Post Your BHA Logo (by Becker) 400-Day Clocks Here

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by zepernick, May 27, 2006.

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  1. marylander

    marylander Registered User

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    Mike, You have a very beautiful clock. I used alum to dissolve the steel screws on the top of the front plate in a week. Both screw were steel. I had to do these on 1907 and 1908 JUF clocks. You can double check you clock to see if they are steel screw. I am quite sure they are steel screw.
    Ming
     
  2. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Mike, thanks for posting your BHA clock, this is number 101 in our BHA database. Based on the serial number yours was made about mid-2nd half 1907. Having the two GB logos drilled off appears to be common for clocks in this serial number range, as this has now been documented three times within a 600-clock series. Lowest serial number to date for this is 1998694, yours is the highest at 1999249. Serial number 1999251 is a normal GB clock. I have no idea why these were drilled off unless it was a request from BHA.

    The pendulum disc having the same serial number as the movement shows it is original equipment. Is the screw that holds the pendulum disc to the gallery center shaft broken off or is it just missing? You mention it broken but no photo of that. I agree with Ming that the screws that hold the crown in place should be steel, you can check that with a magnet. Alum is the best option for removing the remnants in both cases.

    Your clock will actually clean up quite nicely (with a lot of elbow grease, of course!) as these were made with good quality brass and take a very good shine when cleaned and polished. Keep us informed of your progress.
     
  3. mike19258

    mike19258 Registered User

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    Hi thanks for the info and yes the screw in the pendulum is broken here is a photo does anyone know what thread and style of head this screw should be so I can find a replacement. Mike

    174.jpg
     
  4. Sahgal

    Sahgal New Member

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    I have one 400 day with Sr no 2141442 with no marking other than BHA within a cranellated oval mark on the back plate. Movement is by GB. Any idea about year of Manufacture?
     
  5. Sahgal

    Sahgal New Member

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    Re: BHA

    Dear John,
    My clock with Sr No 2141442 (BHA) appears to be identical to the one shown in the photos here. The sr no on the disk pendulum base is hand inscribed but in a Germanic handwriting - it is not stamped into the base. The BHA logo is where shown in the photo and the finials etc and dial is exactly the same. I have had it for over 30 years - ran fine all through. Accidentally broke the torsion spring recently. Kindly advise thickness / size to order from Horlovar Company. Regds Sahgal
     
  6. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Date is 1909, I am sure John will be more exact. These clocks almost always recquire the Horolovar 0.0045" spring, but thinned to 0.0041/2". If you are extremely lucky you might find a 0.0040" will get you in range.
     
  7. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: BHA

    Sahgal, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry. Les has already provided the info you will need to order a new suspension spring, as he points out even though a 0.0040 is recommended in the Horolovar 400-Day Clock Repair Guide 10th Edition, the stronger 0.0045 may be required but that one has to be thinned to bring the clock to time. The procedure for doing this can be found using a search of this forum, but if you have any difficulties please let us know so we can assist.

    Your clock is number 106 in our database, and it has been more than six months since a "new" one has been posted here. Thanks again for posting. Your clock was made about mid-first half 1910 based on the serial number. Even though you have given a good description in comparison with Michael Davies' clock, it would be very much appreciated if you could post photos here for us to see. There may be some small differences that willl show up in the photos.

    With regard to the serial number on the bottom of the pendulum, these were all etched or scratched in and not stamped. A few have been found that were written in with India Ink, and about 5% are found with no serial number indicated. However, if you find any Gustav Becker clock that has the serial number marked either by etching or using ink and the pendulum number matches the one on the back of the movement, you can be reasonably assured they started life together.
     
  8. damiangotch

    damiangotch Registered User

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    Early BHA Becker SNo 1914569

    Guys,

    I have just found a BHA marked Becker that is much earlier than the one on this thread so I have posted details for your database. It is serial number 1914569 and has its matching pendulum it has the BD logos machined off but has BHA mark is normal large type rather than the logo form generally seen.
    Perhaps this was from an early sample batch?

