pocket watch,please help! no idea of age date type

jfl

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The .935 marking is sterling and I think I see a pin set apparatus on the top right of the stem and crown. If so the watch is 95-120 years old as a guess. It would help if you would open the back and take a picture of the movement. There are others on this site who will be able to provide more information once you post your next set of pictures. jfl
 

Mikrolisk

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The movement is a Manzoni:
155.jpg

also used in Duerrstein pocket watches for ladies.

Here's an ad from the guys:

156.jpg
(La Federation Horlogere, 24th march 1904)


Andreas
 

MartyR

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The .935 marking is sterling ...
Sterling silver is .925 and must be fully hallmarked under British regulations. This is a Continental grade of silver which is actually finer than Sterling.
 

erika

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May 17, 2011
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thank-you for you for your help, i just have to find out what it says in french , i will
keep looking, thanks again erika
-> posts merged by system <-
so it is was quite good quality when it was made?
 

erika

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inside the watch there are 2 sheild shapes with what looks like a bear on profile , i looked up on line http:/www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks.html found pic of swiss marks 1882-1934 there is another number 0,935 inside the case anyone know what this one means?
 
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Audemars

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I think we really need to see a detailed shot of the "bear" mark.

I see a silver watch #88850 in the Audemars books for their London depot. It has a cylinder escapement (all you experts pleeeease comment) and this watch has "F & S" - ie english marks - instead of "A & R".

#88850 was resourced by the Audemars London Depot from Courvoisier (Neuchatel, I think) and sold to "Ganter" (who I think was at one time their London agent/distributor). It was entered in the books on 4th February 1881 and sold on 25th April of the same year.

We know that one of the Audemars' marks was a dog's head in a shield but I am not sure if that would have been included on resourced product.

There is another problem - the books have it marked as key-wound which, as far as I can see, this is not.

Numerical coincidence - or just bad book-keeping?

P
 

Larry Treiman

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Are there supposed to be pictures somewhere:???::???: ?

The only illustrations that I can see in the entire thread are the Paulson catalog illustration and the advertisement in Mikrolisk's post. I get the impression that other people are seeing pictures!

Larry
 
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Kent

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Are there supposed to be pictures somewhere:???::???: ?
.... I get the impression that other people are seeing pictures!

Larry
Nope! What you see is what there is.
 

Larry Treiman

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Nope! What you see is what there is.

AAAAAAAAAAARGH and AAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!! (pardon my shouting)

'Ow in the 'ell am I supposed to rationalize jfl's observation that "....I think I see a pin set apparatus...." or the fact that Mikrolisk could ID the movement as a Manzoni, when there is no photo visible to me of Erika's watch movement or watch.

Also, since nobody commented that they couldn't see any photos, it doesn't seem unreasonable to infer that at least some people saw them....does it:???:??

I think Erika mentioned something about some of her photos possibly being too big. Could it be that they are too big for some browsers or some compukers (sic)??

Larry
 
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Larry Treiman

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No, now for me the watch photos are away too... :(
Thanks, Mikrolisk, for telling me. I was wondering if the browser (Internet Explorer) that I am now using was suddenly incompatible with this message board.

I used to use Mozilla Firefox, but a while ago it suddenly stopped working properly with this message board. I couldn't see the thumbnail photos or the icons to click for posting. They all just disappeared! Since then I have had to use Internet Explorer, but it does strange things, too! :???::???::???:

Larry
 

MartyR

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Now you see it, now you don't :D

Erika removed the photos rom her initial post, for reasons that I don't understand but which I find worrying.

She removed them immediately after she also edited her last post #9.
 

erika

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i dont know what happened i didnt remove pictures,? im trying to add them and i can , i can attach them to an email, but when i try to post them all that comes up is a box with a red cross, sorry if i can email them to someone perhaps you can open them so so sorry erika
 

erika

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my email address is evs@indigo.ie if i can email them to someone perhaps you can put them up again for mer as i can get the pictures to paste onto message, the original pictures i posted where from the seller of the watch so perhaps they removed the pictures from where they had posted them,
really sorry for confusion, im not trying to anoy anyone ( embarased) sorry!!
 

erika

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Now you see it, now you don't :D

Erika removed the photos rom her initial post, for reasons that I don't understand but which I find worrying.

She removed them immediately after she also edited her last post #9.
i didnt remove them , i didnt mean to anoy anyone, i dont know why they disapeared, i have re taken pictures and made an album and re posted them , i dont know why i would remove them when i am asking you all to help me identify my watch ?? maby im being misunderstood here?'
sorry for any confusion , if you would rather i didnt post just let me know i can post a question else wear, thanks erika
 

Audemars

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You haven't annoyed anyone - well not the reasonable ones anyway.
I've seen all the shots (I think). Looks like an interesting watch. I'll be interested in what the others have to say -when they get around to mastering the technology.................
P
 

MartyR

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i didnt remove them , i didnt mean to anoy anyone... i dont know why i would remove them when i am asking you all to help me identify my watch ??
Don't worry about it, Erika, it's obviously a simple mistake.

