Poor mans staking set information

Discussion in 'Horological Tools' started by kd8tzc, Apr 20, 2017.

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  1. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

    Apr 11, 2017
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    I'd like to start "trying" to fix some broken watches that I might be able to pick up inexpensively. The problem I am running up against is many of the watches that I see that are mot running look like the balance wheels need to be fixed. In my research, I know I will need a staking set, but most seem to be extremely expensive. Can any of you guide me with your wisdom of what I should be looking for and how much I should be looking to spend (PM me if that part violates any forum rules).

    Thanks,

    John
     
  2. David S

    David S Registered User
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  3. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

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    Thanks David... actually, just after sending this, a friend of mine sent me an email about a K&D New Style Staking set that was on Ebay for a very good price. Looking at it, it appeared to have everything. Hopefully this will be the first in my investment to make minor repairs to my watches. I guess I should also get a few other tools (tweezers) and the like. If you have any suggestions of what I should pick up to get started, let me know.
     
  4. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    kd8tzc, I get along fine with a #2 and #5 tweezer, a set of Bergeon screwdrivers, needle nose pliers, various gauges (watch size, hand size, crystal gauge), a small vise, mainspring winder, various watch oils and oilers, a used L&R watch cleaner(no ultrasonic yet) found on Ebay, watch papers, nitrile gloves or finger cots, small storage tins, a glass cheese cover for keeping dust off, staking set, roller remover, pallet warmer, shellac, toothpicks, a couple of pieces of pithwood, some pegwood where the toothpicks don't work, watch cleaner and rinse, One Dip, Rodico, bench block, case opener or small pocket knife, bench mat, magnavisor, loupes, demagnetizer, a set of inexpensive watch keys for winding keywind watches, a couple of different size movement holders.
     
  5. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

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    That's a nice list... thanks. Lots of stuff in there, but that gives me an idea of what I will need to invest in.

    I have often wondered though what the difference is between the types of tweezers (e.g. #2 vs #5). For things like tweezers and screwdrivers, is there a good place to buy these and are can someone recommend some brands? Also, what about specific sizes for the screwdrivers if you were working with a limited budget (vs buying an entire set at $200+)
     
  6. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi kd8tzc,

    For tweezers, one of the best makers is Dumont; although they're expensive, the difference is use is considerable, especially since they form an extension of your hand, they're so much more comfortable to use, and they can be picked up second-hand. Screwdrivers are also a fundamental necessity, and again may seem expensive, but look at A*F and Horotec as well as Bergeon. The seemingly cheap Chinese and Indian offerings aren't really cheap if you consider how long they'll last and what they're like to use. Second-hand tools are often pretty worn, so look carefully before buying. There are some good sites selling used tools and materials; Uncle Larry, Dashto, Daveswatchparts, etc.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  7. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    Do some research, that's what I did. I did a bunch of studying in forums, books, and websites. I normally visit a forum for weeks before I join one. I checked out stores like Esslinger, Otto Frei, etc. I researched what new tools cost vs used and vintage tools at eBay and other online stores like Dave's . It took a lot of time and work. I tried to concentrate on tools that I needed most and bought more monthly as I could afford to - ITMT studying and researching. I bought the Chicago School of Watchmaking course on DVD, and some books.
     
  8. Firegriff

    Firegriff Registered User
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    I have as much fun collecting horological tools as much as I do watches.
     
  9. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    I do as well, though I have to pass up on many because I can't afford them. If I can I'll normally buy a vintage tool before a brand new one even if the new tool is cheaper. But I'm doing this on a budget and sometimes that plays a role in my decisions.
    I bought the entire collection of a watchmakers screws except for 1 load of screws that I couldn't bid on because I was broke. But after looking at the photo's, I already had most of the types of screws in that load. This last load that I won has a lot of case and movement screws in it. I'm pretty confident that no matter what type of watch I'm servicing, if I need a screw, I have one. Also, I have found some very unusual looking screws and some watch hands and stuff hidden among the screws.
     
  10. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

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    Hi all, this is some great advice... thank you so much.

    As said earlier, I did pickup a used New Style K&D Special staking set. One question I have though is some of the stakes are really tight when going though the tool. Should this be the case or do I need to do something that loosens this up (is there an adjustment setting)?
     