    Your comments and dating would be appreciated. I will clean it up and post the finished results soon.

    May I say that this forum is brilliant and I have identified many acquisitions from it.

    Best regards,
    Damian
     

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  9. damiangotch

    damiangotch Registered User

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    Early BHA Becker

    John,

    I have posted full details in the BHA thread of an early BHA marked Gustav Becker Serial number 1914569 I bought from a clock fair in Birmingham UK yesterday, it appears to be much earlier than any of the previous clocks reported so may be of interest to you.
    BR,
    Damian
     

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  10. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: Early BHA Becker SNo 1914569

    Damian, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and in particular to the 400-Day Forum. Thanks very much for your consideration regarding documentation of these unique clocks, and also for posting the photos of your clock. Without question it is the earliest BHA logo GB yet documented. Based on the serial number, it was made about June 1906, eight months before the previous "first" example that was made about February 1907. That adds to the historical info regarding GB's relations with BHA, now confirmed to have been from 1906 to 1917. A little known fact is that GB (or their representative) continued sales of their clocks into England during most of WWI. I have documented several clocks that were given as gifts with appropriate inscriptions, dated from 1915 through 1918, and the serial numbers correspond with being produced during the war.

    I agree with your thought that this may have been a prototype or sample, certainly one of the first clocks made for sale to BHA. The two GB logos being milled out makes it somewhat unusual however that may have happened after the clock was sold to BHA. I have two other BHA examples made in third quarter 1907 that also have the GB logos milled out, however they have the "standard" BHA logo in an oval wreath, and happen to be the first two with the logo placed at the left side of the plate as shown in Plate 1032A. It isn't known by whom or why these logos were destroyed, but this appears on a number of GB clocks made in the period from 1900 to the early 1920's; I have now over twenty clocks of all types documented with this defacement.

    Only one question, is whether there is any decorative piece mounted below the dial on your clock? Most early Beckers had this present or at least the threaded holes in the front plate where one could be mounted. In your photo of the dial that area is covered by the bezel, a photo from the front would be appreciated as well as one photo of the complete clock from the front.
     
  11. damiangotch

    damiangotch Registered User

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    John,

    This is fantastic, I thought it was something special when I spotted it. I have restored 2 other GB clocks and have a third on the go, these are all post 2000000 serial numbers, we have also restored a lovely Hauck (21617) and an SuP, this was identified from the very informative thread, plus a number of JUF, Badische and K&O clocks. It is a fantastic hobby and this forum is a fantastic repository of historical data.

    Back to the BHA, yes it does have the two holes below the dial, see photos P1030944/46, but no decorative piece so perhaps BHA did not want this fitted, the holes appear drilled but not threaded. The drilled out logos look to consistent from the photos I have seen so I would think they were done in the factory, I assume that the plates were made well in advance with the markings and serial numbers and then modified for the special orders. Pity because it does detract from the look and it does look like defacement.

    I have added a few photos of my other clocks.

    Thanks again,
    Damian
     

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  12. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Damian, thanks much for posting the additional photos confirming the presence of the décor mounting holes.

    Also, thanks for posting your other clocks. I would appreciate if you could post each of these in a separate thread in the forum so they can be fully documented, showing front, back plate, etc. The Hauck should be posted on the "Post Your Hauck 400-Day" and the SuP you mention on the "Post Your SuP 400-Day" thread. Your Hauck was made in 1908 based on the serial number, and may have a serial number stamped under the bottom of the disc pendulum. The serial number of the JUF may place it near the first one having the patent 4-Ball pendulum, which was the first model patented by JUF in November 1909. The Badische may have a serial number stamped either on the inside or the outside of the back plate, that could help with fixing a manufacturing date.

    Posting the other clocks in your collection would also be appreciated for documentation purposes.
     