I was concerned that you might have removed the photos deliberately, maybe because someone had challenged your right to post them, maybe because the watch didn't belong to you. We do get some strange people posting here :rolleyes: Clearly that doesn't apply after all, so please do continue to post :)
 

Cary Hurt

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Erika,

Welcome to the NAWCC message board, and I apologize for the frustration our system has caused. Since we now seem to have the photo issue settled, perhaps some of us should actually address the watch...

Your watch is Swiss, and I would date it to roughly 1900, give or take 10 (or a few more) years in either direction. The Swiss bear hallmarks were used between 1881 and 1934, so we know that your watch falls within that range. Stylistically, I would place it in the 1890s, but European markets could be quite coservative, and this classically styled piece could have been made a bit later. It is also pin-set (or nail-set), which is another feature typical of the late 19th century, but it did hang on for a while longer, so that isn't definitive either.

The movement appears to be an 8 jewel cylinder escapement. Andreas (Mikrolisk) has identified it as a Manzoni ebauche Most movement manufacturers at this time preferred to remain anonymous, so it's nice to know who made your movement. This is a typical movement for the late 19th century. Cylinder escapements were among the first successfully mass produced movements, and were considered to make up in durability the little that they gave up in accuracy. They were surpassed in quality by lever movements, and once the mass-production of levers became more common (and their prices fell), cylinders were relegated to the second-tier. They would be largely considered obsolete by the 1920s, and few modern watchmakers are versed in their repair. There is also a distinct shortage of spares available, so repair is often problematic and expensive. If yours is running, consider that a plus, although you should have it checked by a watchmaker before subjecting it to constant use.

This movement is lower-middle grade compared to it's contemporaries. It was a serviceable accessory, and probably provided reasonable accuracy for many years. The decorative case was likely a more important selling point than the technical features of the movement.

Hope this helps,

Cary
 

erika

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May 17, 2011
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hello, thanks for your detailed reply,

so was the case and movement the original,
or was the movement replaced ?

yes, the watch it working and keeping acurate time ,
i live in ireland , is there someone you could suggest who would be able to look at the watch for me regarding keeping it serviced,

and if you could give me an idea of how much a watch service would cost approx? as i have no idea about pocketwatches

i was going to put it on a long silver chain and wear it as jewellery but if i can keep it working in good order i would be happy to do so,
i think it beautiful, even if it is a bit on a mongrel,

many thanks erika

i am asuming it is a womens watch ? as the size is small under 1 1/4 inches
 

Kevin W.

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Hello Erika, it,s nice to see a woman come here to post questions, does not happen that often.
I would look for someone who repairs antique and vintge watches. Expect to pay a fair amount for a clean and oil.Dont go to one of those watch repair places in a shopping mall, not usually a good choice.You have a nice antique watch and should enjoy it.Ask questions how they will service it.Such as do you take it all apart to clean and oil it.Which is how it should be done.
Hope you enjoy your watch for many more years to come.
 

Cary Hurt

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hello, thanks for your detailed reply,

so was the case and movement the original,
or was the movement replaced ?

yes, the watch it working and keeping acurate time ,
i live in ireland , is there someone you could suggest who would be able to look at the watch for me regarding keeping it serviced,

and if you could give me an idea of how much a watch service would cost approx? as i have no idea about pocketwatches

i was going to put it on a long silver chain and wear it as jewellery but if i can keep it working in good order i would be happy to do so,
i think it beautiful, even if it is a bit on a mongrel,

many thanks erika

i am asuming it is a womens watch ? as the size is small under 1 1/4 inches
Erika,

There is no reason to believe that this watch is not totally original, and I'm sure that the case and movement have always been together. It's not that it has ever been a "mongrel", it's more that, in it's day, a proper lady didn't really have to worry about being precisely on time, and this was more of a piece of "bling" rather than a precision time keeper.

You are correct that this would have been a ladies watch originally, and these are more properly referred to as pendant watches, rather than pocketwatches. They were traditionally worn on a slide chain around the neck, or they were hung from a chatelaine. In later years, there were brooches and pins made to hang the watch from.

I only know one watchmaker in Ireland, and they are in Killarney. I would suggest that you check the website of BHI, the Britich Horological Institute. They may be able to refer you to a qualified watchmaker.

As Kevin said, the cost of a proper overhaul may surprise you. I don't really know how costs in Ireland compare to here, but consider that you are probably talking about two to three hours of skilled, specialized labor. If there are any parts that must be replaced, then the cost will be increased considerably.

If you do choose to wear it on a long chain, be careful that you are aware of how far it will swing (and how hard it might hit things) when you bend over, or reach down for something. Shocks and bumps are much more of a problem to these older designs than they are to more modern types. This is one reason that they were originally worn close to the body.

Regards,

Cary
 

erika

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May 17, 2011
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hi cary, thanks for the reply, i will have to perhaps only wear it for special occasions, as i dont want to damage it ,i will look up the website you suggested, and when im in the area will perhaps arrange an appointment ,

it is ticking away , but pehaps till its looked at properly i would be better not to wind it for now , just incase,

many thanks for all your expert advise and insight , i think i could be getting hooked ! on beautiful watches , but i could have worse habits ,

regards erika
 
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