Position in which to regulate cheap Chinese automatic

[rfrazier]

Hello all. I intermittently post here and read the forum depending on when I have time. I have an interest in mechanical clocks and watches. I own a grandmother clock, a pendulum wall clock, a small travel alarm clock, and three cheap automatic watches. I'm going to pose a question which probably has no right answer and which probably has a thousand opinions. Still, I'm curious to know what you have to say.

I don't work on watches or clocks. But I sometimes have to or want to tinker with them, adjusting the beat or the timing. I own three sub $ 150 Stuhrling Chinese made watches. One is running about 9-10 minutes slow per week. From my reading, I think 4-5 minutes / week or less would be a better number. I COULD send it in for warranty, but that costs me $ 45 including a shipping fee and a handling fee. I'm considering regulating it myself. Just opening the back case and tweaking the rate lever. Not adjusting, nor repairing, since it's new. Only regulating. Having someone other than the factory work on it voids the warranty.

Assuming I decide to do so, the question I have is about the POSITION to regulate it in. I know watches this cheap will run inconsistently depending on position. One might say just do it dial up and be done with it. But, I'm not sure it's that simple. I was thinking and the position that the watch is actually running in varies widely, and is rarely dial up.

For example, as I'm sitting here with my hands on the laptop keyboard, the watch is tilted away from dial up at about a 30 degree angle. If I want to read it, I could put it dial up, or I could put it dial toward my face. I spend much of the day sitting at the computer. If I'm walking, the watch is swinging with my arms through a number of crown down positions. If I'm sleeping on my back with my arms at my sides, it would be crown horizontal and dial outward, or possibly dial up if my hands are flat. If I'm sleeping on one side with my arms crossed to avoid crunching my shoulders, it would be crown up. On the other side, it would be crown down. So, as I said, the watch is rarely actually running dial up.

I have the clock tuner app on my Android tablet and it can apparently read the watch if I use a microphone from ear buds right up against the watch. I don't have a timegrapher device other than the tablet, and am reluctant to spend the $ 150 ish on it.

Also, this is a skeleton watch. I can see the mainspring. The auto wind system generally keeps the spring about 1/2 wound and it doesn't stop over night. The coils are neither all the way inside nor all the way outside.

So, having said all that, I'm thinking perhaps I should regulate the watch in the position it's normally in when I'm at the computer, IE crown right and dial up but tilted about 30 degrees off vertical, and with the spring about half wound. Of course, I have to turn the watch upside down to get the back case off.

Anyway, just wondering what your thoughts are. All help is appreciated.

Ron

 

[roughbarked]

It shouldn't make a lot of difference which position you regulate the watch in. It isn't a superlative chronometer.

 

[WoodyR]

Regulate the watch in any position. Wear it for a day and see how much time it has gained or lost. Put the watch back on the timegrapher and increase/decrease *that* rate (whatever rate it shows when you start the timegrapher) accordingly. You're averaging out the positional errors. I doubt low-quality movements are very precise (repeatable). So, this technique may not serve you well. It works well for me with good quality movements such as ETA, Gruen, Hamilton, Lorsa, etc. If you take your watch off at night, lay it the same way every night or you'll likely get different results everyday.

 

[Chris Radek]

Woody is right. Set it carefully and then wear it every day, normally, for a week, divide the resulting error by 7, put it on the timer dial down and let it settle, and then change the displayed value, whatever it is, by that daily error you got.

If it's this far off, I think it might have more of a problem than regulation, but it sounds like there's no harm in trying.

 

[rfrazier]

Hi all. Thanks for the replies thus far. This forum is a great resource for information. What you all are saying makes sense to me. I like the idea of correcting the error on the timing machine by the amount of the average error. It would be an interesting experiment.

It occurs to me that, for the $ 45 or so it would take me to send it in for warranty, I could get a half decent USB microscope maybe with a small screen. And, for another $ 20-30 ish, I could get a half decent small set of tools. I'm rationalizing a bit, but it also has some truth to it.

It also occurs to me that there's a non trivial chance that I can seriously damage the watch if my tweezers slip, etc. This watch doesn't support hacking, but I might be able to get it to stop by turning the crown in the time going backwards direction. If I try to regulate it and I can't, but don't damage it, I could still potentially make the warranty claim. If I damage it, the warranty is void and I have to eat the cost. Still ... I'm tempted.

