• Important Executive Director Announcement from the NAWCC

    The NAWCC Board of Directors is pleased to announce that Mr. Rory McEvoy has been named Executive Director of the NAWCC. Rory is an internationally renowned horological scholar and comes to the NAWCC with strong credentials that solidly align with our education, fundraising, and membership growth objectives. He has a postgraduate degree in the conservation and restoration of antique clocks from West Dean College, and throughout his career, he has had the opportunity to handle some of the world’s most important horological artifacts, including longitude timekeepers by Harrison, Kendall, and Mudge.

    Rory formerly worked as Curator of Horology at the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, where his role included day-to-day management of research and digitization projects, writing, public speaking, conservation, convening conferences, exhibition work, and development of acquisition/disposal and collection care policies. In addition, he has worked as a horological specialist at Bonhams in London, where he cataloged and handled many rare timepieces and built important relationships with collectors, buyers, and sellers. Most recently, Rory has used his talents to share his love of horology at the university level by teaching horological theory, history, and the practical repair and making of clocks and watches at Birmingham City University.

    Rory is a British citizen and currently resides in the UK. Pre-COVID-19, Rory and his wife, Kaai, visited HQ in Columbia, Pennsylvania, where they met with staff, spent time in the Museum and Library & Research Center, and toured the area. Rory and Kaai will be relocating to the area as soon as the immigration challenges and travel restrictions due to COVID-19 permit.

    Some of you may already be familiar with Rory as he is also a well-known author and lecturer. His recent publications include the book Harrison Decoded: Towards a Perfect Pendulum Clock, which he edited with Jonathan Betts, and the article “George Graham and the Orrery” in the journal Nuncius.

    Until Rory’s relocation to the United States is complete, he will be working closely with an on-boarding team assembled by the NAWCC Board of Directors to introduce him to the opportunities and challenges before us and to ensure a smooth transition. Rory will be participating in strategic and financial planning immediately, which will allow him to hit the ground running when he arrives in Columbia

    You can read more about Rory McEvoy and this exciting announcement in the upcoming March/April issue of the Watch & Clock Bulletin.

    Please join the entire Board and staff in welcoming Rory to the NAWCC community.

Please Show the Most Recent Addition to Your Collection

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Checked my mailbox today and I got another Waltham '92! I almost passed on this one because there's really nothing special about it. Until I noticed the word "PREMIER" over the ratchet wheel. I am not astute enough to know why a 17j AT&Co has the word Premier on the lowest jeweled '92 that Waltham produced, but I'm hoping some of you are. This in in fact the only '92 that I've seen this inscription, but that's not saying anything as I'm still a neophyte here. Have any of you seen this? Do any of you have similar examples? What makes it a Premier?

Thanks,

Kenny

Edit: Upon searching the database, I see several "Premier" examples shown. Still, what makes it a Premier?

View attachment 623887 View attachment 623888 View attachment 623889
Kenny, is there perhaps an adjustment knob on your mailbox that you could turn from "1892" to "1872?" Alas, my mailbox is broken. It just gives me bills and crap. My house does have a magic laundry chute, though. I throw dirty clothes down the chute and a couple days or so later it appears back up in the room clean again. My wife claims she knows the secret, but I am skeptical.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PatH and Kenny S.

Kenny S.

NAWCC Member
Apr 12, 2020
192
279
63
56
Not far from South Park CO
Country
Region
Kenny, is there perhaps an adjustment knob on your mailbox that you could turn from "1892" to "1872?" Alas, my mailbox is broken. It just gives me bills and crap. My house does have a magic laundry chute, though. I throw dirty clothes down the chute and a couple days or so later it appears back up in the room clean again. My wife claims she knows the secret, but I am skeptical.
We need to get you a new mailbox Clint! I too love the '72. I think I have close to a dozen of them now but only one is cased, hence the problem that's been discussed at length here. I in fact own the 75th unit ever made.( If I'm reading the ledgers correctly) S/N 600075. A scarce button set version of the '72 It's in rough shape and needs a lot of help but still, a cool piece.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clint Geller

StanJS

Registered User
Sep 20, 2006
798
246
43
North Andover, MA USA
Country
Region
Speaking of mailboxes with stuff from Waltham (different company though) in them, here is what showed up today.

