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DTSPatrick

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Beautiful watch MM. I really like the look of Romans on an open face dial. Nice heavy looking 14k case. Is that a Roy case? I’ve been looking for an open face clean case for a while now with little success.

Did you have any trouble removing the stem on either of your watches when you recased? I just posted a question in the “repair“ section regarding this. I’m having a difficult time getting one of my 88‘s out of the case.
 

Steven Thornberry

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My latest after a long time is a 16S 21jewel William McKinley Grade by Hampden, made ca. 1913. Though not completely apparent from the picture of the movement, close inspection shows that it has been re-cased in a 10K GF Keystone J. Boss case. Still a nice looking watch. The word "patented" is shown at the bottom of the inscription, possibly an allusion to the following patent granted to James Boss in 1859: US23820. There could be other patents meant, however. The date added to the case, 4-6-10 (or 9-6-10) perhaps is the date the movement was re cased, April (Sept.) 6, 2010.

Dial.JPG Inside back.jpg Movement2.jpg
 

Clint Geller

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Clint Geller

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Here is my latest completed project: American Watch Company Grade 20 Size Keywind movement SN 50,042, with Nashua Watch Company assembly number 163, in an eagle-marked Charles E. Hale & Co. gold engine turned KW20 case.

The movement was purchased in an incorrect silver case last November, and it needed a lot of TLC. Aside from the expertly done cosmetic restoration, the replacement balance staff that came in the movement had been poorly made, with nonconcentric pivots. My superlative watchmaker, John Wilson, made me a new staff and finished it to AWCo grade standards. When fully wound the watch now keeps time to within less than 5 seconds a day in all six positions.

An AT&Co Grade KW20 movement in the 80,000 SN range gave up its case for the cause. The net gold weight in the case is 46 DWT. The gold purity is not marked on this case, which is not uncommon on very early American gold cases. Acid tests on a streak indicate that it is at least 14K pure, and my watchmaker is convinced it is a strong 16K, if not even 17K.

I learned that there are numerous construction differences, several more than I had realized, between the First Run of Nashua numbered KW20s and the later AWCo Grade KW20s:

- Three out of the four First Run 19 jewel KW20 movements on which I have data, including SN 50,042, have flat hairsprings. Later AWCo Grade KW20s nearly all have Breguet overcoils.

- The jeweling configuration on First Run movements is different from that on the later 19 jewel runs, with no hole jewels on the center wheel, but endstones on the top side of the pallet bridge and escape wheel.

- First Run movements feature an unique winged escutcheon around the center pinion hole.

- The balance staff is rivetted to the balance wheel on First Run KW20 movements, and only on the First Run movements. In all the later runs, the staff is friction fit.

- First Run movements have a subsidiary plate (a.k.a., a "false plate") on the dial side, visible here in the last picture. These are not present on the later movements.

- The pillar screws, which were clearly made at Nashua, are unique to Nashua. They have hemispherical heads, thicker shanks, and a different thread pitch than later Waltham screws.

It has been fascinating to follow the evolution of this watch model from the First Run through to the final run, such as the example I showed in post #698 on this thread. The watches of the final run of KW20's have Breguet hairsprings, Fogg's cam regulator and safety pinion, gold train wheels, center hole jewels one of which is in a gold top plate setting, and curb pin adjusting screws. Some, like the example I showed in post #698, also have glass enamel dials, large diameter balance wheels, and superfine pitched hairsprings.

MOVTIN~2.JPG MOVTIN~3.JPG MOVTIN~1.JPG DIALSI~1.JPG DIALSI~2.JPG CASEFR~1.JPG CASERE~1.JPG CEH&CO~1.JPG CUVETT~1.JPG Rim 1.JPG hinges.JPG Under dial close-up.jpg plates.JPG
 
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Old rookie

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The style of the Roman numerals appealed to me. I wonder about the ruby jewel in the gold color setting, does that indicate a jewel replacement or is that how some of the Howard series 5's were made?:confused:
 

Clint Geller

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The style of the Roman numerals appealed to me. I wonder about the ruby jewel in the gold color setting, does that indicate a jewel replacement or is that how some of the Howard series 5's were made?:confused:
"Howard Series 5's"? I'm not sure what you mean, OR.
 

Old rookie

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Clint, I was referring to the watch in my post #898 of this thread on page #18.
 

Old rookie

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Clint, I was referring to the Howard Series 5 in my post #898 on page #18 of this thread.
 

Old rookie

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My latest is a Waltham Vanguard grade, model 1892, s/n 12080997, circa 1902, 18s, "punched" 23j, adjusted for temperature and 5 positions. It is overstamped with 23 and gold flashed. What prompted the overstamp? I have seen plausible explanations but nothing factual so far. wal1.jpg wal2.jpg wal3.jpg
 
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Old rookie

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Sorry Rick I don't know either. I am hoping some more experienced members can help.
BTW my father and grandfather were born in E. McKeesport.
 