Ron

 

[roughbarked]

Well, there could be harm in trying if you do some damage to the watch. Not that I am suggesting that you will but it is true that things can go wrong. Little things that you my not suspect and don't have spares for.

 

[WoodyR]

I don't attempt to stop a balance ... ever .... unless the watch has a hack. Hairsprings and pivots are very delicate things.

Most of my "vintage" watches don't have a hack. For those pieces, I go to time.gov on my desktop computer and set the minute hand as close to the correct time as possible. I usually wait for some multiple of 5 minutes because it's easier to see. Then, I wait 1 minute to see if I did a good job. If I did, I'll note the seconds hand position when it comes around to the next whole minute. If the watch is running at less than +/- 1 minute/day, this method works really well for me. It's actually quite accurate.

 

[Dick C]

You may never be able to regulate it.

I have a Chinese made electric alarm clock, that within 4 or 5 days it is 5 minutes ahead of my Sony electric clock; the Sony still having the same time according to my atomic clock.

 

[rfrazier]

roughbarked You do have a point there. All I INTEND to do is nudge the rate control lever. But you never know.

WoodyR I understand what you're saying. I wasn't saying I'd try to stop the balance by touching it. But I think this watch may stop if I start adjusting the time backwards using the crown and continue to apply gentle back pressure. If that doesn't work, I can use that cool tip you gave me about determining the exact time from the hands.

Dick C You might be right, it could be hopeless. But, I have another Stuhrling that keeps 4-5 min / week from the factory. I could live with that. I did just make a warranty claim on that one because it wasn't auto winding properly, or enough. I posted a thread here a while back about that.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/stuhrling-auto-winding-watch-doesnt-enough-also-slow.191333/

But, even though it was running slow, it was at least reasonable.

The problem with your Chinese clock may not be its fault. Vintage clocks often would rely on the electric power coming in to be exactly 60 Hz (cycles per second) in the US or 50 Hz elsewhere. They used that as a time reference. All clocks on the same power system, once set, would keep pretty good time. But, about a decade ago, I think, they relaxed the controls on power system frequency and now it's allowed to drift much more. So, if the power line frequency is drifting, it could be throwing your clock off. Just something to think about.

I just hypothetically happened to be browsing Amazon and just hypothetically happened to see this microscope that looks pretty good. I'm sure it's Chinese too and there are consistency problems, but the reviews are generally good ... hypothetically.

LCD Digital Microscope,4.3 Inch 1080P 10 Megapixels
For some reason I cannot get Amazon links to work. Look up product number B08LVM9361.

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[Dick C]

My Chinese clock is not vintate. It is circa 2010

 

[Micam100]

A word of caution about cheap USB microscopes. I am no expert with these, although I have one that can be used with a PC or laptop. It has some useful features. It will capture images. It can measure features if you calibrate it against a known dimension. However, there is a lag time for any movement which makes it unsuitable for any delicate work.

Michael

 

[rfrazier]

Dick C Your comment made me realize I had given some ambiguous and possibly incorrect information, so I apologize for that. Apparently, my memory wasn't serving me well. Since I have an interest in the topic and an engineering background and I want to provide good data, I decided to do some searching with phrases like

how does power line frequency affect clocks

and

when was time error correction eliminated

and

time error correction power frequency

I found depressingly little. But, I can share a couple of links. Time error correction is the proper term for power line frequency correction to maintain timekeeping abilities based on the power line. One of the references I found has dates as late as 2017, so I think TEC was still in effect at that time. Take anything you read in a forum discussion with a grain of salt. But, it's very possible a 2010 clock could be affected by this issue.

[etc] Apparently, many electric clocks tell time based on the power grid's frequency

Read the whole story

arstechnica.com

Here's a white paper that's pretty intense for casual reading. But, it does have some background data.

https://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/2895.pdf

Here's a quote about how things used to work. I say used to because I'm PRETTY sure they eliminated TEC. My estimate of a decade ago may be wrong. And, I couldn't find proof of my assertion that it ended. Anyone with knowledge please jump in.