Since it is November 2020, I decided to (s)elect a new President (a couple of weeks late) S/N 150,559. It came with a chain and knife as a bonus. The case has a (weak) engraving of a train (another thread) on it. In my continuing ability to buy totally buggered cases, the bezel is stripped and will turn forever and never come off unless you coax it.

ThePresidentOFBack.jpg ThePresidentOFMovement.jpg ThePresidentOFDial.jpg ThePresidentOFFace.jpg ThePresident+Chain.jpg
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
6,583
2,348
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
I just got this 14-size Waltham from England and it only took five days from sale to my mailbox in Los Angeles! It is, as most of these are, a 7-jewel Bond St. movement. However, it is an 1895 model which do not show up quite as often, and has a nice quality single-sunk enamel dial. The plain polished case is a Dennison 20-year gold-filled case.
8282940f.jpg 8282940m.jpg

I have to admit that I bought it for the case and dial to restore an 1895 Riverside movement that I have had for a while. The 1895 Riverside is a little harder to find, with only 500 hunters and 500 open-face movements made. My movement did not have a correct dial on it, so this blank dial is a welcome find as well as the case. Out of only seven other Riverside examples that I have seen, five have dials marked A.W.W.Co./Waltham, Mass. and two have blank dials.
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Well, I guess at least my virtual mailbox is working again. My watchmaker just sent me these pictures of my watch. The case has 51 DWT net of 18K gold, and the dial is glass enamel. After John trued the balance, the watch keeps time to within +/- 15 seconds in all six positions with a brisk balance motion. He is checking the isochronism now, but with an authentic 130 year old AWWCo Model 1872 mainspring right out of the factory package in the watch, he doesn't really want to wind it all the way up. I'm guessing there may be ten or so movements known with original Woerd's patent balances, all but one or two of which are out of the run at 999,901 to 999,999. Most known examples from this run do not have the sawtooth balance, though all seem to have the balance patent marking. Some examples from this run have the escapement design that Woerd later patented and used at US Waltham, with unequal lift, a counterpoise off the entrance pallet, and a square roller jewel, but SN 999,960 has a standard AWCo Grade escapement. Movement SN 999,966, six numbers from this movement, also has the sawtooth balance, and is in a case carrying the same balance patent marking as engraved on the movement. The underside of the balance wheel of movement SN 999,960 is very lightly scribed "60" on the spar. This balance has timing nuts, rather than the more common timing screws, a quality feature seen on many fine pocket chronometer balances. The spiral lightning pattern winding wheels are seen on several examples from this run of AWCo Grade Model 1872 movements. This early run, the third, of AWCo grade Model 1872 movements features a gold dome on the balance cock and a mainspring let-down screw seen adjacent to the cock. All movements out of this run have 21 jewels and are lever set. The first run and part of the second run have 18 jewels and are button, or nail set.

DSCN1513 (1).JPG DSCN1514 (1).JPG DSCN1521 (1).JPG DSCN1518 (1).JPG DSCN1526 (1).JPG DSCN1529.JPG DSCN1533.JPG DSCN1408.JPG DSCN1439.JPG DSCN1440.JPG DSCN1532.JPG DSCN1517 (1).JPG
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Well, I guess at least my virtual mailbox is working again. My watchmaker just sent me these pictures of my watch. The case has 51 DWT net of 18K gold, and the dial is glass enamel. After John trued the balance, the watch keeps time to within +/- 15 seconds in all six positions with a brisk balance motion. He is checking the isochronism now, but with an authentic 130 year old AWWCo Model 1872 mainspring right out of the factory package in the watch, he doesn't really want to wind it all the way up. I'm guessing there may be ten or so movements known with original Woerd's patent balances, all but one or two of which are out of the run at 999,901 to 999,999. Most known examples from this run do not have the sawtooth balance, though all seem to have the balance patent marking. Some examples from this run have the escapement design that Woerd later patented and used at US Waltham, with unequal lift, a counterpoise off the entrance pallet, and a square roller jewel, but SN 999,960 has a standard AWCo Grade escapement. Movement SN 999,966, six numbers from this movement, also has the sawtooth balance, and is in a case carrying the same balance patent marking as engraved on the movement. The underside of the balance wheel of movement SN 999,960 is very lightly scribed "60" on the spar. This balance has timing nuts, rather than the more common timing screws, a quality feature seen on many fine pocket chronometer balances. The spiral lightning pattern winding wheels are seen on several examples from this run of AWCo Grade Model 1872 movements. This early run, the third, of AWCo grade Model 1872 movements features a gold dome on the balance cock and a mainspring let-down screw seen adjacent to the cock. All movements out of this run have 21 jewels and are lever set. The first run and part of the second run have 18 jewels and are button, or nail set.

