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Clint Geller

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Interest and desirability of consecutive serial numbers varies among collectors, and my own interest focuses on how it demonstrates consistency or variability in watch production. However, whereas most of the time we think about consecutive movement serial numbers my research on case makers makes consecutive cases of interest too. I just bought the watch on the right in this photo and previously found the one on the left. Both have 10-size Waltham Colonial-A movements cased by H.W. Matalene around 1921.
View attachment 671322 View attachment 671321

The cases - numbers 7203 & 7204 - are essentially identical. Over the course of 100 years #7204 has had a bow replacement and both may have gotten new crowns, but otherwise they help demonstrate the short-term consistency of his production. Another observed example of the same case is numbered 7200 and I do not know how many others may have been made in this presumed production run. About a dozen cases earlier is another example in the same style, but for Waltham's 14-size Colonial-A.
Since Jerry brought up consecutive serial numbers, here is the only pair of consecutively serial numbered watches I ever owned, but they are doozies: E. Howard & Co. SNs 132 and 133. Both are 17 jewel First Run E. Howard & Co. Model 1858 ("Series I") movements. Notice the differences in balance wheel spars, plate cuts, engraving styles, and dial signatures, which together reveal the rapidly evolving nature of Howard's earliest products. Movement SN 132 is in a Baldwin reversible case with matching SN. Movement SN 133 is in a gorgeous Palmers & Batchelder 18K hunting case. It was painful to let these watches go, but they both now belong to good friends.

SN 132 dial JPG.jpg SN 132 interior case lid JPG.jpg SN 132 movt.jpg EH&Co SN 133 dial JPG.jpg EH&Co SN 133 movt JPG.jpg
 
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PapaLouies

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Dave Coatsworth

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Always wanted one of these 'fan' patterns...

Waltham3275092Dial.jpg Waltham3275092Mvmt.jpg

I'm finding a James L. Hannify listed as a 'practical plumber' in Waltham, Mass. In 1897, he was elected to the Board of Plumbing Inspectors. Perhaps a personalized dial for the owner?
 
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Paul Sullivan

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Elgin 240, 18s, 19j adjusted.

I recently purchased this early BWR ( #8577839), from the first run of the 18s OF model 8 240 made about 1899-1900. Over the next 12 years Elgin would make some 68000 them.

240 mvmnt.jpg Elgin 240 1st run  240 19j dial 1.jpg collage.jpg


The watch is in very nice condition with a perfect enamel double sunk dial and clean movement. It came in a polished Keystone three hinged OF Silveroid case, with a simple die engraved detail on the case ring. Additional screw marks show previous tenants occupied the case before the 240, yet it still looks new, with all three closures fitting perfectly.

The 18s model 8/9 3/4 plate and it's similar 16s stable mate are two of my favorite Elgin models to collect and I'm always looking about to find a reason (aka excuse) to add one to the collection at a reasonable price. This watch fit the bill being from the first run and also the first 18s 19j watch Elgin made.
 

Jerry Treiman

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Thanks Rick, it is very clean but will need a balance staff repair, but got it for o great price. The Crescent street was also a good deal, and is running nice, I was really attracted to the dial signature, never seen one like that.
 

Lee Passarella

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I've come to really admire these watches with wind indicators. Here are two recent acquisitions. I got the Rockford 655 at the Southeast Regional on Labor Day weekend. The logo on the back of the case is that of the Knights of Pythias, a group that once numbered some big names among its membership. I'd vaguely heard of it before.
I got the 16s Waltham Crescent Street at a good price. It's my second, so now I probably have one too many. Or maybe not.

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Greg Frauenhoff

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I've come to really admire these watches with wind indicators. Here are two recent acquisitions. I got the Rockford 655 at the Southeast Regional on Labor Day weekend. The logo on the back of the case is that of the Knights of Pythias, a group that once numbered some big names among its membership. I'd vaguely heard of it before.
I got the 16s Waltham Crescent Street at a good price. It's my second, so now I probably have one too many. Or maybe not.