"In modern practice, the electric power industry monitors this time error, and once it reaches a threshold—10 seconds in the Eastern U.S., 5 seconds in the West, and at operator discretion in most of Texas—a procedure called manual Time Error Correction (TEC) is initiated to back it out. While the details vary a bit between the three major "Interconnections" (power grids) in the U.S.—Eastern, Western, and ERCOT (Texas)—in essence a central authority in each Interconnection monitors the Time Error and can issue an order for all producers in that Interconnection to target a different frequency: 59.980 Hz to retard synchronous clocks, or 60.020 Hz to advance them. For each hour of operation at these frequencies (a 20 mHz offset), synchronous clocks will nominally gain or lose 1.2 seconds (subject to variation due to the vagaries of generation and load). This is why synchronous electric clocks are so amazingly consistent over long periods of time. It isn't that the power system is itself a more stable oscillator than, say, a quartz one; it's because there is an invisible hand that intervenes to keep these clocks on time."

Anyway, hope that's useful.

Micam100 That's a very good tip about USB microscope delay. The microscope I mentioned has a small screen of its own. I wonder if that has a delay. Definitely something to think about.

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[John Runciman]

Assuming I decide to do so, the question I have is about the POSITION to regulate it in. I know watches this cheap will run inconsistently depending on position. One might say just do it dial up and be done with it. But, I'm not sure it's that simple. I was thinking and the position that the watch is actually running in varies widely, and is rarely dial up.

As others have already informed you you can't regulate your watch the way you describe. If your watch was in a stationary location then yes you could regulate it in a specific position. Otherwise if you're going to regulate it typically people do it dial down a better way is at a 45° angle crown down but that only works if you have a proper timing machine.

I have the clock tuner app on my Android tablet and it can apparently read the watch if I use a microphone from ear buds right up against the watch. I don't have a timegrapher device other than the tablet, and am reluctant to spend the $ 150 ish on it

The experience has been that most of the apps are worthless as their downfall is in the microphone. There's been more than one discussion on discussion groups where people were led astray by faulty diagnostics based On some app. This is where a Chinese timing machine works quite decent for the money.

It isn't a superlative chronometer.

Stuhrling Chinese made watches.

This will be your biggest problem it's not a chronometer. Trying to regulate it like a chronometer will not make it a chronometer. It's not just the balance wheel and hairspring that make a watch keep time it's the entire watch how the power flows through the gear train smoothly decided escapement everything in the watch is important for timekeeping. So watch made a bargain price isn't going to compete with Something costing considerably more. But you still may build a regulated to keep better time because typically they don't spend a lot of time regulating watches as it takes time

You're averaging out the positional errors.

this is a nice characteristic of a wristwatch it's always in motion will average out all its positional errors eventually.This is why regulating in one specific possession becomes problematic except?

Woody is right. Set it carefully and then wear it every day, normally, for a week, divide the resulting error by 7, put it on the timer dial down and let it settle, and then change the displayed value, whatever it is, by that daily error you got.

This is where companies like Rolex will have your time the watches or look at them on your timing machine and six positions. Just to make sure everything was in specifications but the final timing is by running over several days and figuring out with averages. The difference between the instantaneous of the timing machine versus the real world. If you look at the specifications of chronometer testing it's not based on a timing machine it's based on what the hands do in a variety of positions in situations.

than one other things to do when timing watches to photograph it with whatever you using is the time reference. It makes it a lot easier don't have to stop the secondhand you can stare at the picture for a while to see how fast or slow you are in relationship your time standard.

Hi all. Thanks for the replies thus far. This forum is a great resource for information. What you all are saying makes sense to me. I like the idea of correcting the error on the timing machine by the amount of the average error. It would be an interesting experiment.

It occurs to me that, for the $ 45 or so it would take me to send it in for warranty, I could get a half decent USB microscope maybe with a small screen. And, for another $ 20-30 ish, I could get a half decent small set of tools. I'm rationalizing a bit, but it also has some truth to it.

Minor confusion here you mention correcting the error on a timing machine I didn't think you had a timing machine? I thought you using a app which as I said doesn't count as a timing machine?