View attachment 624933 View attachment 624934 View attachment 624935 View attachment 624936 View attachment 624937 View attachment 624938 View attachment 624939 View attachment 624940 View attachment 624941 View attachment 624942 View attachment 624948 View attachment 624949
My watchmaker reports that Woerd's sawtooth balance has lived down to its deserved reputation for isochronal error. At a balance arc of 180 degrees it gains 10 seconds per day, and at 260 degrees it loses 17 seconds per day. This likely results, as others have written, due to the large centrifugual forces resulting from the heavy balance screws at the free ends of both arms. Of course, if John had a bin full of Waltham Breguet hairsprings to use in case one or more got ruined, he is confident he could significantly reduce that error. But under the circumstances, discretion is the better part of valor, especially since I will not be winding the watch all the way with a 130 year old mainspring in it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kenny S.

James J Nicholson

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jul 19, 2019
224
196
43
62
Canadensis PA
Country
Region
Well, I guess at least my virtual mailbox is working again. My watchmaker just sent me these pictures of my watch. The case has 51 DWT net of 18K gold, and the dial is glass enamel. After John trued the balance, the watch keeps time to within +/- 15 seconds in all six positions with a brisk balance motion. He is checking the isochronism now, but with an authentic 130 year old AWWCo Model 1872 mainspring right out of the factory package in the watch, he doesn't really want to wind it all the way up. I'm guessing there may be ten or so movements known with original Woerd's patent balances, all but one or two of which are out of the run at 999,901 to 999,999. Most known examples from this run do not have the sawtooth balance, though all seem to have the balance patent marking. Some examples from this run have the escapement design that Woerd later patented and used at US Waltham, with unequal lift, a counterpoise off the entrance pallet, and a square roller jewel, but SN 999,960 has a standard AWCo Grade escapement. Movement SN 999,966, six numbers from this movement, also has the sawtooth balance, and is in a case carrying the same balance patent marking as engraved on the movement. The underside of the balance wheel of movement SN 999,960 is very lightly scribed "60" on the spar. This balance has timing nuts, rather than the more common timing screws, a quality feature seen on many fine pocket chronometer balances. The spiral lightning pattern winding wheels are seen on several examples from this run of AWCo Grade Model 1872 movements. This early run, the third, of AWCo grade Model 1872 movements features a gold dome on the balance cock and a mainspring let-down screw seen adjacent to the cock. All movements out of this run have 21 jewels and are lever set. The first run and part of the second run have 18 jewels and are button, or nail set.

View attachment 624933 View attachment 624934 View attachment 624935 View attachment 624936 View attachment 624937 View attachment 624938 View attachment 624939 View attachment 624940 View attachment 624941 View attachment 624942 View attachment 624948 View attachment 624949
What a magnificent looking watch!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clint Geller

yellow_sub

NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2019
88
170
33
34
NorCal
Country
Region
I've gotten a couple others since this one was acquired but I hadn't taken pictures of it yet. It's a P.S. Bartlett Model 1894 made in 1924. Original velvet box, with chain and pocket knife. The watch was purchased from Santa Fe Watch Co. in Topeka, Kansas. There's an amazing thread here with a ton of information about the jeweler. https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/santa-fe-watch-co.49760/
A couple of additions I was able to find was this article about a remodel of the the store that had just take place. (In 1922)
11-5-22.jpg
The company president, Alonzo S. Thomas was born in 1877 and lived until 1969. This would be him and his wife sometime during the 1960's.
alonzo.jpg
And here's the watch itself, finally. It looks to have been used very lightly.
DSC00916.JPG
DSC00918.JPG
24670459-2.jpg
DSC00920.JPG
24670459.jpg
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
  • Like
Reactions: DTSPatrick

