Please Show the Most Recent Addition to Your EUROPEAN (and UK) Collection

[Ethan Lipsig]

Earlier this year, Clint Geller started an identically-titled thread in the American Pocket Watch forum except that Clint's title did not include the word EUROPEAN. I added it to the title of this thread to make it clear that this thread is for European pocket watches, just as Clint's is for American pocket watches.

I will start this thread off with the watch that I received in the mail today, a circa 1910-1920 Zenith that is only notable because its case is made of agate. Agate-cased Zeniths are scarce. I'd always wanted one. This one is about 50mm in diameter, about 16-size.

 

[Keith R...]

.Ethan, add your own time zones.

This is my first John Grant from 1790 in a 2nd Gen sterling pair case, ca 1834.
It was called a DR's watch, with a seconds bit.

Note, it is a verge fusee with chain and keeps time within 30 seconds in 24hrs.
My only Going barrels are English Tremonts from the 1870's. I also have rack levers,
levers and chronometers.

Keith R...

 

[Jerry Treiman]

... a circa 1910-1920 Zenith that is only notable because its case is made of agate. ...

As a geologist I gotta love this one!

 

[Jerry Treiman]

I know I already showed this in the American thread (as it was made for an American jeweler), but I really like it and it is still my most recent purchase. The 21-jewel movement was finished by Robert Cart (Le Locle, Switzerland) for Webb C. Ball. It dates from the 1920s.

 

[svenedin]

I don't have any watches at all that aren't European. So we are including British watches in this European thread -bit controversial!

These are my most recent European watches, both Swiss. 2 in white metal cases that are actually rather similar and are a kind of pair in my collection. Nice little watches but a pain to wind with their continental type crowns.

Omega, around 1956 I think from serial number. White metal case. Omega 161 15 jewels, Breguet hairspring



Zenith, not really sure on the date ? around 1960. White metal case. Zenith 18-28 15 jewels, Breguet hairspring, Incabloc.

 

[svenedin]

For good measure the Zenith and Omega with some other European watches of mine. All are 15 jewel Swiss movements except the JWB half-hunter which is 17 jewel. 5 of them for the British market. Zenith and Omega are white metal. 2 of the JWB's are sterling silver the other 9ct gold. Then another unsigned 9ct gold and an 18ct gold with swing-out case. Dates of these other watches 1920's and 1930's. As I use my watches all the time I do like these (relatively speaking) younger watches as they are reliable and not too fragile for everyday use. I have others that are just too old for anything other than occasional use including those with escapements inherently prone to wear e.g cylinders.

2 of the gold watches have hairlines on the dials. I do actually have period original replacement dials for these so they could be "perfect". Even though the dials would have been swapped out at the time of the original damage, if the owner had cared that much, I have resisted the temptation to interfere with their originality. I may feel differently about that if I came to sell as the price would be affected by damaged dials.

 

[Rich Newman]

I think its a great time to be a collector. Here's something a bit different that I found earlier this year - - I've always been interested in early Dutch makers but its an area of collecting that is difficult to research because there are just not a lot of reference books in English. This movement is signed Isaac Hasius, Haarlem. Haarlem is about 30 miles from Amsterdam and was a major trading center for tulips in the 17th century. The movement dates to about 1685. Its very deep and has wonderful quality finishing throughout. Notice that the balance table is secured with two screws, something I've not seen before. The hands and enamel dial in the Dutch arcade style replaced the original silver champlevé dial sometime in the mid-18th century to keep up with the fashion of the day. Isaac and his older brother Jacob were both well respected makers.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Rich,

We don't often have the opportunity to see a watch as old as this, just 10 years after the introduction of the balance spring, (by Huygens or Hooke; take your pick!). Perhaps the spiral motif on the cock table was meant to hint at the then rather new spiral balance spring underneath it. Whilst it has some subtle differences from English work of the time, there are also many similarities, including the use of a balance cock rather than a bridge. The lack of a border on the cock foot and slide plate are a good indication of the early date, as are the decorative screw heads. The cock foot became wider and almost straight on its inner edge as well as acquiring a distinct border towards the end of the 17th century.

Thanks for showing this.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Rich Newman]

Graham, thanks for your observations (as always).

I find this time period to be really interesting to read about and try to understand. Although wars were taking place between Holland, England, France, & Spain generation after generation, it seems that technical advances transcended borders fast and early watches signed by makers even in Augsburg and Nuremberg often also look the same as early English & Dutch pieces. I think that collaboration between makers in Holland and England in particular created what we think of as "early English style" but then all these countries developed their own fashion / styles. The verge and fusee technology became standard so when Huguenot makers escaping France immigrated to England (or Holland), they immediately were able to earn a living making watches (and cases) in the English style, or whatever style was wanted, and that really helped propel England into the dominant position.