Then the problem with the microscope is it won't show something. For instance when you're moving the regulator arm does it have a movable stud for changing the beat? Do you is often times when you try to regulate the watch the stud will move to change the beat or vice versa this is where it's nice to have a timing machine a real timing machine. So I wouldn't waste my money on the microscope. But you might find something better to see with.

 

[rfrazier]

The experience has been that most of the apps are worthless as their downfall is in the microphone. There's been more than one discussion on discussion groups where people were led astray by faulty diagnostics based On some app. This is where a Chinese timing machine works quite decent for the money.

I understand what you're saying. I have Clock Tuner by BuzzSoft for Android. There are some discussions on the forum about it.

Clock Tuner - Apps on Google Play

Measure beat rate of mechanical watches.

play.google.com

You can plug in an external microphone to the tablet or phone. It actually does pretty good with my pendulum clocks, which tick louder and move slower than a watch. It does seem to be able to read the watch if I plug in my ear buds and attach the microphone to the watch. But, I understand the general concept you're talking about in that they may not be reliable. I've heard some good things about Tickoprint as well. Searching for regulate automatic watch on YouTube yields some interesting results.

This will be your biggest problem it's not a chronometer. Trying to regulate it like a chronometer will not make it a chronometer.

But you still may build a regulated to keep better time because typically they don't spend a lot of time regulating watches as it takes time

Just for kicks, I looked up chronometer.

What is does chronometer mean on a watch? | Longines®

Understand the basis of chronometer certification and how they have evolved over time.

www.longines.com

That says they should be within 6 seconds per day. I don't expect that from this watch. But, from other reading, I think ~ 40 seconds / day or ~ 5 minutes / week is a reasonable goal. I have another Stuhrling that can do that right from the factory.

Minor confusion here you mention correcting the error on a timing machine I didn't think you had a timing machine? I thought you using a app which as I said doesn't count as a timing machine?

I was referring to the Clock Tuner app. It actually does pretty good, at least with pendulum clocks. It does not show amplitude in degrees or beat error in mS with numbers. But it does show variance from the standard beat rate and has the moving dots display where you can visually see beat error. It's hard to justify the cost of a timing machine to regulate a couple of clocks and watches on rare occasions. That doesn't mean that I don't WANT one.

Then the problem with the microscope is it won't show something.

Do you is often times when you try to regulate the watch the stud will move to change the beat or vice versa this is where it's nice to have a timing machine a real timing machine.

Just for clarification, the microscopes in question are more of lighted magnifiers with display screens, not the microscopes we grew up with looking at algae in high school. People use them for inspecting coins and such. But, you have a point. With my timing app, I could see a change in beat error, but it doesn't give me a number per se.

Searching Amazon for (coin OR digital OR usb) microscope, in the watch, camera, and electronics categories gives some interesting options. I cannot get Amazon links to work on this forum. But, looking up these product numbers gives an example of these kinds of instruments.

B0BGS22Y8Z, B09FJX3CLS, B08QFHXKL6, B08H8BKL85, B08LVM9361

Prices are attractive and reviews are generally favorable.

PS, if you get a microscope, look for one with a focus knob on the display or a focus wheel on the lens assembly. It's hard to tell from photos but some seem to have no focus at all. I could be wrong but you definitely want some way to focus.

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[karlmansson]

If a watch I service is not a chronometer or the person I’m servicing it for specifically asks for adjusting to more positions, I usually adjust for three positions: dial up, crown down and crown right (the crown positions viewed from the movement side. . Those are the positions a wristwatch will spend most of its time in during a day and at night.

Bear in mind that this is actual adjustment and regulation through dynamic poising, outside the scope of tools and skills that you likely have at this point. For your run of the mill wristwatch, this will also only hold true for one state of wind. Better watches will be better designed and adjusted for isochronism (equal rate at different amplitudes of the balance to put it simply). I usually adjust watches at a low state of wind as out of poise errors are often exaggerated in that range.

For you, that means finding a winding degree somewhere in the middle of the range (unless it’s an automatic in which case I would do it at full wind), and test the watch in the three above positions and then adjust the regulator sweep so that the average of those ends up at zero. For this you need a timing machine. They can be had for cheap, I got mine from eBay I think. They used to be called “Weishi”. A Chinese wink at the real deal, the Swiss Witschii at ten times the price.