60MinuteMan

NAWCC Member
Sep 16, 2020
55
92
18
Country
Here I go (over)spending christmas money on another watch.
I went back and forth on this one, and by the time I figured out a little research puzzle on it, even with a few condition issues, I was already intrigued...

I'm sure this is old hat to some of you, but here is what threw me about this particular piece.
When you goog...um 'search' for J Watson Waltham watches, you find references to "J Watson" watches.... easy.
The primary example I think is this page: Origins of the Waltham Model 57 - evolution
where the "J. Watson" is noted and shown, marked "London" in the example.

But then I come across the "J. W. Watson" - marked Boston, and was perplexed- is it a fake, what the heck is J W?
So I started my search and find just vague references to "J W" Watsons for the most part.
But then clear as day, there it is in the Waltham Hand Ledger for 1861. (see pic)

Now I am curious on the variants on J vs. JW Watsons and between the London and Boston production runs.
Was J Watson London possibly first run ? Is there a stronger distinction between the J and the JW ?

Anyway, it was the story, the documented history in the ledger, and the confusion that drew me to it.

So from 1861, with a relocated case screw hole, some scratches to the movement, and rather poor gilding, but running...here is JW (Jay W'ya)
In a simple Keystone recase, but I'm looking to dress this watch up a bit still.

1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 1860_Waltham_LedgerInfo.JPG
 
Last edited:

Fred Hansen

NAWCC Member
Aug 18, 2002
5,412
476
83
Country
Very interesting find!

I don't think I've seen an example with the additional "W" in the signature. I just browsed photos of 8 examples (two London and six Boston) and all have the shorter J. Watson signature, including one at relatively near serial #28635.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 60MinuteMan

Paul Regan

NAWCC Member
Mar 4, 2003
726
92
28
Florida
Country
Region
Well, I guess at least my virtual mailbox is working again. My watchmaker just sent me these pictures of my watch. The case has 51 DWT net of 18K gold, and the dial is glass enamel. After John trued the balance, the watch keeps time to within +/- 15 seconds in all six positions with a brisk balance motion. He is checking the isochronism now, but with an authentic 130 year old AWWCo Model 1872 mainspring right out of the factory package in the watch, he doesn't really want to wind it all the way up. I'm guessing there may be ten or so movements known with original Woerd's patent balances, all but one or two of which are out of the run at 999,901 to 999,999. Most known examples from this run do not have the sawtooth balance, though all seem to have the balance patent marking. Some examples from this run have the escapement design that Woerd later patented and used at US Waltham, with unequal lift, a counterpoise off the entrance pallet, and a square roller jewel, but SN 999,960 has a standard AWCo Grade escapement. Movement SN 999,966, six numbers from this movement, also has the sawtooth balance, and is in a case carrying the same balance patent marking as engraved on the movement. The underside of the balance wheel of movement SN 999,960 is very lightly scribed "60" on the spar. This balance has timing nuts, rather than the more common timing screws, a quality feature seen on many fine pocket chronometer balances. The spiral lightning pattern winding wheels are seen on several examples from this run of AWCo Grade Model 1872 movements. This early run, the third, of AWCo grade Model 1872 movements features a gold dome on the balance cock and a mainspring let-down screw seen adjacent to the cock. All movements out of this run have 21 jewels and are lever set. The first run and part of the second run have 18 jewels and are button, or nail set.