  13. damiangotch

    damiangotch Registered User

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    John,
    Here are the photos of the BHA clock 1914569 restored to it full glory!
    Damian
     

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  14. damiangotch

    damiangotch Registered User

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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    John,
    Thanks for the detailed info on the Pendulum design, I have a number of them, 2136159 is the common type, but the BHA serial number 1914569 has a different design, this has a two part disk that is folded and crimped (or possibly brazed) but with the standard gallery without the fixing screws. Photos of two types attached.

    Best regards,
    Damian
     

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  15. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    Damian, thanks for posting. The first pendulum 2136159 is the "standard" pendulum 23E disc design, with the bottom cover fitting inside the upper disc shell. That design is typical of pendulums 23C, 23D, 23E, 23F, and 23G.

    The BHA pendulum with the bottom being a complete spun or pressed brass shell fitting into a spun brass upper cover is actually the same as the 23B design (bottom shells are the same) but the top part of of the 23B is turned from a solid brass plate and the outer edge is impressed with a rope or corded pattern, whereas yours is like the top of a 23E with a thin brass top part with no beading or cording on the outer rim. I have seen one other example of this design but had not classified it since it was significantly different from the others. This design will likely need to be classified as a new variant of 23E.

    I would appreciate if you could show photos of the disassembled disc to view its interior, how the bottom cover is held in place, etc.
     
  16. damiangotch

    damiangotch Registered User

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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    John,

    Wow this is very interesting indeed,

    I have a hypothesis -

    It is 1907 and GB have been approached by BHA to supply clocks for import into USA. This will reduce the profit margin so they need to reduce the costs. They are still using the expensive turned disc and the ornate gallery with the fixing screws and so design a new pendulum. The sample batch (including 1914569) use a new pendulum made as two part spun brass.
    The lower part has space for the lead weight and a flat steel plate, the upper part has shallow rim which when assembled with the disk weight and the lower shell is folded under to permanently fix the parts together.
    The gallery is changed to use a central bar and holes for the turned pillars.

    The samples have the GB logos removed to avoid confusion with the existing clocks and BHA stamped on the plate.

    Later by the time the production qty is supplied the complex crimping has been removed and the two half shell simply overlap and fixed with the central screw.
    At some point also the adjuster weights are screwed together rather than turned from a single piece. The BHA logo has been incorporated but the machined out GB logos are continued until the qty's justify modified plates.

    Looking at the photos I have taken, it is clear the disk cannot be separated, the upper part is noticeably thicker brass than the later version. The diameter of the upper section of the later design is larger to overlap the lower part. The thickness of the outer ring is larger on the old design as I believe it caters for the thicker brass and the lip of the lower section.

    The photos should be self explanatory the serial 2136158 is labelled 'Later' and the BHA 1914569 'BHA'

    Not sure if your data can support or contradict this idea?

    Best regards,
    Damian
     

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  17. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    Damian, the pendulum on your early BHA is I believe a prototype that preceeded the manufacture of pendulum 23E, which as you propose may well have been introduced based on a request from BHA. In digging through my archives I found one other of these than yours on a clock made very shortly after yours but not for BHA. The "final" design for No. 23E came immediately after that and appeared on several regular GB clocks before showing up "in quantity" on BHA clocks.

    For this design, here are the serial numbers and dates:

    1914569, for BHA: Prototype 23E, made mid-second quarter 1906
    1914591, regular GB: Prototype 23E, made mid-second quarter 1906
    1914620, regular GB: Final design 23E, made mid-second quarter 1906

    The differences between the prototype and the final design are as per your photos. The prototype has a complete bottom shell that fits into a thin upper cover that is crimped onto the bottom shell. The final design has a stamped/spun bottom cover with flanged sides, that fits closely within a spun upper shell with side flanges reaching to the bottom of the disc. Both have a steel disc the fits just under the upper shell which provides stiffness to the disc, and a lead ring to provide the peripheral mass needed for good rate control of the clock.

    Timewise, it appears that BHA contacted GB early in 1906 with a proposal for them to make clocks for BHA with the BHA logo on the back plate. By the way, these were for import into the UK and not to the USA. Your clock is one of the prototypes that was made for BHA, with the GB logos milled out and the prototype "inexpensive" pendulum. It is notable that the final design would have been easier and less expensive to fabricate than the prototype.

