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Ethan Lipsig

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DTSPatrick, the Maximus A and the closely related 10-size Riverside A movements are very nice ones, but I am not sure I would say that either was a "very limited production". The Autry and Lindberg Riverside Maximus production tables don't agree with each other and are sometimes hard to interpret. As best I can tell from the generally less accurate Autry table, 2,000 23j Maximus A movements were made. The generally more accurate Lindberg table suggests more were made, but I am not sure how to interpret it. (It is in the April 1985 NAWCC Bulletin, if you care to look.)

Regrettably, your watch appears to have lost its case. Two watches in my collection may give you an idea of what it might have looked like when cased.

The first of these is a Maximus A within 100 serial numbers of your watch. It has the same dial but different hands. It is in a platinum case likely by Perry Marks.

Platinum (3).jpg Platinum (2).JPG Platinum (1).JPG Platinum (4).JPG

The second is a 10-size Riverside A in a 14k case, also likely by Perry Marks. It has a very similar dial and the same hands as your watch.

PM (7).JPG PM (1).JPG PM (2).JPG PM (3).JPG PM (4).JPG PM (5).JPG PM (6).JPG
 
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DTSPatrick

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Regrettably, your watch appears to have lost its case.
Ethan, thanks for the information and pictures of your beautiful watches. That platinum case is amazing!
Sadly, the original case was probably smelted— but, it gives me a treasure hunt. Who doesn’t like to play hide-and-seek? :D I’m sure I’ll find a case in time.
Or, maybe Vortic will make a 10s in time and it’ll find a home in a marriage/conversion watch.
 

Kenny S.

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A relatively new (to me) 16s Amn. Grade '88. The scarcity (only 2300-3300 made) of this grade surprised me a little. Then again, so did the jewel count; 16. I just got done working on it as the hands were slipping so I tightened the pinion and gave the movement a bath in my Watchmaster. The case was a little too tarnished for my liking as well so I took some Weiman's silver polish to it and I think it looks quite nice now. The tri-color gold inlay in the coin silver really came out once I polished it as did the quaint country cabin on the back cover.

P1010809.JPG P1010810.JPG P1010811.JPG P1010812.JPG P1010813.JPG P1010814.JPG
 

Clint Geller

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A relatively new (to me) 16s Amn. Grade '88. The scarcity (only 2300-3300 made) of this grade surprised me a little. Then again, so did the jewel count; 16. I just got done working on it as the hands were slipping so I tightened the pinion and gave the movement a bath in my Watchmaster. The case was a little too tarnished for my liking as well so I took some Weiman's silver polish to it and I think it looks quite nice now. The tri-color gold inlay in the coin silver really came out once I polished it as did the quaint country cabin on the back cover.

View attachment 617410 View attachment 617411 View attachment 617412 View attachment 617413 View attachment 617414 View attachment 617415
Pretty watch.
 
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Paul Sullivan

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925 "The Union" 18s 17j


925 630004 The Union movement.JPG 925 Union Dial  detail new.JPG

collage.jpg

Union and Union Specials and GT Unions seem to have all been made for H.F. Hahn Co. of Chicago.

Out side of the many private label Hamilton made for the earlier 924s and 925s they made the following variants:

924 Variants
Name Units

Gilt Trim - 8798
Special- 3010
Union - 2061
Gilt Trim Special - 564
Gilt Trim Union - 259
Union Special - 91
Special Finish- 88
Banner - 50
Gilt Trim Union Special - 50

A few 924s were named presidents T. Roosevelt , Washington, and Lincoln(?)

925 Variants

Gilt Trim- 5724
Gilt Trim Special- 437
Special Finish- 114
Gilt Trim Banner- 50
Gilt Trim Union- 186
Gilt Trim Special Union- 59
 
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Jerry Treiman

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I keep reading about watches that folks are finding in their mailboxes, so I went out to take a look in my mailbox today and there was a watch for ME!
3718007f.jpg 3718007d.jpg 3718007m.jpg

Actually, I saw this little (1-size) coin silver ladies watch on eBay over the weekend and couldn’t resist. It is not the highest grade movement but certainly not the lowest grade either -- somewhere in the middle with 13 jewels. The grade “B” is a nameless equivalent of the Royal grade. It dates from around 1888-89.
 

vintageguy

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Actually, I saw this little (1-size) coin silver ladies watch on eBay over the weekend and couldn’t resist.
That plate layout is sooo sweet! I think lady-size pocket watches are underrated, underappreciated, and way, way underpriced.
 