Jerry Treiman

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What prompted the overstamp? I have seen plausible explanations but nothing factual so far.
only counting 21. Where are the other two jewels?
The Waltham serial number records indicate this is from a run of 21j Vanguards. This was about the time they were adding a jeweled mainwheels to their higher-grade models, so very likely this one was upgraded before it left the factory -- hence the drilled out "21" replaced with a plug marked "23"
 

Old rookie

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Jerry, my thanks also. I appreciate having the benefit of your experience. :)
 

Maximus Man

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Beautiful watch MM. I really like the look of Romans on an open face dial. Nice heavy looking 14k case. Is that a Roy case? I’ve been looking for an open face clean case for a while now with little success.

Did you have any trouble removing the stem on either of your watches when you recased? I just posted a question in the “repair“ section regarding this. I’m having a difficult time getting one of my 88‘s out of the case.
DT
I am not sure exactly why you think it is a re-case? I have not touched it. From what I can see it looks good. This is the way I bought it at the Nationals last week. The other marks on the case rim are not screw marks when you look at it closely.
Either way, my focus was on the movement. For what I sold my previous movement w/o a case I ended up with a complete gold watch for a few hundred dollars more. I am 100% happy that my friend gave me a great deal on it. Re-case or not.
... and yes I do not even try to put 88 movements in cases any more!
 

DTSPatrick

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DT
I am not sure exactly why you think it is a re-case? I have not touched it. From what I can see it looks good. This is the way I bought it at the Nationals last week. The other marks on the case rim are not screw marks when you look at it closely.
Either way, my focus was on the movement. For what I sold my previous movement w/o a case I ended up with a complete gold watch for a few hundred dollars more. I am 100% happy that my friend gave me a great deal on it. Re-case or not.
... and yes I do not even try to put 88 movements in cases any more!
Sorry MM for the confusion — not implying your case was a re-case. It’s a beautiful watch!
My re-case comment was based on a current issue I’m having with a case and seeing if you’ve had previous experience swapping cases since you were speaking of bare movements.
 
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rschussel

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While I have every 12 size Ariston grade known I finally acquired a 16 size Ariston-- 16 size 11j grade 601 Ariston .

The movement is in a run of 500. What I found interesting is that Illinois Watch Co Encyclopedia does not indicate that the any grade 601 or the production run was for Ariston.

I know very little about 16 size Illinois. Has anyone ever seen a 16 size 11j Ariston Jr?

16size Ariston Jr 11 jewels.jpg 16size Ariston Jr 11 jewels grade 601 #2,496,480 in a run of 500..jpg
 
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Maximus Man

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Sorry MM for the confusion — not implying your case was a re-case. It’s a beautiful watch!
My re-case comment was based on a current issue I’m having with a case and seeing if you’ve had previous experience swapping cases since you were speaking of bare movements.
DTS
No problem. I purchased the previous movement as a bare movement. There are some things I opt to let others do the work. 88s are one example.
 

Ethan Lipsig

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I hadn't found anything to add to my collection for around six months until I purchased a pretty Elgin Grade 156 at a recent auction. This 16-size watch was made in around 1896. Grade 156/162 likely was Elgin's highest grade watch at the time.

ad.jpg

My new watch is in a solid 14k gold fancy Keystone hunter case, #5,341,271, with the engraving of a sail boat regatta below a lighthouse on a bluff. The watch has a fancy white enamel single-sunk dial with gold and silver foil accents, fancy gilt Louis XV style hands, slightly damaged. The movement is a PW/PS fully-capped 21j lever escapement with a decorative gold disk surrounding balance jewel setting. It has a, three finger bridge. It is a single roller movement, #6,995,259, adjusted to 5 or six positions. Elgin made 4,000 of this grade. About 25 were marked Lord Elgin in the 10,249,114-10,249,776 range.

I'll admit to being spoiled. This is my second solid gold Grade 156. I also have a solid gold Grade 162. Grade 156/162 are lovely watches.

DSC08035.JPG DSC08037.JPG DSC08039.JPG DSC08040.JPG DSC08041.JPG DSC08042.JPG DSC08045.JPG DSC08051.JPG DSC08052.JPG
 

4thdimension

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Ethan, The movement is great and the dial is great but that case is absolutely glorious! They even included shadows on the water from the boats! -Cort
 

Clint Geller

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Lee Passarella

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And feeling that what I really need is more watches, I decided to add probably all the Elgin Veritas models that I'll want. I think I can live without an 18s.
BTW, does anybody know how many 16s Veritas models with the wind indicator were made? I assume less than half the supposed 9.000 that were produced.

IMG_1382.JPG IMG_1383.JPG
 
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Greg Frauenhoff

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DTSPatrick

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I’m not usually a collector of military pocket watches… However, the G.C.T. (or AN5740-1) with hacking seconds has always been a favorite of mine. I haven’t seen too many examples of the Waltham variant (only ~5000 production compared to many more from Elgin and Hamilton)… and the few I have seen were not in good condition.
So, when this beauty found itself in my mailbox this afternoon I couldn’t help but smile.