    After this, the first "production versions" of the BHA clocks started with serial number 1957999 made at the beginning of 1907 and using the final version of 23E. Of interest, that pendulum continued in production until the end of 1932 when 400-Day clock production was stopped.

    With regard to when each design was introduced and how long it was used, my data show the following in chronological order:

    23A: Second quarter 1902, last used 1907
    23B: Second quarter 1905. last used 1910
    23E: Second quarter 1906, last used 1932
    23C: Fourth quarter 1907, last used 1913
    23D: Second quarter 1909, last used 1932
    23F: Mid-1923, last used 1932
    23G: Third quarter 1928, last used 1932

    At the time I first had identified each version (almost 15 years ago) I had expected to find progressively less expensive construction and the data I had at the time confirmed that. As more extensive data was compiled it became evident that pendulum No. 23E was made earlier than 23D or 23C, but the connection with BHA wasn't evident yet. In fact, since the disc part of all models made after 23E was developed are essentially identical (the edge of model No. 23C has ribbing, the others are smooth) I will leave the designations as they are for the time being since the numbers of each is very large. However, before I get to actual publication I'll need to restructure my database to put them in the correct order and tell the story connected to their development.
     
  18. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    Another BHA for John to catalogue. Saw it at Birmingham clock fair a few weeks ago, but did not have enough spare cash with me to buy. It turned up on Ebay a few weeks later and the seller accepted my modest offer. Unfortunately the suspension spring got trashed in transport, and I was lucky to find the fork in the packaging. The suspension guard is missing, but I do have a spare. Some very odd headed screws in the suspension guard pillars, most likely not original. The serial no. is 2141676 and the matching number is etched on the underside of the pendulum.

    One of three clocks now in the queue for restoration.

    P1000086.jpg

    P1000089.jpg P1000088.jpg P1000087.jpg
     
  19. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    Les, another great find for the BHA records! This one has the exact Plate 1032, the last of six variants of the BHA logo plates illustrated in the Repair Guide. Also, it's one of the few found so far with the turned marble base. One question, the color appears to be primarily black with a bit of green plus the lighter variegations typically found, is this an accurate description?

    The serial number puts this one being made in 1st quarter 1910, and for those keeping track this makes 112 BHA logo GB clocks recorded in the database.
     
  20. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    There is only the slightest hint of green to the overall tinge
     
  21. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    One question, the color appears to be primarily black with a bit of green plus the lighter variegations typically found, is this an accurate description?

    [/QUOTE]

    The "green-ness" does vary considerably on the type and quality of light. In bright light it is predominately black and shades of grey. In poorer light the green is more apparent.
     
  22. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: A Pair of Gustav Beckers

    Interesting. Thanks for the followup. I've got a Grivolas with what might be the same type of black/green marble and it does the same thing.
     
  23. Claire Lucchina

    Claire Lucchina Registered User

    Mar 8, 2013
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    160150.jpg 160151.jpg 160152.jpg 160153.jpg


    I was told this clock was made by Gustav Becker although it's only marked BHA. Is this true? Does anyone know an estimated value of this clock? *BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass Dome *OnFront-Under5&6- 6 1 *OnBack- BHA 2,131,361 *Clock - 9"Hx5"Wx3.5"D *TopOfDome-BottomOfPedestal - 13.5"Hx9"Wx3.75"D
     

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  24. Richard T.

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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Hello,

    I can't tell you the maker of the clock but I can tell you that the BHA in the oval is the mark of Henry Abrahams Barnett, a London importer/seller of clocks. Others may have information as to the maker of the clock.
     
  25. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #75 John Hubby, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Claire, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your Gustav Becker skeleton clock.

    This clock was made by Gustav Becker for the B. H. Abrahams Company that Richard mentioned, although he had the name not quite correct. It is Barnett Henry Abrahams. There is a specific thread in the 400-Day Clock forum regarding BHA clocks made by Becker, Post Your BHA Logo by Becker 400-Day Clocks Here, which includes as the first post a note regarding the source of the BHA logo, the name of the company and its owner and what it did.

