Play in strike hammer shaft - leave or bush??

NEW65

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Here’s a link of a video showing wear where the strike hammer shaft enters the front plate of an hermle movement. I’ve seen this before on many hermle movements, some are worse than others. My query is does it need bushing? This is the movement that has had 19 bushings installed! The thought of dismantling again doesn’t particular turn me on as it’s all been set up and appears to be running well on the test stand! However if it is that important a job and needs doing then I’ll just get the job done!
To be honest I don’t think I’ve ever had to rebush an hammer shaft arbor!
Your thoughts please?
Leave or bush?
Is it that important? Could it fail if left?
Heres the link to the video:

Thanks as always :)
 

NEW65

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That’s what I was thinking too wow, I guess if it was really bad I would have to consider it though? I pictured a possible situation with excess play where possibly the arbor is lifted by the star wheel and it potentially gets stuck in the worn part of the hole? I really don’t want to strip it down again if I can help it though as I’ve already spent hours and hours of my time on this movement.
Cheers wow :)
 

NEW65

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Just an I update.
Today I’ve fitted 23 bushings in an hermle 1151 which is less than 10 yrs of age!! It took me some time! I couldn’t believe the amount of wear!
However I completed the job and rebuilt thebmovement along with resetting the silencing feature etc
All seemed good until I suddenly noticed the rate of the hour strike decreasing and eventually it stopped working altogether! I just couldn’t figure it out!
I checked it all out and it turns out that the strike hammer arbor (front pivot of arbor where it enters the front plate) had excessive play - so worn that the pivot was lifted upwards Into the worn hole and actually got stuck!
So now I’ve got to take the movement apart again and rebush this badly worn hole. The video above is a different movement but has the same issue although this one hasn’t reached the point of failure.
The joys of clock Repair!! Not feeling happy :(
 
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Willie X

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I've never seen that problem before, in any clock, well maybe half that much wear. It will get progressively worse. In regular machinery that type of non rotational wear is called frapping. "It's frapped out".

I hate those clocks that try to be a full time occupation, all by themselves. :(

That video is an excellent example of how oil can help judge the pivot fit.

Willie
 

NEW65

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Thanks Willie.
I recall the day’s when I wasn’t able to rebush and was paying someone else to do the repairs. Once again, the above issue occurred , this tine in hermle 0451. I had paid to have a number of bushings fitted . Upon re assembly I later discovered the above same issue / strike arbor lifted high into a worn hole and just failed to rotate! Once again I was very disappointed ! As I remember I don’t think I ever had that fault rectified! (What a waste of time and money that was!). It’s not so bad now I’m able to do the job myself but very disappointing knowing the movement has to be taken apart again!
What worries me most is that I’ve let many clocks go out (with Hermle movements) with play in this arbor! Too late to worry now, Willie :rolleyes::confused:
 
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Willie X

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Yep, I have quite a few of those new Hermle movement, with the big pivot holes, out there. I know that when the first one comes back the rest will follow!

In the future, I will be sure to check the hammer arbors more closely too.

Willie
 

JimmyOz

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Hermle deserve their own thread 'Post your latest Hermle nightmare' however they will keep clock repairers in work for many years to come.

Here is 2 barrels I repaired a few weeks ago. how they did not let go amazes me.
CIMG1192.JPG
 
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NEW65

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I complained to hermle about the amount of problems I have with their movements. Here’s what they said:

‘I fully understand your frustration and I agree this shouldn’t happen.

For your information, we have improved the quality section in our production and have implemented more quality inspection after assembling of the clock movements..
It won’t be helpful for the current situation you have – but for the future we really improved and reinforced the quality control of the assembly
I hope that you will continue with us and that you try to keep the trust in Hermle and in our products’

Jimmy, never seen anything like it!
 

Willie X

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Like we haven't heard that before!

A class action law suit might move things in the right direction? But that might force bankruptcy also, which wouldn't help anyone at all.

From what's been happening over the last few years, the 'last man standing' now probably has one foot in the grave and the other foot on a banana peel'. :(

I think they need to back up their future "improved quality control" with a stronger warranty. Or, at least stop going up on the prices.

I'm still surprised that the Chinese haven't stepped into this game. Probably not feasible now because of low numbers and high start up cost.

Oh well, we may all have to go the 15 bushing route like NEW just did ...

Willie X
 

NEW65

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Someone told me that 20% of their stuff isn’t made in Germany.
Cheers Willie, I agree totally with you.
 

shutterbug

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The final inspection is the most important job in the plant. They need their best people there! It's getting to the point where the decision to go with a new movement or repair the old one is leaning toward the repair. There's nothing worse than having to fix some issue that left the factory when it should have been stopped right at the final inspection. We don't buy new movements to repair.
 

R. Croswell

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Regarding the original question (to bush or not to bush a worn strike hammer pivot hole) I agree, it probably won't be a problem in the near future but wear tends to beget more wear so at some point, when the movement is disassembled again, I would consider bushing that pivot hole.

In clocks generally, not just Hermle movements, worn strike hammer and strike control lever pivot holes (and sometimes pivots) are often neglected. While wear at these points may not cause an operational problem, in many cases it can add to the difficulty of reassembling the movement. It can be so much easier to reassemble a movement when all the pivot holes fit the pivots and the arbors stand up straight We seldom discuss this as a reason to bush a pivot hole but perhaps it should be a consideration. A while back I serviced a Welch, Spring & Co. "Patti" movement and recall the strike control lever arbors kept falling over then when I would straighten them up several other pivots would pop out. These can be a pain even on a good day. The clock came back for a problem unrelated to the previous repair but I had to disassemble it again. I installed 4 bushings for the strike control levers "just for me" - didn't charge the customer. $3 bucks for the bushings saved me a lot more than $3 bucks in time spent putting it back together. I guess one might call this preemptive bushing work. Just something to think about when deciding what, what not to bush.

RC
 

JimmyOz

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#10, This movement was a Westminster chimer, can't remember how many bushings I put in but almost them all. RC I totally agree, may as well do the iffy bushes just to save any problems as while the movement is apart it saves a lot of messing around later and/or the dreaded phone call " my clock stopped". a few months down the track.

On that dreaded phone call. I got one last week from a lady I repaired 2 clocks for, she said they both stopped the same day, I thought 'Yeh right' what she did not tell me was that a friend had visited and he wound the clocks, anyway I called in after golf as it was close and right enough the nice small French marble clock had been wound so hard it turned the dial/movement a few Mill and knocked it out of beat and the 1930 GF clock had the weight on the time train pulled up so hard the small washer had cut into the timber and was holding the weight up. So even when you do the bit extra to make sure you don't get those calls we can't forget the operator error. No charge as this lady has told a few people about her clocks and I have a few more jobs from them. While there she also asked me if I could put here sliding door back on as it came off the track, (which I did) I asked her how her roof was she missed the joke!!
 

shutterbug

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LOL. Be careful. You might be doing shingles too :D
 

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