Please Show the Most Recent Addition to Your Collection

[StanJS]

Regrettably, the Santa Fe Special is in a generic nickel case. I have yet to manage to unscrew the bezel. Also, there is a little gold smudge on the brass of the Liberty Bell case.

 

[johnbscott]

Recently received and just restored: New York Watch Co 5500, now 150 years old and going fine, keeping excellent time. Still testing but I think it will be within a couple of seconds a day. The coin silver case is beginning to get its pocket shine after a couple of days of use.

I had to case the movement as I received it loose - certainly "hard to case" as the saying goes.

Working on the movement, itself, impressed me greatly. Absolute simplicity but everything of high quality. Interestingly, the dial has three feet - two pinned and one screwed! The blue-headed dial foot screw can be seen next to the escape wheel. The centre pinion is hollow.

A wonderful New England watch that is a testimony to the high skills of those industrious men and women of long ago.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Lovely watch! Great job on the the overhaul and re-casing also.

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

Awesome, John Scott!

Since you had it apart, can you confirm the jewels?

Per a period description, it's 15 jewels and 18s...

 

[johnbscott]

Yes, Rick, 15J and 18s. From its current performance, it retains its original excellent adjustments - I saw no need to tamper with either the balance or the hairspring. The balance jewels needed careful setting for proper end shake, that's all. I found all of the jewels to be completely intact. The barrel has stop work and that is intact. The pallet assembly is poised and is extremely well made, with very large and impressive pallet jewels.

The orientation of the dial plate locating pin, for case engagement, and the position of the key winding square, differ from those of most other contemporary watches. Thus I was forced to drill a new engagement hole in the case, carefully positioned to get the movement correctly orientated in respect of the pendant. I also had to enlarge the bezel seat to admit the inner portion of the dial plate. I was able to select a case that had the correct depth and lower diameter for the back plate of the movement. I needed to unpin and remove the hinged bezel to get everything done, not to damage the crystal.

My only criticism of the movement is that there is no thumbnail post on the click, even though the click is exposed, to enable mainspring letdown. Later movements have that simple feature, of course. To let down the mainspring on 5500 it is necessary to carefully disassemble the key escutcheon.

I have collected some more of these to do and I look forward to that.

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

Thank you for the detailed description! Stop works as well, very nice.

I suppose this is one that is sized in lines instead of 18s? Some of the earlier ads show the size in lines, but my conversions are not coming out correctly so I don't quite know. My John L King fits an 18s case perfectly, but unfortunately the balance staff is broken, so it will be a future project. The locating pin is the same as yours, as is the click. Sorry just kind of thinking out loud (or typing out loud). Trying to learn about these 3/4 plate movements and your first hand experience is priceless, thank you very much!

Congrats!

 

[Fred Hansen]

Great buy Stan!

I’ve done a decent amount of study on the Illinois Washington Watch Co. production runs, and I believe there were 800 Liberty Bell Grade 69 HC made which fall in the following 17 runs ...

1704151-250
1737131-180
1749661-720
1859051-150
1859861-960
2024941-970
2032111-140
2082781-800
2131051-100
2151291-320
2202841-860
2424091-120
2486661-730
2779981-990
2799401-430
2940301-330
3040801-840

 

[StanJS]

Thanks for that information, Fred. They are not as uncommon as I thought. :-(

 

[Fred Hansen]

Thanks for that information, Fred. They are not as uncommon as I thought. :-(

Still not common though and over 15 times less plentiful than the open face version which I believe had 13370 made.

A challenging and fun pair to keep an eye for is the earlier 15 jewel 18 size Liberty Bell, with I believe 750 made of the open face and only a single run of 80 made of the hunting case.

 

[SpringDriven]

I very much enjoy model 1872 watches.




P.S. So hard to photograph...

 

[musicguy]

I very much enjoy model 1872 watches.

I can see why. Nice!


