Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Clint Geller, Jan 5, 2020.
From the bottom of the Havana Harbor
Great link! Love learning about them.
I wanted to share this one from the late 1700's. It is a Dublin cylinder in a case from 1862.
The next level in early watch accuracy made the cylinder a must have for many. They are
almost as tough a a verge, but much more accurate when properly adjusted. The only problem
was the cases would wear out in the pocket.
I'm timing this one tonight. I get most of mine out of the UK, so they survive shipping quite
well. I'd say circa 1795. Dial and minute hand are replacements. Dial post 1850.
I guess there were a lot of these commemorative watches around in the late 90s. I saw one with Dewey's flagship the Olympia pictured on the dial. The seller wanted a mint for it.
Stickfly: Great movement on that Hamilton. I love it!
My newest edition to my drawer came in the mailbox today.
A 1905 model 5 grade 79. This was listed as not running, but runs very well and is keeping accurate time ao far. Nice case, although I cannot make out the makers mark. Also having trouble keeping the front to stay closed.
This isn't my most recent addition but it's a relatively new one. It had (and still has) some issues, but rare is still rare and I'm willing to accept a few flaws in such pieces. It is #101108 and I already own #101109.
Illinois Grade 187, #2245517, a less common variant in which the movement is marked “Illinois Watch Co.”. Dial marked O J Armbruster (Otto Julius), Springfield, Ill,
My 2nd Shugart 1* 'find' of the year, a 23J Vanguard in Hunter/Stem Set configuration. It arrived in pieces but it is complete apart from the mainspring, a couple of screws, a broken balance staff and jewel. I purchased it as spares and didn't check it out 'till it came in the post, another hole filled in my 1908 collection.
Great watch Greg! Does the consecutive number have a similar nickel damascene?
Similar, but it's at the bank so a direct comparison isn't possible right now.
Not an especially recent addition but then I haven't added too many watches to my collection of late.
Is that a pinned dial foot I see left of the balance cock? I don't recall ever seeing a movement with these red caps and a pinned dial.
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.
All the dial feet are pinned. The red caps are non-functional.
I found these 6 Hamilton dials for $36.00 on eBay last week
4 of them 16s and 2 18s. One of the 18s is a conversion
dial for a Hunting movement. I was looking for the Black 4992B
dial and basically got the rest for free.
I was going to put this in the export thread... But the case and movement dates do not match up, so we can't be sure.
This is a model 1884. It is 11 jewel in pairs. Keywind. Breguet spring. Profile plate. Dates come in from 1892-94.
The case is Alfred Bedford, sterling and if I'm reading the date letter correctly it's from 1876, so it doesn't have a darn thing to do with this movement. Most likely originally came holding a model 70.
First thing I did was check if a 1870-14 fits and matches the keyholes, and it does. So does an Elgin 14s Keywind.
On a brighter note this is an incredibly solid and well built movement. I finished the service today and it's +14 without any extra work, so I'm a happy camper. Run it in for a couple days and recheck everything and regulate. It's been sitting here for a while, I'm happy to finally get it done.
This will definitely see some consistent pocket time.
I have always had an attraction to watches from first runs. According to Wayne's Elgin database this Lady Elgin was made circa 1868, it arrived in my mailbox this week. I really like finding watches 150 + years old that are still complete and unmolested. Here is my latest addition.
Envy? Jealousy? I can't pinpoint the correct emotion, haha. But congrats that's awesome.
I have 40709. Movement only.
Finding these in cases is quite a chore... Let alone original. Nice!
0s 7j Seaside. Bought off Etsy with another watch (Swiss) for $40. Needed a full teardown for cleaning and lube. Running good now. Comps off Ebay look promising. That is, IF I sell...
This maker was so mesmerized upon this watches completion, they forgot to sign it. But it's
smiling with 14 jewels of teeth, from 1828 (Liverpool).
Case & movement number match.
Keith, it is clear to me that the maker of your watch was so confident of the virtue of his approach of restrained simplicity that he knew that the watch would be immediately recognisable to all as being of his manufacture! Do you have any theories as to the identity of that maker, by any chance?