    Your clock was made at the beginning of 1910 based on the serial number, one of a "first batch" of about 100 of these made for BHA. We believe that BHA may have given Becker the idea of making a skeleton 400-Day clock, since they were an English company and such clocks were quite popular there. However it may have transpired, GB were the only maker of 400-Day clocks who produced such a clock. Only about 1,600 were made in total, in four production runs in 1910 and 1911, so they are quite scarce and a desirable collectible.

    Regarding BHA's business relationship with Becker, they started purchase of GB clocks in 1906 and continued that business into the time of WWI. Altogether they purchased several thousand Becker clocks and had all of them stamped with their own BHA logo.

    One question, does the pendulum have the same number scribed on the bottom of the disc as is found for the serial number of the clock? The large majority of the GB clocks do have that present, which indicates the pendulum and the clock started life together if the numbers are matching. Some pendulums don't have a serial number, in any event the one with your clock is correct.

    Some folks will tell you that the pendulum "isn't" correct and it should have what is called the 'chandelier' pendulum, a skeletonized disc pendulum that was made specifically for GB skeleton clocks. However that version was not introduced until two-thirds through the second production run, and altogether only about 40% of the skeleton clocks were originally fitted with that pendulum. All the others (60% of total production) were originally fitted with a standard GB disc pendulum as found with your clock. This has been thoroughly validated by serial number matching of the pendulums with the clocks.
     
  26. Claire Lucchina

    Claire Lucchina Registered User

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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Thank you for your help John, I really appreciate it. The pendulum does not have a serial # on it.
     
  27. Claire Lucchina

    Claire Lucchina Registered User

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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    160465.jpg 160466.jpg 160467.jpg 160468.jpg 160469.jpg
     

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  28. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    So far I've not seen nor do I have any knowledge of any full-size GB skeleton reproductions. That's not to say they don't exist since many popular clocks have been reproduced even by hobbyists, but had there been any commercial effort to do so they would have shown up long ago. I do know that several members have made miniature (half-size) replicas that are quite impressive but certainly none of them would be mistaken for the real thing.

    Probably the best response is to copy and print the text from this thread where the history of your clock is cited and where we have authenticated that is it a genuine GB skeleton clock made for BHA. Another helpful item would be a copy of the back plate illustration from the Horolovar Repair Guide that clearly show the same logo, serial number series, etc. You can also refer any skeptic to this venue for a discussion; they would need to post in the 400-Day clock forum for that.

    I would not be particularly concerned, actually your query is the first time I have been asked about possible reproductions.
     
  29. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    To all, with the owner's permission I've copied above several posts from a thread in the Clock Value Forum regarding a BHA logo skeleton 400-Day clock made by Gustav Becker. This clock appears to be complete and original, the only "anomaly" being there is no serial number engraved on the disc pendulum as was customary on nearly all GB clocks. However, no question about the originality and other features about the clock as explained in detail above.
     
  30. Claire Lucchina

    Claire Lucchina Registered User

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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    One more question John - Was Gustav Becker the only maker of the 400-Day Skeleton clock?
     
  31. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Yes, they were the only company that ever made commercial quantities of a mechanical 400-Day clock in the skeleton format. Some quartz operated clocks with skeleton features have been made within the past 20 years or so but these don't hold a candle to the GB "real thing".
     
  32. Claire Lucchina

    Claire Lucchina Registered User

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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    161073.jpg

    Dome - 11"H x 7"W x 5.25"D
    Dome - Not sure if same dome made with clock. Not fit pedestal tight. Tiny air bubbles in glass. Shows signs of age & use.
    Dome - Bottom - Inside & Outside - Few tiny chips. Worn edges.


    Pedestal - 1.33"H x 9"W x 7"D
    Pedestal - Not sure if same pedestal made with clock. Shows signs of age & use.
     