Rob

 

[watchbob]

Just a nice early chain.
Bob

 

[watchbob]

Don't think I'd shared this one before - not put back yet

 

[Steven Thornberry]

An 18s Seth Thomas Model 3, Grade 33 (7 jewel) in a Dueber Silverine case. The Model 3's were apparently made between 1888 and 1898 ( Model 3 | Seth Thomas Research ). I happened to find an 1890 catalogue illustration of an 18s Grade 33 in volume 2 of Tran Duy Ly's book on Seth Thomas Clocks and Watches (3rd ed., 2004).

 

[Mikekv]

Ive had this one for some years, its a Swiss "Fake" RR watch.

 

[Mikekv]

a few more of my Aurora, A English graduated silver chain, and a Silver Cross from Mexico. It is truly an international combination!

 

[Jerry Treiman]

Ive had this one for some years, its a Swiss "Fake" RR watch.

View attachment 639709

Actually, you might call it an American fake. I believe this was made by the New York Standard Watch Co. and was intended to deceive buyers into thinking they were getting an honest jeweled movement.

 

[Dbailey]

Here's a recent one of mine...A Hamilton Ball 999B in the first run/year of production with the 2B prefix...only 700 made and I'll bet not many look this good!

 

[Pat L.]

Here's a hunting case pocket watch that was acquired at a nearby online auction earlier this week. The movement wasn't shown in the auction pictures. I bought it because it had an interesting case and dial, and hoping that the movement might be worthwhile.

I found that the movement isn't marked with the maker's name, so after getting it home and comparing it with the EA pictures in the Ehrhardt "Beginning to End" book and then later with pictures in the Hernick & Arnold "Hampden Watch Co." book, it seems like it might be a Hampden model 2 movement. The movement serial number is 69591 and it's marked "Regulator". I haven't found another with this marking, so maybe it's a private label movement. The Henry Burgell serial number lookup table indicates that it could be a model 2 with 15 jewels, if it truly is a Hampden.

The dial is decorated with Masonic symbols. The name above the hand shaft is "T. J. Roberts & Co." but it's partially obscured by one of the symbols. Above the seconds bit it's marked "P. C. Cornwall" (first letter may not be a P).

The case was made by "Philadelphia Watch Case Co." and is marked "Silverode". Notice that the front cover is engraved "Chicago" with a large letter "M" preceding Chicago. Also, above and toward the right of "Chicago" is an unknown letter or symbol.

I guess I'd like confirmation that this really is a Hampden model 2 watch movement. and if not, what is it?
Does anyone have any insight as to what the engraving on the case means ("M Chicago" and the symbol above it)?
And does anyone know if “P. C. Cornwall” is a Masonic reference?
TJ Roberts & Co. may have been a jeweler. Does anyone recognize this name?

The movement does run and keeps good time. It was run for a couple of days, but the movement looks pretty dirty, so I let it run down and it can rest for now.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read through this. All comments are welcome.

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

Great movement!

Yes it's a Hampden model two. It's a Perry grade which is second in line to the Railway grade for the top spot. A wonderful movement. From what I can find, this is the lowest serial numbers for model two. You watch looks like the first run of normal production Perry model twos. I've only recorded one lower serial number, 70ish lower than yours.

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

To expand on this, the earliest Hampden model twos have a hollow center pinion, male winding arbor and a different setting lever. These appear at 75,000-75,999 for the nickel. These are general runs and may not be exact for start and finish.

Other than these, there is an odd early group of Railway and Perry model twos that look like normal production, with no hollow center pinion and a normal stem and lever. These seem to be 69,500-69,999 with Perry as the first half and Railway the later half. Again an estimate for the runs. This is where yours fits, and it's really neat to see thank you!

 

[Pat L.]

Rick,
Thanks for confirming that the watch is a Hampden. And thanks for the additional information about the early model 2's.

 

[PatH]

Great watch, Pat L. I've seen these ink colors and font style on dial embellishments from US World's Fairs around the turn of the century, but I've not been able to find details as to who added them, or what the cost was. Perhaps others can add more insight to help determine the history of your watch. This might be grasping at straws, but could the A M Chicago on the case be a reference to a masonic lodge in Chicago? Normally it's A. F. and A. M. - there is room for "AF &" before the A on the top line. Sure wish this watch could talk!