View attachment 624933 View attachment 624934 View attachment 624935 View attachment 624936 View attachment 624937 View attachment 624938 View attachment 624939 View attachment 624940 View attachment 624941 View attachment 624942 View attachment 624948 View attachment 624949
Very nice watch Clint. It is worth noting that it has the proper dial in script with arrows pointing in at the 5 min markers. This dial is confused with a later script dial seen on early ‘88 without the arrows in on the 5 min markers. Only American grades carried the arrows in at the 5 min. They can be seen on the “Hull Dial” also.
paul
 

60MinuteMan

NAWCC Member
Sep 16, 2020
55
92
18
Country
Yea Fred, something is interesting here, just not sure what exactly yet.
Of the SN's I've plucked out so far, they are all listed as "J W" Watson in the pocketwatchdatabase, but most of the pictures found show signatures of just J Watson. If it wasn't for the hand ledger I'd be more skeptical, but it seems pretty clear - and if taken to word, it appears there are more J W's out there.

Just now came across this too,which lists out Watson's, along with this particular SN (28601) with J W

This may be an obscure identification, which is why I like it, but back to the original post - that was todays new addition !

Randy
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Very nice watch Clint. It is worth noting that it has the proper dial in script with arrows pointing in at the 5 min markers. This dial is confused with a later script dial seen on early ‘88 without the arrows in on the 5 min markers. Only American grades carried the arrows in at the 5 min. They can be seen on the “Hull Dial” also.
paul
The dial is also mirror flat glass enamel. I believe the glass enamel dials on AWCo Grade Model 1888 movements were all signed "A.W.W.Co." in Gothic letters. There are some glass enamel dials seen on some later Riverside Grade movements, but they have less specular, severely flat surface and the calligraphy isn't as clean and well done. The kind of 3-line signature glass enamel dial on movement SN 999,960 was used on the first two runs of AWCo Grade Model 1872's and most, if not all of the third run atr 999,960. However, given how long it took the company to complete the third run of AWCo Grade Model 1872 movements, it is likely that the later AWCo Grade glass enamel dials could be original for some examples from this run as well.
 

Paul Regan

NAWCC Member
Mar 4, 2003
726
92
28
Florida
Country
Region
The dial is also mirror flat glass enamel. I believe the glass enamel dials on AWCo Grade Model 1888 movements were all signed "A.W.W.Co." in Gothic letters. There are some glass enamel dials seen on some later Riverside Grade movements, but they have less specular, severely flat surface and the calligraphy isn't as clean and well done. The kind of 3-line signature glass enamel dial on movement SN 999,960 was used on the first two runs of AWCo Grade Model 1872's and most, if not all of the third run atr 999,960. However, given how long it took the company to complete the third run of AWCo Grade Model 1872 movements, it is likely that the later AWCo Grade glass enamel dials could be original for some examples from this run as well.
Clint, pictured here is the '88 dial I was referring to that some confuse as the same as those on first run AWC Grade '72s. The dial pictured here was actually on one of my first run AWC '72s. The watch is an employee watch owned by Joseph Bates who was the chief Adjuster at the time of the Philadelphia Expo of '76. It is one digit off of the best scoring watch at the Expo. As an employee watch, it had many upgrades.
Paul

DSCN1149.JPG
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Sullivan

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Clint, pictured here is the '88 dial I was referring to that some confuse as the same as those on first run AWC Grade '72s. The dial pictured here was actually on one of my first run AWC '72s. The watch is an employee watch owned by Joseph Bates who was the chief Adjuster at the time of the Philadelphia Expo of '76. It is one digit off of the best scoring watch at the Expo. As an employee watch, it had many upgrades.
Paul

View attachment 626102
Hi Paul,

Three-line AWCo Grade dials do occasionally turn up on later watches. Here is a 3-line glass enamel dial I purchased on an AWCo Grade Model 1888 out of Australia quite recently. (It is different than, though stylistically identical to the dial on the Model 1872 I previously showed on this thread.) I see a clear difference in quality between the signatures on this dial and the one you just showed. The writing is finer and the alignment of the writing is more precise on the dial below, making it easier to read. I would suspect that the surface finish may differ as well. So I don't think that inward pointing arrows at the quarters of the minute track are unique to AWCo Grade dials.

