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DTSPatrick

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Beautiful watch MM. I really like the look of Romans on an open face dial. Nice heavy looking 14k case. Is that a Roy case? I’ve been looking for an open face clean case for a while now with little success.

Did you have any trouble removing the stem on either of your watches when you recased? I just posted a question in the “repair“ section regarding this. I’m having a difficult time getting one of my 88‘s out of the case.
 

Steven Thornberry

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My latest after a long time is a 16S 21jewel William McKinley Grade by Hampden, made ca. 1913. Though not completely apparent from the picture of the movement, close inspection shows that it has been re-cased in a 10K GF Keystone J. Boss case. Still a nice looking watch. The word "patented" is shown at the bottom of the inscription, possibly an allusion to the following patent granted to James Boss in 1859: US23820. There could be other patents meant, however. The date added to the case, 4-6-10 (or 9-6-10) perhaps is the date the movement was re cased, April (Sept.) 6, 2010.

Dial.JPG Inside back.jpg Movement2.jpg
 

Clint Geller

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Clint Geller

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Here is my latest completed project: American Watch Company Grade 20 Size Keywind movement SN 50,042, with Nashua Watch Company assembly number 163, in an eagle-marked Charles E. Hale & Co. gold engine turned KW20 case.

The movement was purchased in an incorrect silver case last November, and it needed a lot of TLC. Aside from the expertly done cosmetic restoration, the replacement balance staff that came in the movement had been poorly made, with nonconcentric pivots. My superlative watchmaker, John Wilson, made me a new staff and finished it to AWCo grade standards. When fully wound the watch now keeps time to within less than 5 seconds a day in all six positions.

An AT&Co Grade KW20 movement in the 80,000 SN range gave up its case for the cause. The net gold weight in the case is 46 DWT. The gold purity is not marked on this case, which is not uncommon on very early American gold cases. Acid tests on a streak indicate that it is at least 14K pure, and my watchmaker is convinced it is a strong 16K, if not even 17K.

I learned that there are numerous construction differences, several more than I had realized, between the First Run of Nashua numbered KW20s and the later AWCo Grade KW20s:

- Three out of the four First Run 19 jewel KW20 movements on which I have data, including SN 50,042, have flat hairsprings. Later AWCo Grade KW20s nearly all have Breguet overcoils.

- The jeweling configuration on First Run movements is different from that on the later 19 jewel runs, with no hole jewels on the center wheel, but endstones on the top side of the pallet bridge and escape wheel.

- First Run movements feature an unique winged escutcheon around the center pinion hole.

- The balance staff is rivetted to the balance wheel on First Run KW20 movements, and only on the First Run movements. In all the later runs, the staff is friction fit.

- First Run movements have a subsidiary plate (a.k.a., a "false plate") on the dial side, visible here in the last picture. These are not present on the later movements.

- The pillar screws, which were clearly made at Nashua, are unique to Nashua. They have hemispherical heads, thicker shanks, and a different thread pitch than later Waltham screws.

It has been fascinating to follow the evolution of this watch model from the First Run through to the final run, such as the example I showed in post #698 on this thread. The watches of the final run of KW20's have Breguet hairsprings, Fogg's cam regulator and safety pinion, gold train wheels, center hole jewels one of which is in a gold top plate setting, and curb pin adjusting screws. Some, like the example I show, also have glass enamel dials, large diameter balance wheels, and superfine pitched hairsprings.

MOVTIN~2.JPG MOVTIN~3.JPG MOVTIN~1.JPG DIALSI~1.JPG DIALSI~2.JPG CASEFR~1.JPG CASERE~1.JPG CEH&CO~1.JPG CUVETT~1.JPG Rim 1.JPG hinges.JPG Under dial close-up.jpg plates.JPG
 
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Old rookie

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The style of the Roman numerals appealed to me. I wonder about the ruby jewel in the gold color setting, does that indicate a jewel replacement or is that how some of the Howard series 5's were made?:confused:
 

Clint Geller

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The style of the Roman numerals appealed to me. I wonder about the ruby jewel in the gold color setting, does that indicate a jewel replacement or is that how some of the Howard series 5's were made?:confused:
"Howard Series 5's"? I'm not sure what you mean, OR.
 