I suspect Alex Purvis (influence) of London John..............(king of simplicity).
The main exporter was Tobias of Liverpool to NY. So a Liverpool product of
I think the movement in post #219 could have been made in London or Liverpool.
See archives for "English lever fusee 1828". Same movement made in London for
an Irish watch. The retailer is O'shaunessy of Cork.
Note, purchased in a UK auction. Example in #219 sold inside England proper
and required no retailer (made to suit).......ie........... employee watch perhaps?
It has the crows feet though for Liverpool.
An Illinois 12s grade 409 private label "The Cowell & Hubbard Co." with burnished jewells setings. Hope you like.
These are great watches. I especially like the somewhat simple finish on these and highly polished winding wheels.
As The Beach Boys sang in the early '60s - "She's real fine, my 409 ..."
Thank you jerry. I red that only was made 70 for "The Cowell & Hubbard" jewerlly with the burnished jewells. its true? Why they want with this configuration? Any thougths? This private brand import european top watches like Patek... They sold this watches like mine to fill a North American customer market niche with purchasing power? wats the price of this Illinois in 1916 comparing to the european brands? Maybe I have many questions...
another better picture
United States Watch Co grade 3/4 plate Model - serial # 52626 stemwind & slide lever set - had it for years just finally got to the repairs. the nice double index regulator - a very hard one to find ! I'm sure it's original gold case has long been melted.
Very nice movement, Bob. Any idea how many of these 3/4 plate USWCo grade movements they made? I haven't seen many of them.
The USWCo Marion book estimates United States Watch Co model 2 at about 175 - I'm inclined to think that that could be about right since it is very hard to find - My experience is 16 size 1/4 plate watches are the most difficult to find. My hope is Jon or someone will update the book as there are many more movements recorded & needs a few detail corrections to what is printed.
One of these days I might get #52628 restored.
I just picked up this Rockford watch, Grade 76, 18s, 15j, SN 279129... only 500 made. I bought it for both the relative rarity, and in particular the dial with the locomotive under full steam. It also has a nice Crescent hinged back and bezel GF (?) case. The dial is in pretty good shape with a couple of hairlines between 10 and 11.
I hadn't seen this dial before, but I'm relatively new to the hobby. Has anyone else seem many Rockfords with this dial?
That double sunk dial with the R.W. Co. and the locomotive is quite nice.
Thanks! I thought so too!
A couple more Rockford train dials along with the mvt for the second one:
Gorgeous watch and dials, Greg. How were those watch images created on the dials? Any idea?
I didn't realize until I looked very closely (with a jewelers loupe) today, it also has "R.W. Co." intertwined in the smoke coming from the engine (see photo).
Elgin 0s, Ladies watch. 1905, 7j. The case is of 20 year gold, I believe it’s a double hunter case(?)
I believe it was at some point a gift to a nurse, as you can see the medical symbol engraved above the case number. Engraved on the inside is the name “Sarah Barnard.” It’s absolutely beautiful! Enjoy!
Hi Ben - that is a lovely little ladies' pendant watch with really fresh-looking engraving on the case cover. The caduceus inside the cover is merely the logo for the Fahys Watch Case Co. and would not indicate any medical connection. Fahys, by the way, made very good cases.
I am not sure what you mean though by "double-hunter". This is not a term that was used in the watch case industry, although I have seen it used by some eBay sellers. A hunting-case watch has a cover over the watch face and a cover in the back, usually with a second inner cover (also called a cuvette or dust cover or cap). This is what you have. There is also a half-hunter, more commonly seen on some English watches, which has a small window in the cover over the face so the time may be read without opening the front cover. A watch without a cover over the face (except for the crystal) is simply an open-face watch. Hunting case watches usually have the winder at the 3 o'clock position and open-face watches usually wind at the 12.
Nice find Ben, these little watches are very nice. I just bought a
0s Elgin myself as well(but it's on it's way to me now so no photos).
Perhaps the bastardized term "double hunter" was invented by eBay sellers hoping to double their profits. Sadly, that term lately even has crept into museum catalog descriptions of watches, though fortunately, not in our own NAWCC museum.