watch front.jpg
 
Last edited:

Paul Regan

NAWCC Member
Mar 4, 2003
726
92
28
Florida
Country
Region
I give up, sorry I brought the subject up. I suspect your ‘88 has been the lucky recipient of an upgraded dial.
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
I give up, sorry I brought the subject up. I suspect your ‘88 has been the lucky recipient of an upgraded dial.
That is very possible, Paul. My particular 1888 movement is not the only AWCo Grade Model 1888 movement that has been found with a three-line glass enamel dial. It is entirely possible that Waltham at some point decided to move some of its old left over inventory of discontinued styles out the door.
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,330
1,881
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
Nice, DTSPatrick. American Watch Co. Grade 12-size bridge model, correct? I have three, two with "Hull" dials like the one you posted. The third was exported to England and has an English-style dial. Here are my two Hull-dialed versions.

18k A&B Case
DSC01662.JPG

14k case, likely by Lissauer or Dubois
DSC02727.JPG
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,330
1,881
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
Cats out of the bag now Ethan. I won’t post fully until I find a solid gold case for it. Currently in a very nice JBoss case. Found with a regular dial so was thrilled to find a suitable Hull dial.
Congratulations on finding a hunter example. These AWCO 12-size bridge movements are uncommon. I understand that only 400 hunters and 500-600 open face examples were made.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTSPatrick

Lee Passarella

NAWCC Member
Jul 8, 2015
385
590
93
Country
Region
While I'm going about impoverishing my heirs and assigns, I also picked up my first Illinois Sangamo, this one from 1920. I keep seeing Sangamos marked and unmarked. The difference is the "60 hours" marking, as I understand it. Are the earlier ones supposed to be 60-hour models but just not marked? Is there a date after which all Sangamos became marked?

IMG_1077.JPG IMG_1078.JPG
 

Fred Hansen

NAWCC Member
Aug 18, 2002
5,412
476
83
Country
While I'm going about impoverishing my heirs and assigns, I also picked up my first Illinois Sangamo, this one from 1920. I keep seeing Sangamos marked and unmarked. The difference is the "60 hours" marking, as I understand it. Are the earlier ones supposed to be 60-hour models but just not marked? Is there a date after which all Sangamos becam
Nice watch Lee!

The 23 jewel open face Sangamo Special evolved through a number of steps during the course of its production. The six main stages in its development were ...

  1. Model 9, internally jeweled barrel, crosshatch damaskeen, true center bridge, 16 size
  2. Model 9, internally jeweled barrel, crosshatch damaskeen, false center bridge, 16 size
  3. Model 10, jeweled Motor Barrel, broad transverse band damaskeen, false center bridge, 16 size
  4. Model 10, jeweled Motor Barrel, broad transverse band damaskeen, false center bridge, 17 size
  5. Model 13, jeweled Motor Barrel, 60 Hour but not marked, broad transverse band damaskeen, false center bridge, 17 size
  6. Model 13, jeweled Motor Barrel, 60 Hour and marked “Sixty Hour,” broad transverse band damaskeen, false center bridge, 17 size
... and your watch falls within the run where the transition from the 3rd to 4th of these versions happened, when the Sangamo Special was changed from 16 size to 17 size. Your watch is not a 60 Hour as this happened at the next step in the progression which came a few years after your watch was made. Total production of the 60 Hour versions was 11,200 of which the first 9,000 were not marked and the final 2,200 were marked.
 

vintageguy

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Oct 27, 2013
296
458
63
58
Minnesota
Country
Region
I've recently become interested in watches made by the Newark Watch Company and its successors. Here are my first two (in addition to the Newark Robert Fellows #10323 I previously showed in a separate post).

The first is a private label Newark Serial # 8774 - I'm not sure what grade designation would be assigned to this movement. It's in a really nice three ounce sterling silver case with the arched Waltham signature. Unfortunately, it's missing its winding arbor escutcheon, but I can live with - I was just happy to find a Newark movement in a seemingly original case in nice overall condition.