Old rookie

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Clint, I was referring to the watch in my post #898 of this thread on page #18.
 

Old rookie

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Clint, I was referring to the Howard Series 5 in my post #898 on page #18 of this thread.
 

StanJS

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Big disappointment! I "bought the dial" on this Hampden watch. Spent nearly $75. When I opened it up, all I found was this boring SN 3265639 Model 3 circa 1914 18s 15J PS unadjusted common Dueber Watch Co. I'll throw it in my "sell if I ever get up the energy" pile. Better luck next time!

Dueber3265639Dial.jpg Dueber3265639Movement.jpg
 

Old rookie

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My latest is a Waltham Vanguard grade, model 1892, s/n 12080997, circa 1902, 18s, "punched" 23j, adjusted for temperature and 5 positions. It is overstamped with 23 and gold flashed. What prompted the overstamp? I have seen plausible explanations but nothing factual so far. wal1.jpg wal2.jpg wal3.jpg
 
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Old rookie

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Sorry Rick I don't know either. I am hoping some more experienced members can help.
BTW my father and grandfather were born in E. McKeesport.
 

Jerry Treiman

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What prompted the overstamp? I have seen plausible explanations but nothing factual so far.
only counting 21. Where are the other two jewels?
The Waltham serial number records indicate this is from a run of 21j Vanguards. This was about the time they were adding a jeweled mainwheels to their higher-grade models, so very likely this one was upgraded before it left the factory -- hence the drilled out "21" replaced with a plug marked "23"
 

Old rookie

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Jerry, my thanks also. I appreciate having the benefit of your experience. :)
 

Maximus Man

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Beautiful watch MM. I really like the look of Romans on an open face dial. Nice heavy looking 14k case. Is that a Roy case? I’ve been looking for an open face clean case for a while now with little success.

Did you have any trouble removing the stem on either of your watches when you recased? I just posted a question in the “repair“ section regarding this. I’m having a difficult time getting one of my 88‘s out of the case.
DT
I am not sure exactly why you think it is a re-case? I have not touched it. From what I can see it looks good. This is the way I bought it at the Nationals last week. The other marks on the case rim are not screw marks when you look at it closely.
Either way, my focus was on the movement. For what I sold my previous movement w/o a case I ended up with a complete gold watch for a few hundred dollars more. I am 100% happy that my friend gave me a great deal on it. Re-case or not.
... and yes I do not even try to put 88 movements in cases any more!
 

DTSPatrick

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DT
I am not sure exactly why you think it is a re-case? I have not touched it. From what I can see it looks good. This is the way I bought it at the Nationals last week. The other marks on the case rim are not screw marks when you look at it closely.
Either way, my focus was on the movement. For what I sold my previous movement w/o a case I ended up with a complete gold watch for a few hundred dollars more. I am 100% happy that my friend gave me a great deal on it. Re-case or not.
... and yes I do not even try to put 88 movements in cases any more!
Sorry MM for the confusion — not implying your case was a re-case. It’s a beautiful watch!
My re-case comment was based on a current issue I’m having with a case and seeing if you’ve had previous experience swapping cases since you were speaking of bare movements.
 
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rschussel

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While I have every 12 size Ariston grade known I finally acquired a 16 size Ariston-- 16 size 11j grade 601 Ariston .

The movement is in a run of 500. What I found interesting is that Illinois Watch Co Encyclopedia does not indicate that the any grade 601 or the production run was for Ariston.

I know very little about 16 size Illinois. Has anyone ever seen a 16 size 11j Ariston Jr?

16size Ariston Jr 11 jewels.jpg 16size Ariston Jr 11 jewels grade 601 #2,496,480 in a run of 500..jpg
 
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Maximus Man

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Sorry MM for the confusion — not implying your case was a re-case. It’s a beautiful watch!
My re-case comment was based on a current issue I’m having with a case and seeing if you’ve had previous experience swapping cases since you were speaking of bare movements.
DTS
No problem. I purchased the previous movement as a bare movement. There are some things I opt to let others do the work. 88s are one example.
 
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Old rookie

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It can use a little TLC so it's off to my watch guy.
 

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