I also think that makers such as the Fromanteel family who had locations in both England and Holland were making watches for both markets from both locations. Just makes sense that makers were foremost businessmen trying to maximize profit and they sourced labor and parts from everywhere available to them, and also took advantage of other's misfortunes (death & bankruptcies) to make more profit when they could. Maybe a relatively short window after the invention of the balance spring to become established and make a lot of money before competition started to catch up with demand. Just some thoughts that I'm sure has been covered by scholars in articles and books before but doesn't come up much anymore.

 

[musicguy]

This circa 1874 watch was cased and sold in the UK. It is my Most Recent Addition(got it this week).
It's a Private Label for Joseph D Hull Jeweler Dundee Scotland, established
and working out of 116 Murraygate in 1882-83
(217) - Towns > Dundee > 1809-1912 - Dundee directory > 1882-1883 - Scottish Directories - National Library of Scotland
same Jeweler from an earlier 1874 88 Murraygate
(177) - Towns > Dundee > 1809-1912 - Dundee directory > 1874-1875 - Scottish Directories - National Library of Scotland

The movement is (European/American) by the The Anglo American Watch Co.(Tremont Watch Co. Aaron Denison continuation)
Some parts are Swiss, some American and some from the UK








Rob

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

...........and a Sottish retailer.

 

[Keith R...]

Rob, I do believe this example is pre-English Tremont. Which would make it pretty rare.
Your SN# is in the range of the 3/4 plate English Tremont's. I consider Tom M. as our
expert on these. Please check on this unsigned full plate with our buddy Tom M.

Which might mean yours was truly made by the Anglo American Watch Co., of which
only a small number were recorded.

My last English full plate 15J.

Keith R...

 

[musicguy]

I will start this thread off with the watch that I received in the mail today, a circa 1910-1920 Zenith that is only notable because its case is made of agate.

Can you post some side shots of the case?

Thanks
Rob

 

[realfire]

Here is a cool omega that I just got a smokin deal on, the pics dont show but the hands are actually blue.. I go gaga anything Omega!

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Can you post some side shots of the case?

Thanks
Rob

Here they are, Rob.

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

Agate-cased

beautiful! wow!

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

My latest two acquisitions both are quarter repeaters, but special ones. I will describe one in this posting and the other in a subsequent posting.

The first of this pair is a tandem-wind, trip repeater, grande et petit sonnerie. A trip repeater uses the mainspring to power the repeat function, rather than a spring that is wound by moving the switch that triggers the repeater, such as a sliding switch on the rim. Hence, a trip repeater's repeat function is easier to trigger. My new trip repeater has a separate mainspring for the repeat function. A grande et petite sonnerie is a watch that rings the hours & quarter hours automatically. This feature can be turned on and off, and the watch can been switched between the grande and peitt modes (varying the frequency in which the time is chimed), by little switches in the rim.

This watch is in a nice 18k hunter case. The watch is 58mm in diameter. Its gross weight is 148 grams.

I don't know who made this watch. It isn't signed or marked anywhere. The 35 jewel movement looks like it might have been made by Louis Audemars or Louis-Elisee Piguet, but those are just guesses.


.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

The other quarter repeater I just acquired is special because it has a moon phase perpetual calendar with retrograde days of the month. A perpetual calendar is an utterly useless, but impressive complication. It automatically compensates for varying month lengths and leap years, a feature that only would be useful if the watch is continually run for months or years at a time, which it won't be doing while I own it. The retrograde feature is the hand that points to day of the month. When it reaches the end of the month, the hand automatically swings back to the first day of the month..

This watch is in a lovely 18k hunter case stamped B.H.J. & Cie (or maybe B.H. I. & Cie), which I understand to be short for B. Haas Jeune,.a fine maker that was the predecessor of Haas-Neveux, also a fine firm. The movement presumably was made by B. Haas too, but it, or its ebauche, may have been made by another firm..

The watch is about 52mm in diameter. Its gross weight is about 136 grams. It is in good condition except for a scratch on one of the winding wheels. I would love to remedy that scratch. If you have any advice as to what can be done or who could do it. please let me know.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Ethan,

It is in good condition except for a scratch on one of the winding wheels. I would love to remedy that scratch. If you have any advice as to what can be done or who could do it. please let me know.