 

[rfrazier]

I usually adjust for three positions: dial up, crown down and crown right (the crown positions viewed from the movement side. . Those are the positions a wristwatch will spend most of its time in during a day and at night.

test the watch in the three above positions and then adjust the regulator sweep so that the average of those ends up at zero. For this you need a timing machine. They can be had for cheap, I got mine from eBay I think. They used to be called “Weishi”. A Chinese wink at the real deal, the Swiss Witschii at ten times the price.

Thanks for the information on those positions you mentioned and regarding averaging out the results from each. That sounds like a cool way to do things. The more I learn about watchmaking / watch repair, the more I'm surprised about how complex it can get. I'm not actively involved in it, just a newbie who watches videos and reads stuff. Hopefully there would be no repair involved here, just tweaking. It's impressive what you can get with some of the stuff from China. I've definitely been eyeballing some of those machines. The going rate seems to be about $ 150. That does seem to be a good value though.

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[rfrazier]

Hi all. I wanted to give an update on my thoughts about regulating this watch if I choose to. I probably will. Thanks for all the great info you're sharing to help me decide. Keep it coming.

I'm going to share my brainstorming process in case others reading have to make similar decisions. This is not so much to ask you which choice to make as to illustrate the kind of trade offs involved.

Here are my choices, from my perspective, as to what to do with this watch and some pros and cons. I like the appearance and feel of the watch. It's auto winding fine but running 9 minutes slow / week. As far as I can tell, up to 5 minutes off per week would be about normal for an inexpensive mechanism.

Choice 1 - Send it in for warranty repair. Costs $ 45 including shipping and their handling fee. Some hassle involved and time to get it back.

Choice 2 - Have another, possibly local, watchmaker adjust it. Similar money and hassle. Voids the warranty maybe. Technically, this is not a repair, but a tweak.

Choice 3 - Adjust it myself and use the $ to buy tools. Faster. Not cheaper overall if I buy what I want but I keep the tools. I could damage the watch, which would certainly void the warranty.

Choice 4 - Do nothing and keep the watch. I'll have to adjust the time for the 9 minutes every week but I'd have to adjust it for up to 5 minutes anyway.

Choice 5 - Do nothing and sell the watch, with full disclosure to the buyer.

I'm leaning toward the DIY option which is what we've been discussing.

I may have to eat some of my words. Before I said:

I was referring to the Clock Tuner app. It actually does pretty good, at least with pendulum clocks.

I was thinking it would do OK with the watch as well based on minimal testing. After more testing, it appears to be erratic. After experimentation, I think there are two problems. I also think these problems would apply to all apps.

The first problem with the app is that the mic on my earbuds may not be able to pick up the sound of the watch well enough. I started up Wild Spectra Mobile Lite on my tablet and recorded sound with the ear buds mic attached to the watch with a rubber band. I repeatedly tapped on the right side of the spectrum display to increase the volume gain. I then played back the sound. I could not hear the ticks from the watch. If I repeat the experiment with my little travel alarm clock, I can clearly hear the ticks from the clock. I can even faintly hear the ticks from my grandmother clock across the room.

Just with my ears, I can hear the grandmother clock ticking from 8 feet away. I can hear the travel alarm from 2 feet away. And, I can hear the watch from maybe a couple of inches. So, the sound is very soft.

The second problem with the app, at least this one, is that it tries to force the settings for target beat rate to a multiple of 3600 BPH. Not all clocks run at 3600. I have verified by counting pendulum swings with an electric eye that my grandmother clock runs at 3959 beats per hour, not 3600. My other pendulum wall clock runs at 6863 beats per hour, not 7200. This is documented here:

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/counting-pendulum-swings-photoelectric-sensor-counter-beat-count.190979/

From my observations, there is no law that says the number of ticks per hour has to be a multiple of 3600. It depends on the number of teeth in the gear train, and it could be something else. Also, I don't think each second has to be divided by an integer number. Again, the gears don't care how many pendulum or balance wheel swings it takes to move the minute hand around 360 degrees.