 

[Pat L.]

PatH,
Thanks for your comments about the watch. I hadn't thought of the upper right symbol as being a letter "A", but maybe it is. I just thought it was a symbol of some kind.

I looked for the name "T J Roberts" in a couple of Chicago city directories from that time period (before/after 1878), but found nothing, looking in the residential section, and in the business section under both jeweler and watchmaker.

There's a Masonic library that offers free information so I sent a message to them asking whether "P. C. Cornwall" has any Masonic meaning. If an actual human person replies, I'll ask them about the "A M Chicago" markings.

Thanks again, Pat L.

 

[4thdimension]

A. F.&A.M. would be Ancient Free & Accepted Mason and F.&A.M and A.M. would a portion of that term. I would assume the watch belonged to an Accepted Mason in Chicago.-Cort

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

T.M. Roberts Supply house was a company out of minneapolis minn that had a large mail order catalogue and dealt with many many types of goods.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

A couple of months ago I bought this Hamilton 932 18s OF watch, serial no. 23, at a Jones - Horan auction. After buying my first Hamilton 10 years ago when I first started collecting, I found Hamiltons to be very well made (most 17j and above) and finished. They also, for the most part, kept kept the most accurate time. That and the fact they sold to private jewelers in the early years, along with special damaskeenings, and "Unions", "Union Specials", Presidents and other variations, make them a starting collectors dream in finding a niche for something unusual among the common. Unfortunately most of that lies in the written Hamilton sales ledgers from #1 to 824700 beyond this the written ledgers are lost.

 

[Clint Geller]

A. F.&A.M. would be Ancient Free & Accepted Mason and F.&A.M and A.M. would a portion of that term. I would assume the watch belonged to an Accepted Mason in Chicago.-Cort

Quite a few early Howard keywind cases and some early Waltham keywind cases have turned up with the marking "F.M." incused in it. No one has ever been able to definitively identify the casemaker or retailer who used that mark. 4thD's post makes me wonder whether it is possible that a very proud freemason simply elected to mark his cases that way.

 

[Jim Haney]

A couple of months ago I bought this Hamilton 932 18s OF watch, serial no. 23, at a Jones - Horan auction. After buying my first Hamilton 10 years ago when I first started collecting, I found Hamiltons to be very well made (most 17j and above) and finished. They also, for the most part, kept kept the most accurate time. That and the fact they sold to private jewelers in the early years, along with special damaskeenings, and "Unions", "Union Specials", Presidents and other variations, make them a starting collectors dream in finding a niche for something unusual among the common. Unfortunately most of that lies in the written Hamilton sales ledgers from #1 to 824700 beyond this the written ledgers are lost.

View attachment 640904 View attachment 640905 View attachment 640906

Paul,
Congrats on this historical watch.Some History to go with it, I was going to buy this watch to go with my #22 for consecutive number set but I didn't want to spend what you paid for it.

This watch was in Bob Bennett's collection and he offered it to me for $5500 and I wouldn't meet his price because I bought #22 for 3K and also bought #30 for less than that, so old Bob finally got his price & more for it and I am so glad it went to someone who appreciated what it is..

 

[SpringDriven]

Here is my most recent arrival.

I picked it up for a few reasons.

1. The dial.
2. Am'n grade. I wanted to become familiar with this grade in the M88 line.
3. The serial number is low, sort of. I have a M72 Champion in the 4 mil range, so wanted to see this M88 in a similar range.

I would like to know more about the dial please. I managed to find a couple other Waltham dials that share the same fancy Arabic numerals. This is a printed dial, not hand painted. It does seem fairly fancy though, and I wonder if anyone recognizes it as a particular dial, or if it had a style name.



P.S. if the service of this watch is not a wreck, I will share photos of it. It is already a little odd because the balance is obviously non-magnetic, but the hairspring is blue...

P.P.S. I have something exciting coming to me later in the week. My hint is that it is L sized and cased.

 

[vintageguy]

My hint is that it is L sized and cased.

Original case?

 

[SpringDriven]

Original case?