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Clint Geller

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I keep reading about watches that folks are finding in their mailboxes, so I went out to take a look in my mailbox today and there was a watch for ME!
View attachment 619687 View attachment 619688 View attachment 619686

Actually, I saw this little (1-size) coin silver ladies watch on eBay over the weekend and couldn’t resist. It is not the highest grade movement but certainly not the lowest grade either -- somewhere in the middle with 13 jewels. The grade “B” is a nameless equivalent of the Royal grade. It dates from around 1888-89.
I need a new mailbox. There must be something wrong with it.
 

DTSPatrick

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I’m not sure why Clint’s mailbox isn’t overflowing with new surprises — but, I looked again and found this really great 0s Waltham dial in my mailbox. My mail carrier thinks I paid a little too much for it... but, I couldn’t resist that unique black enamel dial. Now I need to find a nice movement and gold case for it. Keeping the USPS employed.
 

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Jskirk

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This was in the mailbox today.
The Fifth Avenue
Illinois 16s 19 Jewel 606 Model 7.
This is a nice surprise, the pics in the Auction were not real clear and The Fifth Avenue was not in the description. So is this a grade label or private label?
 

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Rick Hufnagel

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I’m not sure why Clint’s mailbox isn’t overflowing with new surprises — but, I looked again and found this really great 0s Waltham dial in my mailbox. My mail carrier thinks I paid a little too much for it... but, I couldn’t resist that unique black enamel dial. Now I need to find a nice movement and gold case for it. Keeping the USPS employed.
I just received a dial in the mailbox today as well.
IMG_20201103_175538432.jpg

I like to pick up loose private label dials when I see them. One day it will make a nice display. This one is double sunk and fits a full plate Elgin. I have two watches, Victorian trading cards and now this dial from Mr. Tappin.

The dial is transferred and double sunk. It most likely came from a grade 70, 77, 27, or 116 (these are the grades that could be marked BW Raymond in the late 1880s through much of the 1890s)

Wish it had a movement behind it, but can't always have everything!
 

Rick Hufnagel

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One more dial I recently purchased. Been having some fun with dials.

I knew what it was right away, because I'm hunting one of the watches it belongs on.. so this was a neat dial to find.

Let's have some fun, who can be the first to guess what it belongs to?

HINT:
There's only one model (which is also only one grade) that would use this dial.

IMG_20201106_215339787~2.jpg
 

Rick Hufnagel

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Found one I've been missing for my old model 16s. Model 5, grade 107.

While the 108 is infinitely more beautiful because it's nickel and great damaskeen, the 107 is also noteworthy because... At 15 jewels and adjusted it was also a top of the line watch of this model.

I have a small pile of (mostly rescue) model 3 and 5 16s Elgins and the 107 has been an elusive bugger to capture. Always looking for grades I don't have yet in halfway decent condition.

This watch cleaned up pretty well, runs great. Finally got a chance to sit and work on a watch this morning and this was the first one in view.

IMG_20201108_130402968.jpg IMG_20201108_130306841.jpg
 

vintageguy

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Let's have some fun, who can be the first to guess what it belongs to?

HINT:
There's only one model (which is also only one grade) that would use this dial.
Answer, please :screwball:
 

James J Nicholson

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And another of my favorites, AWWCo Royal model 1888 15j 16s with what appears to be an O'Hara dial
 

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DTSPatrick

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As I mentioned in an earlier thread, a recent death in the family has led to lots of digging in old boxes. I found an Eagle Scout award/medal, a Navy officer’s sword, and something I was really looking for — my grandfather’s pocket watch from Packard. My grandfather lived to the age of 96 after lying to the US government and fighting in World War I at the age of 16, fought again in World War II, and eventually became an engineer. The jet engines and the car engines cost my grandfather his hearing… But he did get a pretty nice watch.
 

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musicguy

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I agree nice 10 year gift!


