is one of the earliest commercial versions of the Bulle double pawl drived mechanism.

 

Re: Bulle magnet question

Thanks for posting the links to Peter's downloads page. For info to all, he also has a 1940 catalog, some advertisements, and post WWII sale brochures that can be used for identification purposes. There is also a Bulle restoration tutorial in five parts that shows you just about everything you need to know for service and repair of a Bulle. The most impressive (to me) part of the website is the PDF files for many of the clocks he has restored.

 

Mark, I think the red numbers on Devore's Bulle have been added on. From my database, the only Bulle clocks with 24-Hr dials I have documented thus far are both of the two standard size Kosta Boda Crystal Dome models. About 3/4 of them do have the 24 Hr dial as you have pointed out for the two other examples. Here is a photo of one of mine:

Note that the 13-24 hour numbers are stamped in the metal dial just like the main Arabic hour numbers, and then filled with black lacquer after the dial was silvered. The red numbers on Devore's dial appear to be either painted on or are transfers/decals. Note the 24 overlaps the Bulle Patent logo whereas in the one I've pictured it fits neatly between the logo and the "12".

The dials used for the crystal dome models that don't have the 13-24 numbers are identical to Devore's dial but without the numbers.

Devore, if you will provide the serial number of the movement I can date your clock. Also do you have the dome? Photos would be appreciated. Here is a bit of history:

ALL the Bulle clocks with the heavy cut lead crystal domes were actually made by the Kosta Boda crystal company of Sweden, between 1927 and 1930. They designed the bases and domes of three different models, purchased the movements, dials, and pendulum/magnet assemblies from Bulle and then assembled the clocks at Kosta Boda. These were sold only through Kosta Boda retail outlets and are not shown in any known Bulle catalog or sales brochure, but do appear in Kosta Boda brochures and contemporary ads. While many of the domes share similar design patterns, no two are exactly alike as they were all hand-cut crystal.

The three models include:

>> A standard size "D" dome profile model. The base is of flat curved design in a matching "D" profile and is of fine wood. It was offered in Ebony, Walnut, and Mahogany. This model was made from near the beginning of 1927 to mid-first half 1929. Serial numbers will be between 120.000 and 180.000 based on present data.

>> A Clockette size "O" dome profile miniature model. The dome and base is perfectly oval and was finished with gold leaf as the only option. This model was made in second quarter 1929 only, with serial numbers between 193.000 and 201.000 based on present data.

>> A standard size "O" dome profile model. The dome and base is perfectly oval, the base being flared with three built-in legs, and was offered only in ebony finish. This model was made from mid-1929 to the end of 1930, with serial numbers between 202.000 and 265.000 based on present data.

Altogether perhaps 15,000 clocks in total with these stunning domes were made. I need more data before trying to make more accurate projections of the production.

 

Re: Bulle clock questions

Peter, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your Bulle travel clock. There were at least two models of these little clocks that used the same basic movement design. As can be seen in your photo of the back of the movement the lever arrangement there provides for simultaneously locking the pendulum in place and disconnecting the battery. Once locked, the clock can then be safely moved to any new location, set in place, and the levers unlocked to restart the clock. All that would then be needed is to close the cover and set the time. This design feature would allow these to be classified as travel clocks although I doubt they were normally used for that purpose.

My database now has five of these clocks including yours. Four of them have the identical case design and veneered wood construction as yours, however one of these has an Art Deco marquetry style veneer instead of the burl rosewood with boxwood inlay pattern like yours.



The fifth clock has a closed nickeled brass case with a translucent white dial and a press-fit back cover but has the same movement design.



Among these five clocks there are three different contact designs so it is obvious they had not standardized on a single design at the time. Here are photos of the three designs:

The first to the left has the contact arm extended to about twice the length of your but would otherwise operate the same. The contact spring for this one "would" be in a vertical position but isn't present. The second version is an "I" shape contact plate that oscillates to contact a silver pin to the top left, and in the other direction just the insulator block at the bottom left. The contact spring for this one is at a 45 degree angle and attached to what appears to be the correct holding arm. The third is the same as your s but uses a plastic "Y" yoke, note that the contact spring is horizontal as yours should be.

Based on the serial numbers all of these clocks were made in the first half of 1931. Yours with serial number 274758 was made in the January-March quarter of that year. The highest serial number so far is 277746. None of these have been found in any of the catalogs or advertisements I presently have available so my guess is they weren't good sellers and thus weren't made for very long at all. Using the serial numbers now documented my estimate is that that not more than 1,500 in total were made.

One thing I have found is that these run very well on a 1-1/2 volt battery, I have one and use a two-cell plastic holder with the contacts wired in parallel. That provides for at least a year of operation.

 

Re: Bulle clock questions

Steve, thanks for posting the photo of your Bulle Gallery clock. Based on the serial number it was made in the April-June quarter of 1924. I don't have any exact model illustration in any of the Bulle sales catalogs or other literature that I have so can't help with a model name or number.

Is the case made of metal or wood? A side view and a view with the bezel open, or especially if you have photos of the movement with the dial removed that would be most appreciated. What is the diameter, overall and of the dial just outside the minute ring? That may help me find more info.

 

Re: Newbie needs help

Ian, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for your inquiring and for posting the photos of your MIL's Bulle, and congratulations on getting it to run. That's usually the biggest hurdle, after that we can usually find how to bring the clock to time.