Clock tuner detects the target beat rate of the travel alarm clock to be 14400 BPH and an actual rate of 14382 or something like that. It says the clock is running slow. But, I know for a fact from observation that the clock is gaining about 2 minutes / day. I can only assume that 14400 is NOT the correct beat rate for that clock. If documentation isn't available, the only way I know of FOR SURE to know the target beat rate of a clock is to count the ticks or pendulum or balance wheel swings while the minute hand goes around 1 full circle.

Therefore, having the app work properly depends on knowing the exact beat rate that the mechanism should be running at. If it identifies the target beat rate wrong, all the calculations for actual gain or loss will be wrong. The Clock Tuner app has an option to add custom beat rates, which may not be multiples of 3600, by tapping the beat rate field. I cannot find any way to add custom beat rates into Tickoprint. Since the auto beat detect may choose the wrong number, even if the sound signal is clean, this could be why apps have a bad reputation among some people, because the calculations are coming up wrong.

So, my conclusion is, for a timegrapher OR an app to work, it must be calibrated to the EXACT target beat rate of the mechanism AND it must be able to pick up a clean tick signal out of the noise. Assuming I go with choice 3 to adjust the watch myself, if I cannot get a clean sound signal into the tablet, I'll have to get a timegrapher. I also have to figure out the correct target beat rate of the watch. With my budget, I can get some cheap tools and a timergrapher or a microscope. Not both.

If you all have thoughts on this, please let me know.

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[roughbarked]

If you listen to a watchmaker who has worked in retail. You'll probably be told all about how long some watches sit before they are sold. Our practice was to engrave all the watches we sold so that even if they lost the warranty or before they remembered that it was under warranty, we'd know that it likely needed the oil refreshed. Such watches were serviced under warranty.
I don't recall a watch that we sold where the customer complained it was more than a minute out per week. We sold many thousands of much less expensive watches than you paid for this from the People's Republic.
I ask, why you would buy a watch from someone so far away that it cost $45 to send it to them?

 

[rfrazier]

I ask, why you would buy a watch from someone so far away that it cost $45 to send it to them?

Thanks for that warranty info. The Stuhrling watch company charges $ 30 to process a warranty claim. That includes return shipping to me. They're in Brooklyn, NY. I'm in GA. I had to pay $ 15 to ship another watch to them. That's where I got the $ 45 from the sum of those two things.

PS, if properly regulated I think this is capable of tighter timing. I think the specs for movements like this don't promise better than about 5 min / week.

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[rfrazier]

Hi all, I wanted to give a small update and share some resources.

I've decided to take the leap and try to regulate the watch myself. However, I really cannot justify the cost of a timegrapher just to regulate a couple of watches per year, if that. I think I can use the Clock Tuner or Tickoprint or Wild Spectra apps on my tablet or the eTimer program on my PC if I can get the proper target beat rate and get a good sound signal into them. So, I'm taking a slightly different approach.

There are some threads mentioning eTimer here on the forum which you could search for by putting etimer site:mb.nawcc.org in Google or DuckDuckGo.

Here's a thread I found which talks about Wild Spectra although it's a bit old:

RELEASE: Android "timing machine" app for regulating mechanical (pocket) watches

I have added a new feature to my popular Android app, WildSpectra Mobile (available on Google Play), to enable mechanical watch regulation in the style of a conventional (and expensive) "timing machine". The app uses the device's microphone to hear the tick-tock beats of the movement and...

mb.nawcc.org

Here are some other relevant threads:

Recommendations for a timing machine?

If anyone a recommendation for an inexpensive timing machine, I'd like to know. I've done a google search. They seem to come in around $150 to $250. Anything that just gives the beat? Don't need a print out. Thanks. John

mb.nawcc.org

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/beat-setting-using-clock-tuner-app.170884/

I've been searching today with keywords like timegrapher, timing machine, even microphone. Nothing was really leaping out at me. Then, it struck me to search for beat amplifier, and that was the key (I hope).

I found a really nice Timetrax beat amplifier in an eBay ad. The seller says he's the inventor and maker of the product. It should allow me to use the clip on sensor and amplifier with my tablet or PC. So, I'm ordering that instead of a timegrapher. I'm also ordering a microscope with built in screen and a small tool kit. I'm hopeful that there won't be a delay updating the built in screen as there might be going over USB to the PC. Hopefully, I will be able to use this equipment to regulate my watch to it's best potential without breaking it. Thanks for all the information you've shared. I'll be referring back to this thread again.