Rob
 
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Paul Sullivan

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"And for just 10 years of service?? Wow!! My, how times have changed... "

Indeed! Few working today have the kind of working benefits I had when starting work in the early 70's. Corporations and larger companies today are quite stingy.
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Paul, you stated that "Corporations and larger companies today are quite stingy." I disagree unless all you really mean is that the era of the gold retirement watch is over.

My career focused on compensation and benefits. The right way to determine generosity is to look at the value of the entire compensation package, rather than specific elements. For example, would you prefer to work for Company A that pays you $100,000 per year but provides no benefits, or Company B that pays you $85.000 per year but gives you $5,000 of benefits? Employees generally value cash more than benefits of equal value. To illustrate this, about 35 years ago, I led a drive to give my firm's employees a choice of continuing to receive a 10 percent of pay annual retirement plan contribution or a 10 percent pay raise because they were not giving my firm 100 percent credit for that retirement plan contribution. They chose the pay raise.
 

Kenny S.

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Paul, you stated that "Corporations and larger companies today are quite stingy." I disagree unless all you really mean is that the era of the gold retirement watch is over.
I have to agree with Ethan here. When I stated times had changed I was lamenting that the days of gold watches were over, but to say that I haven't received gifts from my employer for my service isn't true. I work for a large Defense Contractor and every 5 years we're given a catalog from which we choose a gift for our level of service. At 5 years I chose a toaster oven and 10 years, a crock pot (keeps wifey happy ;)). I did find it amusing that they offer really nice mountain bikes and kayaks for those with 50 years or more of service. Makes me wonder if they're trying to kill 'em off...lol.

Having said all that, a 14k gold watch for 10 years of service is very generous. I guess that was my main point.
 
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Clint Geller

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I got a fake, battery powered anniversary clock as a retirement gift after 40 years at the Naval Nuclear Laboratory last May. The only alternative they offered was a pewter model of the USS Nautilus. But I'm not complaining. I get a defined benefit pension check every month, and in PA where I live, it is completely untaxed. Meanwhile, I am still gainfully employed, working a new part-time job from home as a Senior Advisor Scientist for Materials Design Inc. (I kept my old job title from NNL), reporting to the founder, board chairman and Chief Science Officer. (At MDI, everyone works from home and has done so for the past 25 years. MDI has always been way ahead of the curve, both organizationally as well as technically.)

So the bottom line is that I can buy my own gold watches, partly on account of the other retirement benefits I receive, and I do. I've shown it before, but here is the "retirement" watch I bought myself earlier this year:

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/please...to-your-collection.165253/page-6#post-1369566
 
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musicguy

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I got a fake, battery powered anniversary clock as a retirement gift
I'm going to call you out on this one Clint
How can any functional clock be fake? Does it need to wind to be real? I do get your
point and obviously I'm messing with you.


Rob
 

Clint Geller

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I'm going to call you out on this one Clint
How can any functional clock be fake? Does it need to wind to be real? I do get your
point and obviously I'm messing with you.


Rob
Yeah, I thought of that too, Rob. :) But I was thinking that in a "real" anniversary clock, the rotating pendulum would be an essential part of the mechanism, not just a completely separate moving decoration. So it is certainly a working clock, but it is also pretending to be something that it is not.
 
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Clint Geller

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This mvt came my way recently.

View attachment 622223
That's a pretty scarce item, Greg. I have seen perhaps only a dozen or so signed Howard black dials over the years. I've seen them in G, L, and N Size, but I don't at this moment recall a J Size black dial. I believe you said yours is L Size. My two favorites are N Size black dials with unique calligraphy and Moorhouse signatures on the backs. Note the gold hands, one with diamond brilliants. Standard blued Howard umbrella hands wouldn't have worked so well.

