Please help identify golden pocket watch

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by stanks, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. stanks

    stanks New Member

    Mar 8, 2011
    2
    0
    0
    Hello!
    Recently i got golden pocket watch from father, but it's origins is outside family, so i would appreciate if someone could provide a bit more info about it.
    Insignia that is attached to chain probably is related to it's previous (most likely first) owner, and if someone could point me to any sources where i could get more info about it, i would appreciate that too.

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=381&pictureid=2208

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=381&pictureid=2210

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=381&pictureid=2211

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=381&pictureid=2212

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=381&pictureid=2214

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=381&pictureid=2215

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=381&pictureid=2209
     
  2. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 14, 2001
    5,483
    310
    83
    Aerospace Engineer
    New Hampshire
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    You have a very high grade pocket watch. Most of the writing in French describes features of the movement

    21 Jewels
    (Double Plateau) Double roller, an advance when your watc h was made circa 1880
    Straight line lever
    3 chatons these are colet around jewels in the movement. I count four so I presume the one in the center does not count!
    Spiral Breguet describes the hairspring stating it has a coil above teh rest of the spring. This improves tiemkeeping.

    balancier Coude is a mystery to me, but I guess it means compensated balance- many watches had faked compenstaion balances. Look at the slots in the balance arms. I can not tell from your picture so you will ahev to check to see that slots are cut completely through teh balance arms. One end has to be free for compensation.

    It is not top grade but it is very respectable and desrves care.

    When you close the fron tcover be sure to press in the button to prevent wear on its catch.

    The 14K mark on teh case is nice but does not mean anything. The squirrel under it is a real hallmark and it is reliable. That mark is also on the pendant and that dimple at about 5:30 on teh case body in your picture is another squirrel mark.

    The fob is problematic. If it is contemporary with tje watch it preceded NAZI's. The swastica goes the same way the NAZI symbol and is used similarly. If it has hallmarks and they are German it is much later than the watch.


    The watch inscriptions are in French so it was made for the French or Swiss markets. If the fob has similar hallmarks it sorigin is open to question, which is probably a good thing.
     
  3. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    10,993
    289
    83
    UK
    Country Flag:
    That's "balancier coupe" (with an acute accent over the "e") meaning cut balance, DrJ.
     
  4. stanks

    stanks New Member

    Mar 8, 2011
    2
    0
    0
    thanks for information, if the watch is made around 1880 then indeed this insignia must have been added quite a bit later as it has date with 1929 and initials HJ or HI on it, probably was some kind of present to someone. And there are no hallmarks on insignia anywhere too.
     
  5. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

    Aug 27, 2000
    14,364
    53
    48
    Calgary, Alberta
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    To add to what Dr. Jon had to say, the word is "coupe", or "cut". As to the swastika- I have little doubt that this could be a Nazi artifact, but the swastika symbol I am told goes back centuries.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

    But I am wondering if this particular swastika is associated with an East Indian ceremonial kirpan, and may NOT be Nazi?
     
  6. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    10,993
    289
    83
    UK
    Country Flag:
    I would be confident that the symbol of a swastika on a dagger (a much used German army emblem) means this was a Nazi piece.
     
  7. Audemars

    Audemars Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Aug 6, 2010
    1,017
    79
    48
    Male
    Retired
    Somerset, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The Hakenkreuz + Sword on the fob is a Nazi symbol and has no connection with the watch which even to my untutored eye, is french swiss, and older than the Nazi era.

    The Swastika is indeed an ancient Hindu good luck symbol, but it is usually depicted vertically, not diagonally (see the cover of any pre-war edition of Rudyard Kiplings stories) and the "elbows" usually go the other way from the Nazi version which was adopted by Hitler as an aryan symbol.
    The hotel I used to stay in in Kanpur had Swasitka grafitti all over the stairwell, mixed with the betel juice stains. Charming.

    Because of the British-Indian Empire connection Swastikas can often be seen built into the gables of late Victorian or Edwardian British town houses - no doubt a serious embarrassment to their present owners.

    P
     
  8. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

    Sep 16, 2008
    561
    69
    28
    Country Flag:
    LOL, I was surprised to find them all over the place during a recent trip to Tibet...including this carved into the entrance of an ancient monastary. 86509.jpg
     

Share This Page