Here are the products, if you'd like to look them up.

BYNIIUR Watch Repair Kit - $ 15
Amazon product: B07HL3VJD3

Leanking 7 inch LCD Digital USB Microscope - $ 75
Amazon product: B08H8BKL85

Timetrax Model 60 Watch Clock Beat Amplifier
Diagnostic Tool w/ PICKUP Sensor - $ 70
Ebay Item: 234319971856

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[rfrazier]

Hi all. I thought I'd post a quick item here before doing some other things. Then I'll post some more comments later. Your forum instructions say you all love pictures. So, thought I'd share a few. Somebody here has a signature that says a person who has one clock knows what time it is and a person who has two clocks never does. I'm finding out that's true. Counting wristwatches, I now have 6 mechanical clocks. The whole reason I started down this road, other than liking clocks, was to have something that would still work in case of emergencies. I'm not going down the rabbit hole here as to whether that was a good idea. Let's just say it's not working as well as I thought. For now, I'll just post a few pictures.

In this thread:

Beat setting using Clock Tuner App

There was nothing in my app. - paid version. I looked on line and can’t find anything.

mb.nawcc.org

Willie X said If you plan to adjust the clock at ANY time of the day near the 7 day point, don't ever make an adjust unless the clock is out by 2 minutes, or more.

I'm starting to agree. I think I'll just have to develop a certain amount of not caring about the precise time on these clocks. Here are the pics. The reference clock is an atomic Casio digital watch. I've also included a picture of a stand alone digital clock that also drifts a bit after a couple of months. The mechanical clocks here have all been set within the last 4 days, and some more recently. More later.

Yay. Just got an email that says my beat amplifier has been delivered. It should be interesting experimenting with that.

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron

 

[karlmansson]

While it is true pictures are almost always a necessity in questions of diagnostics, it’s also true it helps the members of this forum answer questions if you keep discussions on the thread topic and to keep both questions and answers as concise and to the point as possible.

Intended as friendly and hopefully helpful advice!

Regards
Karl

 

[rfrazier]

Thought I'd provide an update. It is true that this thread has wandered a bit from the time I started it. But, threads are known to do that.

For what it's worth, I did use my new tools to open my slow watch that was losing about 6 min / week. I managed to move the rate adjustment lever, maybe too much, and put the cover back on without destroying the watch. Based on comments in this thread, I decided on measuring at a position of crown right and dial 45 degrees from facing straight up, IE facing towards me a bit. That seems to be representative of the way the watch works while being worn. Wild Spectra and Clock Tuner now say it's gaining about 35 sec / day. I'll see what's really happening as I wear it this week. I'd rather it be a little fast than a lot slow.

I discovered that there is about a 1/3 sec - 1/2 sec delay between me moving a tool under the microscope and it showing up on the internal or the HDMI screen. But, if I move the tool slowly, it's not a problem. It's also hard to determine depth on the microscope screen, as in how far down my tool is close to the watch. I just kept moving the tool down very slowly until I felt it touch the adjustment lever. The numbers like 1200X and 1500X magnification on the microscope ad are rubbish. Actual magnification is from about 50X to 100X comparing the sample to the screen. I will shortly post pictures of the microscope in the thread linked below.

I talk about microscope features here:

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/tips-for-purchasing-an-inexpensive-digital-microscope.193020/

Here's my tool kit:

BYNIIUR Watch Repair Kit - $ 15
Amazon product: B07HL3VJD3

I originally ordered this microscope:

Leanking 7 inch LCD Digital USB Microscope - $ 75
Amazon product: B08H8BKL85

I couldn't screw the gantry to the base without damaging the threads.

Then I ordered this one:

Hayve 7'' HDMI Digital Microscope,1200X Coin Microscope with IPS Screen
Amazon product: B0BMTHM3LS

That probably would have been fine except it arrived with a cracked screen.

Finally, I ordered this one, got it, and I like it very much.

Hayve 7'' Digital Microscope 1500X, HDMI LCD Microscope
B0B4638J6Z

May your beat rate be stable and your beat error be small. Ron