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  33. John Hubby

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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Claire, some comments regarding the description of your dome and base:

    1) The dimensions of the dome are the same as several other skeleton clocks I have documented, also it is a perfect oval and not "flat-sided". The flat-sided domes are not original. Your dome appears to be original.

    2) All the domes I have documented for these clocks have imperfections such as air bubbles, streaks, and wavers. They were hand blown and not made by glass-blowing machines thus have these anomalies.

    3) The domes for these clocks are "not" a tight fit to the base, which allowed for normal glass-blowing variances. The bottom edges appear to have been ground to shape and are not fire-smoothed. Many have the original protective paper tape around the bottom edge, some are brown and some black.

    4) The base for your clock is identical to several others I have documented, no reason to think it isn't original.
     
  34. Claire Lucchina

    Claire Lucchina Registered User

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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Hi John, My father died in 1986 and he left me this clock. The dome has been covering the clock the whole time. Should I try to put the disc pendulum on, find a key and wind this clock? I don't want to mess it up. If I should, do you know what the key looks like? Thank you!
     
  35. Claire Lucchina

    Claire Lucchina Registered User

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    #85 Claire Lucchina, Mar 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2013
  36. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #86 John Hubby, Mar 27, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Claire, it would be worthwhile to put on the pendulum to see if the clock is in working condition. There will more than likely be enough power in the mainspring to run it for some time but you may have to wind it. The original keys for these clocks looked like a large brass washer with two extensions bradded onto opposite sides. One is the winding key, a size 7, and the other a size 000 for turning the weight adjusting rod on the disc pendulum. Actually you can now buy double-ended keys that will work, be sure the winding end is size 7 and the adjusting end a size 000.

    Thanks for the link, I didn't have this one in my database. It is from the second production run and has the blue/white cartouche dial; I notice the pendulum has the same serial number scribed underneath (very faint but can be easily read using Photoshop) as for the movement so that confirms they started life together.
     
  37. ddMbb

    ddMbb Registered User

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    #87 ddMbb, Jun 13, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Hi, been a while since my last post.

    Here are some photos of BHA I obtained some time last year but have only gotten round to sorting out.

    The serial number is 2070506 and the same number is written on the bottom of the pendulum. It does have the suspension guard unit but not been put it back on yet.

    After reading thought this thread and consulting the 400 Day guide the plate is a 1032A

    I am using a .004 spring but now I realize that I will have to use a .0045 and thin it somewhat.

    Guessing the date to be 1909? (based on other numbers documented)

    However what is puzzling for me is the suspension bracket, not come across this one before how do you set the clock in beat when faced with this unit?:screwball:

    Thanks

    xyzzytom_264763 xyzzytom_264764
    xyzzytom_264765 xyzzytom_264762
    sorry about the photos my usual photo spot is full of other stuff and this locating is uneven.


    I posted this originally in the wrong place but then could not delete my mistake! please delete the other post. Thanks
     
  38. Ally

    Ally Registered User

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    #88 Ally, Jul 19, 2015
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    Re: Post Your BHA, Becker, Grivolas, Hauck, Schlenker & Posner, and Würth Clocks Here

    Preesed the wron button..........so here we go again!
    Hi
    I had the same situation on a recent 'Becker refurbishment, and deduced that the anchor pin is retained on the pallet arbour by a taper, which can be broken by simultaneously rotating and pressing the anchor pin block away from the adjacent pivot. Replace it such that there is enough friction to provide a drive, but also allow the block/pin to be rotated slightly to effect the beat. I suspect you have established this by now? It is better than bending the pin or twisting the wire!
    Regards
    Ian
     
  39. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #89 John Hubby, Jul 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    ddMbb, thanks for posting the photos of your BHA by GB. This one is model No. 498 as illustrated in the 1911 GB sale catalog:
    Mod. No. 498.jpg
    Many of the clocks made for BHA were this model and quite a number of them were fitted with turned marble bases to the same design as the brass base on your clock. BHA were known for high quality and generally the clocks they had made by GB were the top end models.