I do not have it in my hands yet. However based on what I saw, I presume it is. It will be an open face case, yellow gold filled. (Solid gold is out of my reach.)

I also don't know the technical term other than it is a Crown B No. 2 grade Muhr case from Philadelphia. I have one other for an L size that is a rose gold filled hunting case and the age matches up, so I feel good that this is a proper L size case.

 

[Joe Blossic]

Last found in the mailbox ...
Circa 1891 Seth Thomas, Model 2, Grade Henry Molineux, 18S, 17J, HC, rare factory unsigned two foot fancy dial.
Dueber gold filled case with factory glass cuvette. Just back from restoration, the pictures, though excellent, do not capture the full beauty seen in hand.

From the excellent Seth Thomas Research site:
“The Model 2 was the company's first hunting watch, conceived in 1886 and produced the following year. It was a skeletonized 3/4-plate design with a graceful cantilever over the center wheel pivot that continued the use of the long pallet escapement, and were available in either gilt or nickel, or the rare flashed-gilt and two-tone plates. With the exception of a few key-wind examples, all the rest were lever-set and were available in jewel counts of 7 in gilt all the way up to 20 for the rarest Model 2 of all - the Henry Molineux.”

“Henry Molineux was born in New Hampshire around 1832, managing the Pacific Coast Department of the Seth Thomas Clock Company for 30 years until 1883 as an agent, stockholder and employer. He was a personal friend of Seth Thomas Jr and served the public trust for many years in California as county treasurer, clerk, and recorder of Sierra County. In 1881 he was elected supervisor of the 5th ward, and was also president of four San Francisco Banks during his time in the west. He died in Boston in March of 1900. The company created a grade in his honor, which was the second-highest named grade that Seth Thomas produced, offered in the Model 2 in three jewel counts.”

“Roughly 380 of the Model 2 Henry Molineux were produced in four separate runs. All were lever-set and were offered in several patterns with different signatures. The final block contained both nickel and two-tone finishes. All known adverts list the Molineux grade as Adjusted with no mention of any positions.”

 

[Jerry Treiman]

Here is my most recent arrival.

I picked it up for a few reasons.

1. The dial.
2. Am'n grade. I wanted to become familiar with this grade in the M88 line.
3. The serial number is low, sort of. I have a M72 Champion in the 4 mil range, so wanted to see this M88 in a similar range.

I would like to know more about the dial please.

It is already a little odd because the balance is obviously non-magnetic, but the hairspring is blue...

This is a lovely movement and dial. I have #4,145,086 -- just ten earlier. It also has an atypical dial, but not quite as fancy as yours. A bigger difference is that mine is marked "NON-MAGNETIC". It has a non-magnetic balance, hairspring and pallet fork. The ledger singles out numbers -081 to -090 as being non-magnetic, so yours may not have all of the NM elements.

 

[luvsthetick]

Like Joe's beautiful Henry Molineux, this is a recent addition to my Seth Thomas collection. I wanted it because it is approximately 60 serial numbers earlier than my previously lowest serial number model 5.

In addition I had a scarce colorful fancy dial that I needed a movement to put it on. (The original Seth dial decorated with edge chips and hairlines will be kept.)

Because of poor listing pictures I did not realize the case only had Seth Thomas screw marks which increases the possibility of an original case/movement combo.

After a COA I am happy to report this model 5 is in good health and keeping accurate time.

 

[SpringDriven]

This is a lovely movement and dial. I have #4,145,086 -- just ten earlier. It also has an atypical dial, but not quite as fancy as yours. A bigger difference is that mine is marked "NON-MAGNETIC". It has a non-magnetic balance, hairspring and pallet fork. The ledger singles out numbers -081 to -090 as being non-magnetic, so yours may not have all of the NM elements.
View attachment 641155 View attachment 641152 View attachment 641154 View attachment 641153

I did a quick teardown to see if there was anything horrible going on. I can share those details in a separate post.

But I will say that the blue hairspring is correct because my pallet fork is steel and so is my roller table and safety. So not a case of a replaced hairspring.