Based on the movement serial number, the clock was made in the April-June quarter of 1924, just a little later than Steve Wolf's clock I just posted about. This is the third clock of this exact case design I have documented so far, so it's not really very common. The other two were made in 1927 and 1929.

You asked about whether the gear count is correct for this movement. Since it is within 15 minutes per day, there is no question it has the correct gearing. A change to the gearing of either the larger standard model or any of the smaller Clockette models would have you off by an hour or more per day.

First things first, I recommend you do the check that Tinker has proposed to be sure you aren't missing any teeth. There won't be any assurance with even a half-hour check and "going blind" while watching the action. Also it will give you a base line from which to do the adjustments I have outlined below.

I've looked closely at the photos you posted to see what I might observe about why it is running slow. Before going into the detail, I expect you have already found that using the rating nut will not speed up the clock enough to compensate for it being 15 min. per 24 hr slow. For this clock, one full turn of the rating nut will only change the rate by 2 minutes in 24 hours, not nearly enough to bring the clock to time from where you are by using that method.

Now let's look at other possibilities:

1) You have observed that the drive pawl is picking up one tooth at a time on the escape contrate wheel, so that can be eliminated.

2) It appears the pendulum assembly is about as short as it can be made and the pendulum coil is centered on the magnet, so there isn't much if any room to shorten that. Shortening the pendulum "will" speed up the clock but this is normally not a factor.

3) The suspension unit supporting the pendulum has the correct gap between the upper and lower brass chops and you mentioned it was new so no problem there.

4) I see there is yet plenty of adjustment room to add tension to the isochronous spring, possibly up to 5 or 6 mm. That's the spring connected between the back of the movement and the front pendulum rod. Adding tension to this spring will speed up the clock. That is achieved by lowering the isochronous spring clamp on the front pendulum rod, which will speed up the clock about 5 min. per 24 hr. per millimeter of additional spring length.

Point 4 is the key to getting your clock to run to time, since it appears to be running steadily and not missing any teeth on the contrate wheel.

You need to lower the isochronous spring clamp to speed up the clock. This stretches the spring and thus increases tension. If you need to slow down, the reverse is true. This really a trial and error affair but my experience shows the approximate rate change you get with each mm of adjustment as noted above. You will need to make small adjustments each time and carefully record the actual time gain or loss per 24 hours after each change. These adjustments must be made with the pendulum rating nut in its present position.

Please note that before you try to use the rating nut on the bottom of the pendulum coil, you need to get within about 2 or 3 minutes per day of correct time by adjusting the isochronous spring. When you are within that range, either slightly slow or slightly fast, first let the clock run for a few days to "settle in" so you can be sure no further adjustment is needed to the isochronous spring. Then you can use the rating nut to make fine adjustments.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

Re: Newbie needs help

Ian, I'm quite tardy in responding to this message, but thanks for the update on your first clock and for posting the photos of your "new" model A2 with the "800 Days" dial. Based on the serial number it was made in late 1929.

This one appears to be complete and interesting due to the simplified wiring at the top to connect to the pendulum rod and coil. It appears to be a straight-forward Clockette model otherwise. Perhaps by now you've completed the restoration and could show us some "after" photos.

Regarding the dial, I would polish the bezel and then gently clean the dial with warm soapy water. DO NOT SCRUB! Just use a very soft cotton cloth (old tee-shirt) for both cleaning and drying. Otherwise, there's not much can be done to one with this finish except for a complete restoration that is relatively expensive. Others reading this may have some more advice.

 

Re: Newbie needs help

Ian, thanks for posting the completed clock. Great job!! This particular model is especially attractive to me.

We will look forward to seeing your progress on the Model A2 207134 and now the wood case one serial number 192092. Post photos and we will try to identify the model and such.

 

Re: Newbie needs help

Peter, very interesting indeed! Especially the dated presentation plaque, which as you have surmised is some kind of service award, my guess would be a retirement gift since no specific number of years is mentioned. Your solution for the battery connection is excellent, I'm putting that one in my "how to do it" file.

The fork construction is common in the earlier clocks. The "s" shaped contact appeared in the late 1920's but I haven't tracked that particular detail. Now I need to review my archives and add this to the data as it does seem to be a change that can be readily dated.

Pleased to hear it is running well, congratulations on your work!

I'll be back to comment on your latest discovery. I've seen only two other clocks so far with this exact movement, which definitely is based on Bulle principles but completely unlike the "usual" Bulle movements. I don't think it is one of he Brazilian clocks, since they did not have authorization to use the Bulle name and sold their clocks under other trade names such as "Alto Relogios". More later.

 

KPN, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for posting, and please do post some photos of your clock. Regarding when it was made the info on Antiques Price Guide is out of date, that was one of my early efforts and needs updating. I'll contact them and provide my latest revised dating guide, which shows your clock was manufactured about 1949 based on the serial number.

For info, the highest serial number recorded to date is 348068. That clock was made in 1951 based on a dated presentation inscription on the clock. Several other clocks with serial numbers above 330000 have been documented, so I have revised the total made to about 350,000 when production ceased in 1954.

The movement you describe appears to be one of the "miniature" models having a cobalt steel magnet. This version was patented around 1930 and manufactured from that time until the factory closed in 1954. There "should" be provision for the isochronous spring to be installed, although a prior owner or repair person may have removed it not understanding how important it is to obtain accurate timing.