IMG_8210x.jpg IMG_8197x.jpg Case.jpg


The second is a Cornell C.T. Bowen Serial # 22657 in an unmarked three ounce coin silver case. For reasons I myself don't quite understand, I'm a sucker for these drum-style coin cases.

IMG_8181x.jpg img2.jpg Case.jpg
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,076
3,625
113
New York State
Country
For reasons I myself don't quite understand, I'm a sucker for these drum-style coin cases.
I understand they look great! ;) Nice watches


Rob
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,074
1,368
113
66
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Paul, you are correct. Unfortunately there are some out there who feel the need to rewrite history.....
Hi Bryan. If you mean that a collector or a seller who would put a three-line glass enamel dial on a Model 1888 would be "rewriting history," I agree with you. I prefer period and grade appropriate dials for my watches, as I assume you do, but those aren't always the only dials that might be "original." I merely observed that factory-original anomalies do occasionally occur. The dial and movement of the particular Model 1888 I showed have independent value, but I attached no particulr extra value to the combination because it is anachronistic. The watch left my hands the same way I bought it. It went to a very knowledgable collector, who knows exactly what that watch is and is not, as part of a larger trade.
 
Last edited:

Paul Sullivan

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 15, 2011
696
440
63
Massachusetts
Country
Region
Hamilton 16s 4992B 24hr G.C.T. (Greenwich Civil Time) watch circa 1944.

I bought this watch back in Nov. at a J&H auction. I had always been interested in getting one because of it's connection with celestial navigation, the unambiguous 24 hr. day dial, and when it came to telling time by using a 24 hr. That being said it's also a popular watch to collect in general and in particular with Hamilton enthusiasts. I put in an early bid and forgot about it until I was notified I had won. No one else bid on it.
It's in clean good condition though it runs a bit sluggish and slow and will benefit from a cleaning and oiling along with a new mainspring.


Mvmnt edit.JPG 4992B Dial.JPG collage.jpg
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,330
1,881
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
My latest addition, from the most recent J&H auction, is this 18k open face Elgin Grade 72 21j "convertible," which is unusual because it is a triple-signed Bailey, Banks & Biddle PL. Only about 450 Grade 72 were made; very few of them were private labelled.

I collect Elgin 21j convertibles. I now have three Grade 72s and three Grade 91s. I also collect Jeannot & Shiebler-cased watches, another category this BBB PL ticks off.

DSC07088 (928x1280).jpg DSC07093 (1006x1280).jpg DSC07095 (1280x1058).jpg

DSC07097 (1280x1154).jpg DSC07098 (1280x809).jpg DSC07099 (1280x1253).jpg

I think the movement will glisten once I get it cleaned.

The damascening on each of myGrade 72s is different

DSC03077 (1278x1280).jpg IMG_3973 (1232x1280).jpg

The dials on all my 21j convertibles are similar double-sunk enamel dials, but there are subtle differences.

Arabic Dials, Red Arabic Numeral Minute Track
DSC07088 (928x1280).jpg DSC03095.JPG
Bold Arabic Dial, Red Arabic Numeral Minute Track
IMG_4606.JPG
Arabic Dial, Blue Arabic Numeral Minute Track
IMG_3963.JPG
Roman Numeral Dial, No Minute Track
IMG_3690.JPG
Roman Numeral Dial, Red Arabic Numeral Minute Track
IMG_4638.JPG
 
Last edited:
Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
RULES & GUIDELINES

Find member

Forum statistics

Threads
163,536
Messages
1,421,046
Members
84,938
Latest member
Naama
Encyclopedia Pages
1,101
Total wiki contributions
2,857
Last edit
Aurora's 15 Ruby Jewel Movements by Greg Frauenhoff

514 Poplar Street
Columbia, PA 17512

Phone: 717-684-8261

Contact the Webmaster for perceived copyright infringement (DMCA Registration Number 1010287).

Copyright © National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors Inc (A 501c3 non-profit corporation). All Rights Reserved.

The NAWCC is dedicated to providing association services, promoting interest in and encouraging the collecting of clocks and watches including disseminating knowledge of the same.