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Lee,

Very nice watches. On the subject of Knights of Pythias and Rockford here's a fancy dial I once owned:

 

Nick23

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I have acquired this Thomas Russell private label Waltham recently. It's a 1894 Model, 235 Grade from a run of 75 that dates to 1918. With a very nice double sunk dial and 17j movement in a Sterling silver Dennison case.
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It will join my other Thomas Russell watches. The oldest being a silver pair cased verge, serial number 156 that dates to 1804/5, (active 1804 to 1830) in it's original silver pair case by John Ellison of Liverpool that also dates to 1804/5. This is the original Thomas Russell whose sons and grandsons went on to build the famous Russell's of Liverpool Watch Company.
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musicguy

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Great pair of Russell watches!


Rob
 

Jerry Treiman

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It's a 1894 Model, 235 Grade from a run of 75 that dates to 1918.
I really like this one. With Waltham, when you see movements in small odd "runs", rather than runs of 100, 500 or 1,000, these are often special orders. I have seen a grade 235 from the preceding run of hunting case movements that was also a "Russell Model" with one of these lovely English dials. I would expect this string of small runs, which also included some 16-size movements, were all for Russell.
 

Rick Hufnagel

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This has been on my radar for a while! This is my very own copy of the 1896 Elgin Material catalog with serial number list! It has a bit of color loss on the cover but is overall in good shape. The inside of the book still looks brand new. It must have not been used very much.

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I tried to purchase one last year "private labeled" for P.W. Ellis. It was sold by a Canadian book seller but unfortunately the transaction got messed up and now they seem to be closed. Still just thrilled to get to add this one to the library.

Books and information are certainly just as exciting as watches!
 

Paul Sullivan

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Illinois two-tone 16s 305 marked "Great Northern Special" made about 1920.


Ill_305_Tu_Tone_dial.jpg Ill_305_Tu_Tone_mvmnt.jpg Tu_Tone_305 _Collage.jpg

I bought this watch, along with the Elgin 240 from post #956, back in August. It came in a Star nickel/base metal SB&B case (not original) and oddly some one seems to have used some type of mechanical engraver to remove whatever was stamped under the makers name and above the serial number. Like Hamiltons marked in a similar way I'm not sure what, if anything, "special" meant.
 

179

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Much like the Southern Special, just marketing. I cannot see the removal you mention.
 

179

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I missed it at 7:20 this morning, before leaving for Dr. appt. at 8:00. No coffee or food, had to fast. I was just looking at a Star case with Nickle under the logo.
 
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Rick Hufnagel

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Cool watch, Jay

Otis Hoyt had an interesting career. He was born in Massachusetts in 1838, died in Elgin on June 2nd of 1885. Buried in Elgin.

I was just reading about him yesterday while rereading a section of Abbott's "Watch factories of America past and present", although there are some inconsistencies

In the Elgin chapter:
He went to work for the Waltham company in 1858. He left Waltham to join the war, and when discharged in 1864 he went with G. Hunter and others to start up and work the Elgin factory.

It says in 1867 he moved to California because of an illness, and subsequently went back to Waltham for a brief period before moving to Springfield Illinois to become the superintendent of the factory, which he did untill 1871. In this year he moved back to Elgin to take charge of the train room, which was his position untill his death.

Strangely a few chapters later under the Illinois Watch company, Mr Hoyt is described as being the superintendent of the Illinois factory from 1875-78... So Mr. Abbott strikes again. I don't know which one is true. I doubt he could fill both positions in two cities at one time. Lets go check out Ancestry.

Dates and locations from ancestry search:
1865 state census in Elgin
1867 (city directory) Elgin
Oct 28 1869 (civil war pention slip) Illinois
1870 Census in Springfield
1872 (Springfield directory) watchmaker
1873 and 74 (Springfield directories) "foreman Springfield watch co"
1880 in Elgin

It seems to me, from these records, that both of Abbotts accounts of Mr. Hoyt, one from the Elgin chapter and one from the Illinois chapter of the book... Are both wrong to some extent about when he returned to Elgin, and when he was superintendent of Illinois.

Anyways....
Why do I like the Hoyt grade? They actually named it after one of the men on the ground making it happen. Someone influential in production. Getting his hands dirty and doing the job. Sorry if I have a soft spot for those sorts of people. :). I always believed Me. Moseley should have had a named grade as well.

Sorry I went off the rails there. It's something I've looked into before.
 

Paul Sullivan

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I had only one E.Howard /Keystone in my collection that I bought over 9 tears ago, a 12s Series 7 model 1908.