I find it interesting that your watch is so similar to the one I just posted. Yours has a fancy Arabic dial and my case is similar to yours in style as well, just in coin silver.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Rodney Leon]

Just got and cleaned this Illinois A Lincoln, 21 jewel Getty model. Serial number 2422527, Model 5, Adjusted 5 positions, Wadsworth warranted 20 year case, No. 1800658, Train engraved on Back cover. I believe it is in its original Getty case as well

 

[SpringDriven]

Last found in the mailbox ...
Circa 1891 Seth Thomas, Model 2, Grade Henry Molineux, 18S, 17J, HC, rare factory unsigned two foot fancy dial.
Dueber gold filled case with factory glass cuvette. Just back from restoration, the pictures, though excellent, do not capture the full beauty seen in hand.

From the excellent Seth Thomas Research site:
“The Model 2 was the company's first hunting watch, conceived in 1886 and produced the following year. It was a skeletonized 3/4-plate design with a graceful cantilever over the center wheel pivot that continued the use of the long pallet escapement, and were available in either gilt or nickel, or the rare flashed-gilt and two-tone plates. With the exception of a few key-wind examples, all the rest were lever-set and were available in jewel counts of 7 in gilt all the way up to 20 for the rarest Model 2 of all - the Henry Molineux.”

“Henry Molineux was born in New Hampshire around 1832, managing the Pacific Coast Department of the Seth Thomas Clock Company for 30 years until 1883 as an agent, stockholder and employer. He was a personal friend of Seth Thomas Jr and served the public trust for many years in California as county treasurer, clerk, and recorder of Sierra County. In 1881 he was elected supervisor of the 5th ward, and was also president of four San Francisco Banks during his time in the west. He died in Boston in March of 1900. The company created a grade in his honor, which was the second-highest named grade that Seth Thomas produced, offered in the Model 2 in three jewel counts.”

“Roughly 380 of the Model 2 Henry Molineux were produced in four separate runs. All were lever-set and were offered in several patterns with different signatures. The final block contained both nickel and two-tone finishes. All known adverts list the Molineux grade as Adjusted with no mention of any positions.”
View attachment 641124 View attachment 641125 View attachment 641126 View attachment 641127 View attachment 641123

That is a fairly intense watch!

 

[Joe Blossic]

I had a scarce colorful fancy dial

Great dial!

 

[DTSPatrick]

Dangerous purchase inbound... don’t tell my wife.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Paul,
Congrats on this historical watch.Some History to go with it, I was going to buy this watch to go with my #22 for consecutive number set but I didn't want to spend what you paid for it.

This watch was in Bob Bennett's collection and he offered it to me for $5500 and I wouldn't meet his price because I bought #22 for 3K and also bought #30 for less than that, so old Bob finally got his price & more for it and I am so glad it went to someone who appreciated what it is..

Jim,

I read your entry in the Hamilton Thread section of their first 2000 watches that you had #22 and then looking at your bidding "handle" I figured it was you, so I knew I was in trouble! Still I decided to cross the Rubicon (get off the pot so to speak) and make the purchase, and doubt I will ever enter two digit serial number territory ever again!

 

[musicguy]

and doubt I will ever enter two digit serial number territory ever again!

I had a 3 digit one in my hands for about 48 hours maybe I should have kept hold of it
but these low serial Hamilton's are really prized among Hamilton collectors.
Yours is a real beauty!


Rob

 

[rrwatch]

An 18s Seth Thomas Model 3, Grade 33 (7 jewel) in a Dueber Silverine case. The Model 3's were apparently made between 1888 and 1898 ( Model 3 | Seth Thomas Research ). I happened to find an 1890 catalogue illustration of an 18s Grade 33 in volume 2 of Tran Duy Ly's book on Seth Thomas Clocks and Watches (3rd ed., 2004).

View attachment 639618 View attachment 639621 View attachment 639620 View attachment 639619

Steve,
Is your 7 jewel Seth Thomas lever or pendant set? The catalog description says stem set, but most all of the Model 3, grade 33, 7 jewel movements in the database that Kent & I maintain are lever set, except for a few KW/KS.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Steve,
Is your 7 jewel Seth Thomas lever or pendant set? The catalog description says stem set, but most all of the Model 3, grade 33, 7 jewel movements in the database that Kent & I maintain are lever set, except for a few KW/KS.

