Pocket Watch Lift Angle

Paulfg

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Hello i am new around here,so if I have missed something I apologise in advance.
i have been searching for the lift angles for Waltham,Hamilton and Hampden pocket watches to no availe.
I have a Waltham traveler I recently aquired that is not running correctly and wanted to put it on a timegrapher.
I also have a couple of other Hampden and Hamilton watches I would like to assess
As there appears to be a wealth of knowledge here perhaps someone can help me
thanks
 

musicguy

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Welcome to the NAWCC Forum!

Moving thread to watch repair section for best answers.


Rob
 
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gmorse

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Hi Paul,

If you can't find the appropriate documentation, have a look at this older thread which explains other methods to determine it for any watch.

Regards,

Graham
 

John Runciman

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lift angles for Waltham,Hamilton and Hampden pocket watches
The reason why you're having a hard time finding the lift angles for these watches is the following. Lift angle is used for timing machine to determine amplitude. Timing machines are relatively recent American pocket watches are not. This means that there is no listing although it be interesting project of someone would make a listing. Or perhaps we the discussion group of people Who would share all of their listings. For instance the YouTube video in the second link below tells you how to figure out what the lift angle is for any watch. I find if you use a pen that fluoresces under UV light it makes it really really easy to see.

Then you'll find in newer tech sheets watch companies have published their lift angles and enterprising souls have made listings. Like at this link unfortunately no American pocket watches.

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/lift_angles



 

Paulfg

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Oct 19, 2020
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The reason why you're having a hard time finding the lift angles for these watches is the following. Lift angle is used for timing machine to determine amplitude. Timing machines are relatively recent American pocket watches are not. This means that there is no listing although it be interesting project of someone would make a listing. Or perhaps we the discussion group of people Who would share all of their listings. For instance the YouTube video in the second link below tells you how to figure out what the lift angle is for any watch. I find if you use a pen that fluoresces under UV light it makes it really really easy to see.

Then you'll find in newer tech sheets watch companies have published their lift angles and enterprising souls have made listings. Like at this link unfortunately no American pocket watches.

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/lift_angles



yes I understand this but thought as there is probably many of these old Pocket watches that have been serviced and timed in the last few years that maybe the lift angles had been established and logged somewhere
 

John Runciman

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yes I understand this but thought as there is probably many of these old Pocket watches that have been serviced and timed in the last few years that maybe the lift angles had been established and logged somewhere
Okay I'm sorry I lied I do know of someone who's logged a few numbers. At work I have a notebook I have somewhere between 10 and 20 pocket watches that I figured out the lift angle. But as far as anyone publishing this I've never seen it? I think you find most people just don't care. Either because they don't grasp what a lift angle is or they're just happy to see numbers on the timing machine just doesn't bother them.

Then realistically the lift angle is only a problem if you're obsessed with having the correct amplitude show up on the timing machine. Or you're concerned about your amplitude is either too low or too high and are hoping that lift angle will solve the problem.
 

praezis

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Lift angles of pocket watches are usually lower than those of wrist watches. Range is about 36 - 42 degrees.
If you enter a number in that range, you are much nearer to reality than with a pleasing but wrong 52 degrees.

Graham's advice is the better, of course.

Frank
 

John Runciman

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I was thinking if I was doing this for anything other than my own personal use it would've been better to lists serial numbers with description. As opposed to me just putting notes in a book for use at the time. The reason for serial numbers for American pocket watches you can look up and see exactly what it was.

If we look at the list below restricting it to American pocket watches 12 through 18 size. Then we end up with a range from 38° to 60°.

ball Illinois 12 size 45°
Elgin 12 size 55°
Elgin 18 size 49°
Elgin 590 16 size 21 J 48°
Elgin GM Wheeler 16 size 52°
Elgin six size 62°
Hamilton 12 size 48°
Hamilton 912 12 size 38°
Hamilton 940 16 size 60°
Hamilton 992 16 size 48°
Hamilton 992B 51.5°
Hamilton 992E 42°Louis Audemar 44°
Hampton 3/0 52°
Illinois 12 size 45°
Illinois 305 16 size 48°
Illinois six size 62°
Lange and Sohne 40°
Longines pocket watch 35°
Waltham 18 size 38.5°
Waltham 1888 16 size 60°
Waltham 21 jewel 645 16 size 42°
Waltham Crescent Street 45°
Waltham Riverside 16 size 44°
 

Paulfg

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Thank you for your replies Gentleman
I have looked at several of my watches with the lift angle set to 46 degrees and several have very low amplitude. Interestingly I have 2 Waltham traveler movements that show amplitude of about 140 with the lift angle set to 46 face down and up,they also have a large beat error of around 4
They were supposedly serviced when I recently aquired them.they both are keeping time in use to within a minute a day
 

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