5879C10B-3931-4C15-89D6-A75782449E85.jpeg
5529842B-36B7-4215-B769-2A9C14526F40.jpeg D246A12C-3DD9-4850-8718-4B207CBB830D.jpeg
 

Rick Hufnagel

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Hampden 16s model 5, Wm. McKinley. 17 jewels adjusted 3 Pos. Pendant set

20210817_190019~2.jpg 20210817_190103~2.jpg

A nice model 5 has been on the list for some time. This one is quite attractive and certainly meets the criteria I needed. I'm excited to get into it and see what's what.
 

Rick Hufnagel

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This is my first Hamilton (that I actually purchased) as part of the same criteria as the Hampden & others. This is lever set, however. #978

I think the lume is awesome and will look great properly fixed up. It's not for everyone I'm sure, but I like it. It's something different. Plus, these Philadelphia cases with the french bow are a favorite Sturdy and nice size. This is a 20 year. There's a bit of a worn mark on the back, but no brassing.

20210816_202736~2.jpg 20210816_202529~2.jpg
 

musicguy

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DTSPatrick

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I had the opportunity to make something beautiful even better today — in these tough times that isn’t always easy to do.

I acquired a new movement and was able to reunite it with an appropriate dial (and a gorgeous solid gold case :emoji_wink:).

3CE4AC03-06E1-438F-AE95-E40F77B72A32.jpeg D3D06C4A-05A6-4632-924C-EB413CE82D8E.jpeg

Reuniting the far more scarce Waltham Model 1891 0s Riverside Maximus with a proper dial (movement found with replacement dial) and upgraded from a GF re-case to a more age-appropriate and stunning 14k Courvoisier & Wilcox Manufacturing Company case.

94505893-63E2-4124-9FB5-0766087AC2AB.jpeg
94DD9CEF-FCCB-4F02-A518-57B50F0FC355.jpeg 37AE6023-C55A-431C-9ABC-6D442BD38D68.jpeg
7EF67CD2-7410-4A77-8D3A-B6DD6CC0CCB0.jpeg E3A76A25-1452-4FB9-B3F6-66A0A4B28026.jpeg

Purple and pink flowers may not mesh with my usual style — but, this particular case is so pristine and minty it makes me smile every time I see it. So, :emoji_rosette: and :emoji_rose: it is.

And finally, thanks to Jerry T. for his previous article on the 0s model 1891 variants — I was missing a dial screw and his old article helped me find a broken movement with the proper screw for replacement.
 

StanJS

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I did a little bottom fishing and caught something. I put in a low bid and wound up with this circa 1889 15J HC LS Model 1 Grade 103 S/N 3574323 G. M Wheeler for $31.50 (including S&H). They made 74,000 of these. It has some crud on the movement and inside the cover that looks like rust, but I'm not sure. I cleaned some of it off. I pulled the movement out of the case and it looks pretty clean. There may be some rust on the hairspring.

The one mystery is the previous owner. Apparently, someone scrawled their name inside the back cover. I can't make it out (Oscar H, Omar H).

ElginWheeler3574323Dial.jpg ElginWheeler3574323Face.jpg ElginWheeler3574323Movement.jpg ElginWheeler3574323Cover.jpg
 

musicguy

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The GM Wheeler grade was one of the first Elgins I bought. I would find a new
set of hands(second hand is fine) they should be very reasonably priced too. After a good cleaning
the dial and movement should look nice.


Rob
 

Paul Sullivan

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Here is an Elgin 16s 455 I came came across recently (movement complete no case) at a low price. When I went to remove the dial to clean it I found only one dial screw holding it to the plate. One was already stripped and fell out and the other had been driven in so deep the head slot was stripped and dial post split so wide as to lock it in. The dial wasn't in great shape, but I was hoping a cleaning might cover some of it's flaws, but after leveraging the dial out the the glass enamel was damaged and I replaced it with this SS dial.


455 BWR16s 20777391 movement (5).JPG BWR_455_20777391_dial_front_No _bezel.JPG


collage 3.jpg collage.jpg
 

Jerry Treiman

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Interest and desirability of consecutive serial numbers varies among collectors, and my own interest focuses on how it demonstrates consistency or variability in watch production. However, whereas most of the time we think about consecutive movement serial numbers my research on case makers makes consecutive cases of interest too. I just bought the watch on the right in this photo and previously found the one on the left. Both have 10-size Waltham Colonial-A movements cased by H.W. Matalene around 1921.
7203-04.jpg 7204_m2.jpg

The cases - numbers 7203 & 7204 - are essentially identical. Over the course of 100 years #7204 has had a bow replacement and both may have gotten new crowns, but otherwise they help demonstrate the short-term consistency of his production. Another observed example of the same case is numbered 7200 and I do not know how many others may have been made in this presumed production run. About a dozen cases earlier is another example in the same style, but for Waltham's 14-size Colonial-A.
 

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