    If you will note, the back plate is not exactly like Plate 1032A. Although the BHA logo is in the same place and there are no pallet inspection holes, the position of the ratchet bridge, click, and click spring are like Plate 1032. The back plate for your clock was actually an interim version between Plate 1032A and Plate 1032 that was produced in 1908 prior to GB introducing the pallet inspection holes at the beginning of 1909. I have this one in my data as 1032+.

    Based on the serial number your clock was made right at the end of 1908. Does the pendulum have a matching serial number scribed underneath the disc? It appears complete except for the suspension guard. Also, the dial was originally silvered with a matte finish, that can be restored using silvering kits if you are interested in pursuing that. The dial surround with the stamped pattern was originally a bronze color, which can also be achieved using Jax bronze treatment.

    Ally has provided the correct info on how to set the beat with this suspension bracket. In the Repair Guide it is recommended to twist the suspension spring with tweezers, but that is really hit and miss and you can damage the spring. I use the same method described by Ally with no problem whatever. You can loosen the anchor pin collet while you have the movement apart for cleaning, and then it is quite easy to set the beat by making small rotational adjustments.

    I am moving my post and Ally's to the main BHA thread, it wasn't intended for anyone to post in this one.
     
  40. Karl Burghart

    Karl Burghart Registered User
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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    SAM_6908.jpg SAM_6907.jpg SAM_6909.jpg SAM_6910.jpg

    BHA Gustav Becker 2107762 with matching serial number pendulum. I'm looking for another dial like this one for a silver plate champleve cased BHA as well. Will post pictures of that one later. I removed the suspension guard to get a better picture of the back plate.
     
  41. MGM5052

    MGM5052 Registered User

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    Re: BHA

    Hello John
    Is George again
    I sent you a bunch of pictures of my BHA clock to the e-mail address you indicate me
    Some how i do not know where to find your kind replay
    Thank you
    george
    mgm51_il@yahoo.com
     
  42. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #92 John Hubby, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
    Re: BHA

    George, it has taken some time to prepare your photos for posting but also I have been involved with volunteer services for flood relief in our area of Houston that was affected by very heavy rainfall on April 17 and 18.

    First of all, thanks for sending the very detailed photos of your GB clock made for B. H. Abrahams. I will post here and then provide commentary:

    2019525 Front-Dome1.jpg 2019525 Dial1.jpg 2019525 Base Top1.jpg 2019525 Base Detail1.jpg 2019525 Base Under1.jpg 2019525 Mvmt Back1.jpg 2019525 Mvmt Brkt1.jpg 2019525 Mvmt Susp1.jpg 2019525 Pend Side1.jpg 2019525 Pend Under1.jpg 2019525 Pend SN1.jpg 2019525 Front-Base1.jpg

    Based on the serial number 2019525 your clock was made near the beginning of 1908, a little over a year after BHA commenced their regular purchase of GB 400-Day clocks. The pendulum having a matching serial number shows it was original to the clock, and from the photos it appears your clock is complete and original including the suspension guard.

    The upper suspension bracket is not illustrated in the Repair Guide, but appears to be a hybrid of brackets No. 4 and No. 5 with the support frame shaped exactly like bracket No. 4 but with an upper block platform like the one for bracket No. 5 fixed in the same position as the non-adjustable platform used for No. 4. This bracket first appeared about mid-1907 and was used until the end of 1909. Note that brackets No. 4 and No. 5 were also both used during this period, it is baffling to me why they used up to four different upper suspension brackets simultaneously between the beginning of 1907 and the end of 1909. Upper bracket No. 7 was introduced just after mid-1909 and from 1910 was used for all GB clocks until bracket No. 8 was introduced in 1913.

    The movement has Plate 1032A. During the time these clocks were made for BHA there were at least six variances of Plates 1032 and 1032A, such as different logo placement, different click layouts, presence or lack of pallet inspection holes, etc. One interesting note is that Plate 1032 is shown in the Repair Guide as being made in 1900, two years before GB actually introduced their first 400-Day clock movement with Graham deadbeat escapement.