Black Gothic Dial Signed J Moorhouse.JPG View attachment 622232 H-31-dial[1].jpg
 
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Jerry Treiman

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I just found this watch from eBay. 14-size movements are common but 14-size cases are becoming harder to find, especially nice ones like this. It may house a nicer movement one of these days, but right now the original 7-jewel movement is keeping excellent time. It just needed a crystal and hands. The case is an Am.Watch Co. coin silver case. Front and back are the same except for the place for a monogram.
3255585-b.jpg 3255585-f.jpg 3255585-m.jpg
 

James J Nicholson

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Here is one of my earlier acquisitions that I had described but was unable to post pictures of. It is a Waltham Model 1883 17j Crescent Street S/N 7786388 18s pendant set open face with an estimated production year of 1896.
It has what appears to be an original case, and a really nice snowflake damaskeen pattern and a 24 hr dial. Sometimes you get lucky on fleabay. Picked this up at what I consider to be a bargain basement price of a little over 100.00. Another one of my favorites in my growing collection. James

16055311936158229612240946092638.jpg 16055312851483323468300433620225.jpg 16055313406394283227915552556073.jpg 16055313819151124032633186260208.jpg
 

Paul Sullivan

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James,

The movement and case look beautiful!
Like you I'm always poking around the 'Bay in the "low end of the pool" looking for good movements, evicted from their cases either for re-sale (hopefully) or scrap. Lately I have taken in a few of these movements or "strays" as I call them. Generally these are usually Elgins, Walthams, and Hamiltons, since these were also the main grades I collected (outside of Illinois). I have a decent stock of Hamilton, Waltham, and Elgin 16-18s dials gathered over the years at decent prices, but Illinois always seem to be much higher, and particularly double sunk dials. So I only buy Illinois movements complete with dial and hands. My stock of dials, hands, and cases (some nice others a bit tatty) is good. And I've been recently buying,
sterling, coin silver, and decent silverode/nickel cases to house stranded movements.
 
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James J Nicholson

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Hello fellow collectors. Not being able to find anything recently to add to my collection, I found a new addition to house my little treasures in that I would like to share with you. This woodworkers masterpiece was done by a fellow called Mike Balthazar who makes custom pocket watch cases in his home woodworking shop.
I have two of this type, and a really cool stand up case with a curved glass base which I has posted pics of in a previous thread. They have that old school vibe and really make my collection stand out..
It really isnt easy to find cases to house pocket watches these days, most i've seen are re-purposed curio cabinets.
 

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DTSPatrick

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My new addition looks a bit like 2 additions. I just added the above left Maximus A which is about to takeover the case of the bottom right Riverside A in a beautiful 14k Waltham case. Love the Colonial A size — great heft and feel in a compact size.
The dial on this Maximus has a very interesting textured dial with a sunburst effect — very nice hour markers too. Not sure if I’m the biggest fan of the hands — a bit overpowering for the watch and matched with a seconds hand that looks too short. The hands are blued (look black in photo).
 

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Jerry Treiman

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Your new Maximus has the correct hands for that dial, but the dial and hand combination may be a bit late for that case. Here are two 1926 catalog pages showing the later style. These dial and hands are also shown in 1923 and the case with the football-shaped bow appears as early as 1918.
1926_p6-7.jpg

Also here is a photo of my earlier Maximus-A in the earlier case with oval bow, from around 1917.
20049764f.jpg

You may wish to use the Riverside dial and hands on your Maximus as they are seen on other movements in the same serial number range.
 

DTSPatrick

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Your new Maximus has the correct hands for that dial, but the dial and hand combination may be a bit late for that case. Here are two 1926 catalog pages showing the later style. These dial and hands are also shown in 1923 and the case with the football-shaped bow appears as early as 1918.
Actually the Maximus movement (20165512) is earlier than the Riverside/case (20189803). Maybe this dial is found on earlier movements too.
 
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Kenny S.

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Checked my mailbox today and I got another Waltham '92! I almost passed on this one because there's really nothing special about it. Until I noticed the word "PREMIER" over the ratchet wheel. I am not astute enough to know why a 17j AT&Co has the word Premier on the lowest jeweled '92 that Waltham produced, but I'm hoping some of you are. This in in fact the only '92 that I've seen this inscription, but that's not saying anything as I'm still a neophyte here. Have any of you seen this? Do any of you have similar examples? What makes it a Premier?

Thanks,

Kenny

Edit: Upon searching the database, I see several "Premier" examples shown. Still, what makes it a Premier?

20201123_173502.jpg 20201123_173705.jpg 20201123_173810.jpg
 
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