Picked up a Waltham Vanguard 1892!

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Paul Raposo, Mar 25, 2017.

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  1. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
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    Nov 4, 2005
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    Hi rolandantrobus, thanks for your post :thumb:

    From what I've seen online the Vanguard watches had gold washed arms rather than nickle. Some even had gold washed screws.

    Doing some research here on the forum I found the meantime screws at each end of the balance arms can be adjusted for rate, so I decided to screw both in all the way.

    Before I did, the movement was losing 13 seconds per hour dial up with the regulator centered. After moving the screws in, over the last 10 hours the movement has gained 30 seconds in total.

    I think because the regulator arm was lost whoever serviced the watch last opened up the screws to try and get some kind of regulation on the balance wheel. With the index pins now controlling the spring it was running far too slow.

    A further option would be to open the screws one half turn which is suppose to take off 2.5 seconds per hour, but that's not something I'd want to do before having the movement serviced, since I don't know the service history.

    I'm going to check it after 24 hours, then leave it dial down and then pendant up and see how the time keeping is.

    Here's a pic of the gold arm from the fantastic Model 92 website:

    http://www.model92.com/


    [​IMG]
     
  2. musicguy

    musicguy Registered User
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    Jan 12, 2017
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    By the way, great close up photos.
    Good luck dialing it in.


    Rob
     
  3. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
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    Thanks Rob :thumb: We've had some good sun around here so I took advantage of it.
     
  4. Mark UK

    Mark UK Registered User

    Apr 13, 2015
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    Paul, without the regulator arm your watch would have been running at it's slowest, so if anyone did anything to change the speed then they would have had to have screwed the meantime screws inwards to speed it up, not outwards. So I doubt that this would be the reason for your watch running slow.

    I think the gold-washing of regulator/screws etc probably came and went during different periods of manufacture so I wouldn't worry too much about your regulator just yet, wait until you can compare your Vanguard with other similar spec ones from the same batch... even then I don't think you could be 100% sure.
     
  5. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
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    Nov 4, 2005
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    I didn't know that. I wound the watch before I bought it to make sure it was running and it was running very fast dial up which I assumed was because there was no regulator.
     
  6. Mark UK

    Mark UK Registered User

    Apr 13, 2015
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    It may have been the hairspring is set just a little high on the balance staff, or a slight worn balance staff pivot, or the hairspring stud was slightly high on the balance cock, all of these could cause the hairspring to rub on the underside of the balance cock when dial up. You have fitted the regulator and likely moved the hairspring stud so this might not be so obvious now but worth checking that you have good clearance. A service should identify other issues such as dirty/damaged pivots/jewels etc.
     
  7. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
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    Thought I'd post an update regarding the timing on this one.

    Over 24 hours each position:
    DU +54 secs
    DD +72 secs

    But over 12 hours:
    PU -178 secs

    That last one concerned me. I checked the spring and wheel and they weren't rubbing on the bridge or plate, the spring was inside the index pins and moving between the two equally and the balance motion was very good. I don't have a timing machine so I can't give specific amplitudes or errors.

    I was worried about a bent pivot so I removed the balance and took the wheel off the bridge and fortunately both pivots are straight. The jewels are good too and not cracked. I also made sure the width between the index pins was two spring coils and they are parallel.

    I took a few pictures to show the spring and wheel. I noticed one of the screws on the wheel is screwed in further than it's mate on the other side. That screw is on the bottom of the wheel in the PU position. I haven't touched them and posted the pics here for some opinions.

    By the way, all of this is just to make there is nothing terribly wrong with the movement. I don't know the service history and don't plan to carry the watch, but I would like to have it serviced later this year.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Aug 25, 2000
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    The exaggerated error in the pendant up position suggests to me a problem with the poise. It looks like the second and third timing screws away from balance arm may not be matched which could cause such a problem.
     
  9. Paul Raposo

    Paul Raposo Registered User
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    Nov 4, 2005
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    #59 Paul Raposo, Apr 17, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
    Thank you Jerry. I don't have a posing stand or frankly the knowledge of how to use one correctly. I will have to save this for my watchmaker. Hopefully it's something he can sort out, but that will have to be later this year.
     
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