These are both pretty impressive pieces. The ratchet and transmission wheels on this latter piece appear to be either flat polished or matte finished, either of which would make it easier for a skilled person to re-finish them, certainly far easier than if they were snailed. If your own watchmaker can't do this, they probably know a restorer who can.

Regards,

Graham

 

[jboger]

My most recent watch is that Martineau watch I posted pictures of in a different thread. It's dial is reminiscent of Rich's marvelous Dutch watch pictured above. That watch dates from the time of William and Mary. During this time there was much Dutch influence on English furniture, including the introduction of the cabriole leg so common on much English furniture--and Colonial--of the 18th C. So not surprised if similarities in watch design.

Question: How were these elaborate balance cocks made? I think in a mold. If so, I don't recall ever seeing two the same, even by the same maker.

 

[John Cote]

Beautiful watches Ethan.

 

[gmorse]

Hi John,

Question: How were these elaborate balance cocks made? I think in a mold. If so, I don't recall ever seeing two the same, even by the same maker.

These weren't moulded but made from plain balance cocks, drilled, pierced out, filed and engraved by hand, which accounts for the lack of uniformity. In the lower quality examples it's still possible to see the drill holes, especially from the underside, but in really good quality work the starting holes have all been merged into the design.

Regards,

Graham

 

[rstl99]

Well, I can only wish I had the deep pockets necessary to allow myself to acquire such wonderful watches as have been shown by others on this thread. I generally satisfy myself (like Major Chamberlain) with acquiring/rescuing/documenting watch movements from makers of some significance. In this regard, earlier this year I picked up this verge-fusee movement by French maker Pierre(François) LeRoy, much lesser-known brother of the famous Julien, and uncle to Julien's son Pierre (famous for his work on marine chronometers).

Anyway, the Pierre(François) LeRoy movement inspired me to do considerable research on its maker and his times, and write an article that will be published later this Fall in the NAWCC Bulletin. The article also deals with Pierre(François)'s famous brother and nephew, thereby covering that illustrious branch of the LeRoy family tree, which ended with Julien's son Pierre (featured on my avatar, for those who don't know).

Robert

 

[jmdunlap]

My latest addition will satisfy both the European and UK requirements. It is a Zenith initially used as a British HS3 Deck Watch and then reclassified/redesignated and redialed for use in a shipyards 'Work Study' program.

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

I received this watch early this week from London, I liked it as soon as I saw it with the name on the plate George Jamison Portsea. this is the Jamison who worked with Barraud and Howells, Colman and others, making the Mudge copies. Finding one cased by this maker is rare, and I have waited a long time, plus it runs well and holds good time for a Verge, even in the pocket, but I don´t go jogging with it.
Both cases with the same hallmarks 1795/6.

You can work the rest out, it's fun.

Best wishes,

Allan.

 

[svenedin]

My latest addition will satisfy both the European and UK requirements. It is a Zenith initially used as a British HS3 Deck Watch and then reclassified/redesignated and redialed for use in a shipyards 'Work Study' program.

View attachment 610286 View attachment 610287 View attachment 610288

There were a lot of these. Repurposed by the ministry of defence (and others), now particularly useless not even being able to tell the time. Nice movements though.

 

[PatH]

Both cases with the same hallmarks 1795/6.

Do you have a picture of the watch paper? Does it seem to be original to the watch? Thanks!

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

Do you have a picture of the watch paper? Does it seem to be original to the watch? Thanks!

The watch paper Pat. Sorry to say I think this is a photograph of an original, which had a piece missing, top left, then made to look old. Pity I would like to have read all that it had to say.

Regards,

Allan.

 

[D.th.munroe]

I can't afford these kinds of beautiful complete watches either so Like Robert I try to collect and repair interesting broken movements. Not so much for intersting makers but ones with technical differences. (Although interesting makers is something I look for)
Anyway not here yet but my latest acquisition is this one, should be interesting.
Vintage R & G Beesley Liverpool 16S SER:19755 Pocket watch Movement!!! | eBay
Dan

 

[Durruti]

My latest acquisition (and pehaps the last this year):



I like the bicompax-arrangement and I'wondering why JJ invented this system of setting the watch by the bow.

Peter

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

I snagged this little Agassiz. It's a pretty thing. Have been looking at them for a long time, so for $30 couldn't pass it up.

Actually the only thing this purchase did was further push me towards a nice, larger, cased example...

The setting mechanism was of interest, and I haven't been able to match it with anything yet. Started digging around the WIPO last night... Wow what a rabbit hole!

I have a Swiss .800 silver case that it fits so eventually it will have a home. Didn't know what size it was untill it arrived. A wee bit smaller than American 10s.