Ed, my watch is lever set. That discrepancy between the catalogue description and my watch didn't even catch my attention. Thanks!

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

Hampden Studley # 107788
Model 2, 11 jewels in pairs.

Not exactly a recent addition, but recently brought back to life from the busted pile.

These are a pretty neat early Hampden grade that has a lower production, so it was a thrill to be able to get it up and running and cleaned as best I could.

Interestingly, my hollow center pinion Theo E Studley is 16,200bph and this is 18,000.


Just a Hampden nerd piece that I had to have. Have a good day!

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Purchased back in February this nice Hamilton 960 ser. no. 754079, made in 1909. The bow on the case is a little cocked but overall the case shows little wear and bezel and case back thread on smoothly. The DS dial signature is in a font I've not seen before and there is a a large chip in the dials outer edge at the lever access; the bane of lever set watches. Still, after cleaning the dial and the bezel in place it's hard to see. I only have two other Hami bridge watches, a 952 and 961.

 

[Superplus]

My first pocket watch in collection, just regular Elgin with marvellous case. I know its female but it had me from the begining!

 

[Clint Geller]

Here is a recent addition to my collection, which my watchmaker just got done with. The movement was purchased at my favorite auction house, Jones & Horan, last December in an incorrect (but properly described) silver recase. An AT&Co Grade KW20 movement gave up its worn but correct 18K AWCo case for this 19 jewel American Watch Co. Grade movement.

American Grade KW20 movements were made in six runs. The last two runs are equipped with internal stopworks, Fogg's cam ("tadpole") regulators, and Fogg's safety pinions. All the earlier runs had exposed stopworks, either simple or Fogg's vibrating stud regulators, and Stratton's patent mainspring barrels. This late example, SN 250,456, is out of the final run of seventy AWCo Grade movements, which was roughly contemporaneous with the first run of AWCo Grade Model 1872's. Like the first run of AWCo Grade Model 1872's, movement SN 250,456 has a curb pin adjusting screw situated at the edge of the balance cock. The final run of AWCo Grade KW20's is the only run of KW20's with this feature. Other noteworthy features of movement SN 250,456 include:

- A gold train (This fact wasn't apparent either to me or to J&H when I bought the watch, on account of the tarnish on the low purity gold alloy wheels. Yes, low purity gold does tarnish! There is no trace of gilding on these wheels, nor any trace of the textured surface that would have underlain gilding, had it been present previously. The color of Waltham's gold alloy wheels varied in this period. Not all were reddish. The last image I posted shows the center and escape wheels each with their adjacent sides cleaned and their away-facing sides before cleaning. I suppose we would need an X-ray analysis to be certain of the wheel composition, but I am satisfied that they are some alloy of gold. The pictures I posted don't show this clearly, but the newly cleaned train wheels on this movement are as bright and specular as any gold watch wheels I have ever seen.)
- A perfect glass enamel 20 Size dial (rare!)
- A large diameter balance wheel (KW20 movements were made with two different balance wheel sizes. Only some later AWCo Grade examples have the larger diameter balance wheels.)
- A superfine pitched Breguet hairspring (This feature turns up sporadically on late AWCo Grade KW20's and KW16's, and on nickel Model 1868's. Most collectors are unaware of this scarce variation, which my excellent watchmaker brought to my attention.)
- A raised gold center wheel jewel setting.

The watch keeps great time with a lively balance motion.

 

[johnbscott]

Clint, congratulations are due to you, and your watchmaker, on such a fine and worthwhile watch restoration.

I happen to have movement No. 250702, from the next run (and waiting in line for restoration). My movement is marked Appleton Tracy & Co and it is 16s but its layout is much the same as that of your 250456. Even though my movement is hight grade, a comparison the two movements is very interesting, as one observes the "extras" embodied in your first grade movement.

 

[DTSPatrick]

Not exactly a new watch for me... but found a new pair of shoes — my 10s Maximus A has a been reunited with a case.