    Finally for those interested, this is the 136th BHA logo 400-Day clock documented since this thread started. I know that Doug Stevenson, who was instrumental in determining who was "BHA", is looking down on us with a big smile today.
     

    Attached Files:

  43. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: BHA Logo Gustav Becker Made? 400-Day Skeleton Clock With Disc Pendulum And Glass

    Thanks for posting the photos of your BHA clock. Based on the serial number it was made in the July-September quarter of 1909 and the movement has Plate 1032. The pendulum having a matching serial number with the movement shows it started life with this clock, thus it appears your clock is complete and original. The photo of the back plate chopped off the upper suspension bracket, that would be of interest if you have that photo available.

    This case design has not been found in any GB sale catalog or brochure, but appears to have been made primarily for BHA. I will do a review of my data later to see exactly how many have been documented and whether in fact BHA was the main buyer. I have documented the same design in mahogany and oak.

    We will look forward to seeing the photos of your champleve BHA in due course. These rectangular dials are relatively scarce to begin with so it will be difficult to find one in decent condition, I don't recall ever seeing one on eBay or in any NAWCC Regional Mart. I've restored a couple of them where the owner unfortunately used some kind of solvent to try to clean them and of course the silk screen numbers and markings vanished. If you have a dial in poor condition I would recommend you contact one of the more well known dial resrtoration people such as The Dial House.
     
  44. MGM5052

    MGM5052 Registered User

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    Re: BHA

    Dear John
    Thank you so much for dating my BHA clock and for the technical comments.
    You are really a pro in your field.
    I have an additional question:
    The vendor of my BHA clock told me that these clocks are not very accurate meaning are not keeping the time exactly.
    However since i bought the clock i was playing almost daily in order to adjust the precision.
    Today i am in the situation that my BHA clock is late by 30 seconds a week (7 days)
    Is this reasonable?
    Thank you again
    George
     
  45. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: BHA

    It is not difficult to regulate these clocks for a modest space in time. However much depends on the condition of the mainspring. If the spring is in good condition 3 months or more from full wind should see reasonable timekeeping but as the spring winds down it will get less power and the clock will get slower.

    If the spring is not perfect a few days can make a considerable change in regulation.
     
  46. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: BHA

    George, 30 seconds a week is good and normal provided the clock has been recently serviced including proper cleaning and lubrication of the mainspring as Les mentioned. Most 400-Day clocks can be regulated to run within 1 minute per week and many can be regulated within 1 minute per month. I would be quite certain your vendor made his statement about these clocks because he didn't know the simple rules for adjustment.

    The final regulation for any of the 4-Ball pendulum clocks "must" be done working from fast to slow, or for disc pendulums working only in one direction to achieve those results (toward fast or slow doesn't matter so long as you don't change directions). That ensures all slack of the pendulum parts has been removed and that every adjustment will cause a change in rate. It also means very tiny adjustments for final calibration and waiting several days (preferably one week) between each adjustment. It is essential to keep a written record of all adjustments and the results so you will know where you are before making another adjustment.

    I know it can be done, I have several 400-Day clocks that are off by less than 5 minutes each time when winding at the time change in March and November.


     
  47. MGM5052

    MGM5052 Registered User

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    Re: BHA

    Les Bradley thank you very much.
     
  48. MGM5052

    MGM5052 Registered User

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    Re: BHA

    Dear John
    Again thank you so much for your references and advises.
    Indeed id seems my vendor didn't knew how to adjust this clock.It is very useful all the information you shared with me.
    May i understand that though it is called 400 day clock, it have to be re winded twice a year?
    Again thank you.
    George Mendel
     
  49. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: BHA

    George, these clocks will run for a full year on one winding and it is not required to wind them twice each year. However, since most countries have summer and winter time when it is necessary to reset the time, I recommend that the clocks be wound also at that time. By winding twice each year the timekeeping will be a little better since most of these clocks tend to slow down near the end of a full year's running.
     
  50. MGM5052

    MGM5052 Registered User

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    Re: BHA

    Big Thanks again
    George
     

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