Anyways... it's beautiful, it runs, it's interesting and I like it. The history is quite hazy, it's been fun reading past threads.

I'wondering why JJ invented this system of setting the watch by the bow.

Setting the watch by the bow, very interesting. Beautiful watch!

Patent Images

Here is the patent. Within the first few paragraphs it explains the intentions of this bow setting.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

My latest acquisition is this two-tone 18k "Heures Sautantes" aka "Chronoscope" Gubelin PL, almost certainly made by Robert Cart. See https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/bregue...ou-seen-one-in-circulation.58953/#post-533775, and see post 4 in this thread.

The minute "hand" on this watch is a disc inside the minute track. The minutes are denoted by the pointer on this disc with the broad arrowhead. The hours are shown in the little window near the point of that arrowhead. The hours jump when the arrowhead reaches "60".

 

[Bila]

Very Nice Ethan, a Stunner

 

[musicguy]

Very nice!

Rob

 

[SethSimon]

Hi all! I am strictly a "budget" collector, so can't share the likes of what I see shared here - but I thought this recent $10 purchase was interesting! Key wind and set. Heavily brassed case. But otherwise a nice runner! I like how the dial back has serial number written on it. Evidently Piguet was a common name in Switzerland at that time--several makers/shops with that last name. Anyone know anything more on this one?

 

[Benjamin E.]

A couple of recent well finished English movements, one from A. Johannsen and the other Smith & Son. The former runs very nicely and has a perfect dial. The Smith has a broken staff but is otherwise lovely. I've tried to capture the double overcoil on the hairspring. Both have keyless works. I also recently bought a Poole chronometer that I'll write up in a different post.

 

[Dr. Jon]

That Smith is wonderful!, Not just the double overcoil but the raised and engraved barrel,keyless fusee and timing nts on the balance wheel.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

While the American pocket watch version of this thread remains very popular (1261 postings), this European & UK pocket watch thread never became popular and has become moribund. It ought to be revived. So, here is one of my most recent acquisitions, a pretty, enameled 18k Patek Philippe. It was made in 1916 or 1917. It has a nice 20-jewel/8 adjustment movement.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

I just received a circa 1875 H. R. Ekegren quarter-repeater that I bought in a recent auction. It is in an 18k rose gold hunter case signed by Ekegren, #16,237, bearing the coat of arms of the noble Colonna family, with a WAC? monogram. See Colonna family - Wikipedia. I asked the Palazzo Colonna and Eri231 for assistance in identifying the original owner. Neither could identify him. Eri231 noted that "there are several branches of the Colonna family, not only in Rome. In Italy, it is widespread from Veneto to Puglia and Sicily, and even in the rest of the world. It is therefore difficult to trace the owner. The band around the coat of arms was not in use in Italy, but rather in Anglo-Saxon markets. The drawing of the column is simplified. The capital at the top is missing. I can't find any Colonna with an initial W. Also, I see that the C is small and at the bottom. Perhaps it is a branch of the [Colonna] family [outside of Italy]."

The watch has a black enamel dial with Arabic numerals and subseconds dial; spade and whip hands. It is 52mm in diameter. Its gross weight is a hefty 135 grams. It has a PW/LS gilt bridge movement. The setting lever returns to winding position when the case is closed, which is a common H.R. Ekegren feature. It has a counterpoised escapement, Breguet hair spring, wolf's tooth winding gears. The movement does not have a visible serial number, but it presumably is the same as the case serial number.

 

[viclip]

LIP Hunting Chronograph

I recently took delivery of this working 43 mm. LIP-branded chronograph housed in a Niello hunting case. The chronograph mechanism is of the single-pusher variety, being my favorite (no worry about pushing the wrong button at the wrong time & breaking something!).

The hands seem mismatched to me so before taking the watch in for servicing I'll try to find something better.

I believe that the chronograph mechanism was made by Valjoux & I suspect that Valjoux provided the movement per se. Any input on that score would be appreciated.

 

[agemo]

Hi,
Yes indeed this caliber is it seems to me a Valjoux 8, Lip used many movements from Valjoux.

Amicalement GG

 

[viclip]

Hi,
Yes indeed this caliber is it seems to me a Valjoux 8, Lip used many movements from Valjoux.

Amicalement GG

Good to know, thanks agemo!

 

[miguel angel cladera]

A nice Rack Lever by R. Cripps, circa 1810

A Rack Lever Pocket Watch By R. Cripps

A lo largo de sucesivas entradas en nuestra categoría sobre "relojes de bolsillo" hemos intento ilustrar el gran ingenio que imperó a mediados del s. XVIII y principios del XIX en el ámbito de la…

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