Over the years I purchased watches from mainly Hamilton, Elgin, Waltham, and Illinois, with one or two examples of Rockford, Hampden, Columbus, and South Bend. Recently I have been looking at some examples posted in this thread and started seeing what was available on line. I bought this E. Howard series 11 model E back in September. A very nice watch, running well, and in good condition.

E.Howard_16s_series_11 Dial.JPG E.Howard_16s_series_11_mvmnt.JPG collage2.jpg
I particularly like the "spidery" train bridge, though I'm guessing it must be a bit of a challenge to line up all four of the pinions when reassembling
the movement.
 

StanJS

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My latest is an Elgin 16s, 21J, Grade 374, Father Time, S/N 19,641,286, with an up/down indicator, circa 1916, about 2500 production, that I bought accidentally. I was watching the auction and came in 7 minutes before the close with the bid in the high 400s. I thought I'd be a jerk (to the bidder and a hero to the seller) and boot the bid higher figuring that I couldn't afford the watch and I'd watch the flurry of bidding as the auction closed. My bid was $506...and it was the last bid. Not another bid for 7 whole minutes. With shipping and handling, it wound up in my mailbox for $566.02. Now I have buyer's remorse and figure I must have paid too much.

It needs a good COA. The balance wheel swings freely, but it doesn't run when wound. The case threads have issues and the back doesn't screw all the way down. The threads may need a good cleaning. I don't usually buy watches this new, but I will admit that I LOVE that dial!

Elgin19641286Back.jpg Elgin19641286Dial.jpg Elgin19641286Face.jpg Elgin19641286Movement.jpg
 

musicguy

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Nice one Stan!


Rob
 

richiec

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Good luck getting it running and straightening the threads. I haven't pulled the trigger on anything over $400 in the last 10 years, hoping to retire sometime soon but am still hooked on watches.
 
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Clint Geller

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My watchmaker just got finished cleaning this beauty, a recent addition to my collection: open face stem wind, lever set American Watch Company Grade Model 1872, SN 2,788,104, circa 1888 with 21 ruby jewels in gold screwed down settings, gold train, raised gold screwed down jewel settings, Breguet overcoil hairspring, Fogg's cam regulator and safety pinion, and glass enamel Gothic A.W.Co. dial. Adjusted to HCI6P, in a drum style case with corrugated edge, signed "Waltham 14K". The outer portions of the winding wheels display a subtle radial line pattern similar to those found on 19 jewel American Watch Company grade Model 1888 movements, which complement the more elaborate decorative patterns on the inner portions.

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Clint Geller

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Here is another recent acquisition, a 16 jewel Appleton, Tracy & Company grade Model 1859 with Fitts's patented reversing center pinion, SN 31,950 finished in May 1860, in an 18K gold open face Robbins & Appleton case. The two-line reversible center pinion patent marking is more elaborate than the single-line patent marking on my 19 jewel American Watch Co. grade Model 1859 example from a later run, SN 40,126 finished in November 1860. The 19 jewel movement is shown for comparison. The apparently original gold hunting case of the later movement is approximately 16K pure and is marked "T.B.B."

M59 dial side.jpeg M59 movement SN 31,950 - pik #1.jpeg M59 movement SN 31,950 balance closeup.jpeg M59 case rear.jpeg M59 R&A 18K case marking (2).jpeg New Movt 5.jpg
 
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meatlips01

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This seems like a fun thread with lots of beauty shots! I figured I'll drop some in as well!

These aren't necessarily recent acquisitions as they are recent restorations. They are as follows going clockwise:


1. Elgin Veritas Model 8 Grade 239 (10372423)
2. Elgin Veritas Model 8 Grade 214 (13425750)
3. Waltham Vanguard Model 1908 (19011738)

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Here's the sexy beauty shots:

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My Grade 239 Veritas needs some more adjustment as it's gained a few minutes over the last week. The vanguard has gained a minute in the last two weeks. and the 23j Grade 214 Veritas has been dead nut on time for the last three weeks. I'm actually most impressed with it since I did the most balance work to it, ig had to straighten and poise the wheel as it was wobbly, replace the roller jewel since the original was broken in half and not even the right size, replace both balance jewels as they were both cracked. I also had to replace the center wheel from a donor movement as it was bent and also hitting the balance. Overall, it's currently the best timekeeper out of my entire collection.
 