  11. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    Oops, I was wrong..it wasn't the entire load of screws.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Are they dry? I coated all of mine with oil.
     
  12. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

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    #12 kd8tzc, Apr 25, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
    Yes, but they are also quite old. I guess what causes me concern is that some slip though like a hot knife in butter and a few don't want to go in at all. Since this was made back in the early 1900's, there is not an instruction manual with it, so I don't know if there are any moveable parts to it. It does have a large screw on the back of the unit that tightens and loosens the plate that can be rotated to align the proper hole. But is there anything that allows the "collar/sleeve" (sorry, don't know if that is the correct term) where the staking tool passes through to be bigger or smaller. I just hope the person who sold this to me did have some other stakes that were for a different device that might be slightly larger.

    I took out the micrometer and they all seem to be 3/16". What type of oil would you recommend? 3 in 1 oil? Normal 30 weight oil? something else?
     
  13. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

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    Okay, so I used some of my gun oil on the stakes, and still have those that don't want to go through. I wonder if there is just very fine corrosion or something on them that I just am not seeing, feeling, etc. I might put them in my drill press, turn it on a slow setting, and then use some very fine steel wool on them to buff them a bit and see if that makes it any better. Some will go through about 3/4 of the way, and then stop. I wonder if they may just not be true and are getting wedged. I'll see if I can find a nice level surface that I can test if that is the case. Luckily, only a very small number of them are like this.
     
  14. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    I cleaned mine up with steel wool by hand. I used 3in1 oil. I would measure them in mm's and see how much different they are.
     
  15. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    The first reason is that they aren't original stakes made to fit the set. It was never a good idea to mix staking sets.

    It is possible that one end of the stakes will be rivetted by hammering the end with steel hammers. Usually people who treat their tools like this, also bend them. A bent stake wont fit either.

    Sometimes rust can cause problems but a quick rub with emery paper should fix this in no time at all.
     
  16. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

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    I have no idea if they are mixed or not...

    I did the steel wool trick on them last night and also ran a small caliber brass cleaning brush through the sleeve as well and all but one now slides nicely through the tool.
     
  17. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    #17 roughbarked, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    The one could have greater damage.
    Sliding a good vernier caliper along it will show this or at least tell you whether it should fit the comparison with the others.
     
  18. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    Most places say to use a brass hammer with our stakes. I was wondering if using a nylon hammer would be even better than using brass? -I have both.
     
  19. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Nylon will wear steel faster than brass. Yet I doubt it will hammer steel like steel does. It is also about the impact force you require to deliver when striking the stake.
     
  20. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    Ok. Thanks.
     
  21. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    #21 roughbarked, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    Nylon like any hammer material, has its known force appplication. As I implied. how hard and fast do you want to push?
    I could have said, everything is relative but I think that if about a staking set, this is true.
     
  22. Firegriff

    Firegriff Registered User
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    And you just" tap" the stakes not "strike" the stakes.
     
  23. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    You mean that I don't need my 10 pound hammer? lol
     
  24. robmack

    robmack Registered User

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    #24 robmack, Apr 27, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    Surf over to the Inverto web site. There, on the References tab, you will find the original patent documents for download, which will give you a clear understanding of the internals of the staking anvil. Also, there are copies of the Staking Tools and How To Use Them manual, as well as product brochures. Although you don't have an Inverto 17 or 18, the majority of the information available to you from this site is applicable to your New Series.

    I bought a New Series staking set originally which was very difficult to insert stakes. I eventually solved the problem by visiting a local machine shop where the proprietor reamed out the staking tool's arm to 0.185" which is exactly a #13 Drill. The internal tension spring was rusty which prevented the stakes from being inserted.Your's might have the same problem.
     
  25. kd8tzc

    kd8tzc Registered User

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    Thank you Robert... being able to see the exploded view of the tool is extremely helpful. As I said, only one stake now binds up, and I think I can live with that. It is one of the rounded nose stakes, and there are a few others that are of similar size. When I used the brass gun barrel bore brush on it, it seemed to clean out any of the gunk that built up in it over the 100+ years.
     
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