Of course, there are watchcases with lift springs on both lids, but I would call these either split push piece cases, or "magic bow" cases, depending on their mechanical arrangements. (Magic bow mechanisms engage and disengage the front and rear lift springs when the bow is rotated through 180 degrees.) I have attached images of two examples of the former variety: a Howard Model 1858 Type E divided plate keywind (a.k.a., Series II) with matching movement and case serial number, 2,076, in a case by Baldwin & Co. (a maker known for innovative case designs, such as their patented reversibles); and a Waltham AT&Co grade 20 Size keywind, movement SN 100,822, in a case with no maker's mark, but with an interesting 1864 presentation to Captain John Eddy of the 95th IL Infantry. (Captain Eddy, a combat veteran, was by then on detached service as a quartermaster at Camp Butler, a Union Army recruit collection and training base near Springfield, IL.) Both examples are nominally 18 karat gold.
Perhaps someone else can show a magic bow case, as I don't have an image of one handy to show.
Given that the dials probably date to 1888 or later I would assume a transfer process. I have an old article that discusses, among other things, dial making and shows the tool used in one factory.
Clint, attached photo of an English movement cased in the US..E.D. Johnson # 16588.. The 18k hunter case has the mark M.W.B. & Co. One push piece.... with the bow folded to the case back, push piece opens spring loaded front cover... Fold bow to the front cover, piece piece opens spring loaded rear cover...
I show another M.W.B. & Co. case here, but without the magic bow mechanism:
American 18k Case Mark
The pumpkin style pendants on these two cases are very similar. I have seen the "M.W.B. & Co." marking on silver cases too.
2 tone '88. I've had the movement for about a month or so, I just finally got a "decent" case for this pretty 2 tone. Got a GF case coming in from Canada next week for my other 2 tone so stay tuned.
I have a different theory: the maker intended this item for export as a private label watch, but the ultimate buyer declined to pay extra to have his own name engraved on it.
Keith, was the watch already in the US when you purchased it?
Purchased out of the UK
Clint is correct I think.............Once the "no pay" flag hits, movement could
go for export to US and South America or "no export". Once it was "no export",
an English jeweler could finish and case it.
I do think it lived a long drawer life.
*** UK Estate
I just bought 3 watches for $88.03 (shipping + tax included). Two are dollar watches. I "bought the dial" on the third (the movement and serial number weren't shown). It is the shorthanded Rockford below. It is in the most crippled swingout case I've ever seen, but the movement runs. It is a 21J, Model 9, Grade 945, SN 932019 (2250 made). It is not marked "King Edward" as indicated in the lookup table.
Here is my new addition. An 1887 fifth pinion grade I.W.C. . I also bought the case and dial, he did not provide a picture of the movement. I am very happy for 40.00.
You got a neat Rockford, even if it is a little the worse for wear, StanJS. It doesn't appear to be a King Edward, as reported in the table, but others might know more than I do.
Here's a fairly recent one for me. It's in very good condition; hope it's as rare as the sources tell me it is. Whether or no, it's a nice watch.
The English watch trade were conservative with jeweling. In the early 1820's
most were 9 jewel watches. Here is a 14J watch from 1828. You have the 7
unseen jewels, 2 jewels per window and the end stone = 14 jewels. It was an
English cased watch purchased at auction from an English estate out of UK.
I'm currently timing it. I don't like buying from experienced sellers of non-watch
items like silver spoons. They tend to move the reg index arm to convince the
buyer it was a working watch. So you can see in the sellers pics where the reg
arm is close to Fast. It ran +56 minutes in 24 hours. The best way to tackle
this, is move it back to mid point and time it. Then adjust from there. That will
begin tomorrow at 1:15 P.M.
I generally post my results in my "Odd Lot Thread", on the European side.
This 990 Luckenbach arrived today.
This series 10 Howard (Keystone) arrived yesterday. Cert matches watch. It's the one on the left. The one on the right I have had for a time.
The AL Jobe/Ball 999A 18s was earlier this week.
Another Manhattan arrived as well but it needs work. Still it is the first nickel case time only no seconds one I have in the collection.