DTSPatrick

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Added a new watch to the collection — the 12s movement is in nice condition but rather plain compared to the very interesting 18k gold A.W.C.Co case marked “Palais Royal Mexico”. I found silverware and a few other non-watch items with this particular trademark on google (not much else) — is anyone familiar with this trademark? Is it a store? Is it the royal palace gift shop in Mexico? Whatever the story, it stuck out from the crowd and I decided to buy it.
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Ethan Lipsig

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Palais Royal was a jewelry store in Mexico City. I found a picture of it on La Ciudad en el Tiempo: joyerías del Centro Histórico, which said of it: "View of the surroundings of the "Palais Royal" jewelry building, at the corner of 16 de Septiembre and Palma, at the end of the 1940s. Although with another business line, this property remains standing to this day. Image: Col. Villasana - Torres"

The website has historic photos of other Mexico City jewelers, such as La Esmeralda.

'
 

Clint Geller

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Added a new watch to the collection — the 12s movement is in nice condition but rather plain compared to the very interesting 18k gold A.W.C.Co case marked “Palais Royal Mexico”. I found silverware and a few other non-watch items with this particular trademark on google (not much else) — is anyone familiar with this trademark? Is it a store? Is it the royal palace gift shop in Mexico? Whatever the story, it stuck out from the crowd and I decided to buy it.
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I love the case.
 

Joe Blossic

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Last found in the mailbox:
Circa 1795 Thomas Parker, Watch & Clockmaker in Philadelphia, PA, a verge fusee, 3 jewel, presumably an English-made import, American signed movement. SN86 with matching dust-cap serial number. KWKS verge escapement, diamond endstone, gilt movement.

50mm silver OF pair cases, the inner bearing London hallmarks for 1763, the outer bearing London hallmarks for 1770 and containing a case paper for Caleb Baker of Bordentown, N.J.

3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG 1.JPG 2.JPG 6.JPG img (0) fix.jpg

Thomas Parker (1761-1833) was a descendant of English Quakers who settled in Philadelphia in 1684. He was trained by David Rittenhouse and John Wood in clock and watch making. He began business around 1783 at 13 S. 3rd. St., just after the Revolution in the first days of the New Nation era. His clocks are better known and documented. He was master to Benjamin Ferris, Wilmington, DE, (1780-1867) who sold a clock to Thomas Jefferson in 1803.

From 1814-1830 Parker served as the President of the Mechanic's Bank. He also was responsible for the care and maintenance of the State House clock. He supplied the chronometer to the Lewis and Clark Expedition (1804), which at $250 was the single most expensive item purchased for the expedition.

Although the watch was running and in relatively good shape after 225 years, it did have the expected well worn pivots and corresponding oval bushings, which were closed slightly to make them less so. The hairspring was not centered and that was fixed to have concentric, evenly spaced coils.

The biggest issue was a link was found to be cracked, likely due to the frozen cone pawl that was addressed. The repair was to tap out the pin, remove one link, clean up the mating links, fabricate a new pin and reassemble. I found this to be fascinating, as the width of the link at its largest point is only 0.65mm, or about 7 sheets of standard copy paper! I put those images below.
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Reassembled, timed, disassembled, adjusted, repeat as need. Finishing touches performed of fabricating a new bow pin, replacing a wrong hour hand with one that matched the others and bluing all the hardware.

When it arrived, I ran it face up and it gained about 2 minutes initially, returning to zero deviation at 12 hours, and loss of a minute at 16 hours. Wound, set and hung pendant up where is lost about 30 seconds in the first 8 hours and was minus 3 minutes at 12 hours. Repeated these runs and got similar results so there is high confidence this is the level it is at, which from what I read is excellent for a verge fusee.

I was, and am, only going to own one of these and having one with ties to Philadelphia, which is a short ride from me, and from the period of time of shortly after the Revolutionary War (I live a few miles from the Sept 11, 1777 Battle of Brandywine, the largest and longest battle of the war; more troops fought at Brandywine than any other battle of the American Revolution) this was going to be the one. I am more than ecstatic with how well it turned out and deeply appreciative of the time, effort and skill of Eric Unselt to make it look and work as good as it does, and provide this level of documentation. "It is pretty wild that a mechanical device built around Geo. Washington's unanimous vote for the presidency is still capable of coordinating a day in the life of corporate America in 2021."
 

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