• The Bulletins and Marts are again available online. The network connectivity problem has been fixed. Thank you all very much for your patience.

Peseux 7046 servicing - incabloc jewels - advice on how to reseat anti-shock spring hinge

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Hi,
I'm looking for anyone who can advise how to re-seat an incabloc jewel anti-shock spring hinge back into the slot in the main plate jewel surround on a Peseux 7046 movement.

It's a little hard to describe - I have completely stripped and cleaned the watch, including the incabloc jewels. On the balance bridge, I was able to hinge the retaining spring legs open and remove the jewels and reseat it for cleaning - I'm hoping I will be able to do the same in reverse. In the main plate I did the same but the 'lyre' shaped retaining clip fell out after I had unclipped the legs. The straight edge feature or hinge bar I just cannot get back into the slot to then fold it down and clip the two legs in place. It's maddening! I've tried tweezers, pins, rodico combinations. My greatest fear is that a small slip and 'ping' the clip will disappear somewhere. Does any one have any techniques or videos thereof that might be a more reliable and trusted method? I'm assuming the hinge feature is not damaged / broken at this time.

I've attached a photo of the jewel setting during disassembly as it was before I unclipped it. Hopefully it's clear enough for this purpose - it looks like I need to locate the hinge feature in the outer slot and rotate it into an upright position ready to then be pressed down and clipped back in place over the jewels.

I've found a video on youtube that shows how to replace a KIF spring - different geometry - is it possible that the spring lays on top of the jewel and the hinge has to 'slide' back into position in the same way ? I don't recall it's orientation when it came out other than I thought it was lifted up and 'open' when it did hence the installation I'm trying from above.

I'm a hobbyist at this and as it happens it's the first watch I've stripped with these types of jewels.
Any advice gratefully received (after spending about 5 hours on it so far!)

Kind Regards,
Andy

incabloc jewel installed.jpg
 
Last edited:

S.Humphrey

Registered User
Oct 4, 2012
893
63
28
Maryland
Country
Region
Hi Andy,

Keeping the rodico handy is a good idea.
It sounds like you are on the right track.
I would try taking the cap jewel out while you get the hinge side of the spring set into position. Then put the jewel in and the the two fingers lock under the lips of the setting. They are usually pretty easy to maneuver in there with tweezers or peg wood, but I believe there is also a specific tool for them. Hover over it with the rodico while you do it, just in case.

Regards,
Steve
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Raposo

Al J

Registered User
Jul 21, 2009
708
120
43
Canada
Country
Region
To install the spring, the best way is to press the jewel setting out, then mount the spring in it, then press it back in. If you use a Horia tool or something that allows you to measure the height of the setting so you can return it to the same spot, that is ideal.

Cheers, Al
 

Chris Radek

NAWCC Member
Apr 13, 2014
960
427
63
Lincoln, NE, USA
timeguy.com
Country
I have never pressed out a setting to replace a spring that has fallen out. The suggestion actually kind of baffles me because of what rb says: if it falls out it'll go right back in. It's really not unusual for them to come out. If you are having trouble putting it back, I can only assume it's because you can't see what you're doing. Do you have good quality, well dressed tweezers and a stereo microscope? I know I sound like a broken record, but if you don't have a stereo microscope you're shooting in the dark.
 

Skutt50

Registered User
Mar 14, 2008
3,960
286
83
Gothenburg
Country
I had the same problem before. Springs comming loose and even disapearing into "the black hole"......
Seems some are more prone to comming loose than others.

Nowdays I use a small piece of Rodico which I place over the hinge section before opening the spring.
Haven't had one coming loose since.
 

Al J

Registered User
Jul 21, 2009
708
120
43
Canada
Country
Region
I have never pressed out a setting to replace a spring that has fallen out. The suggestion actually kind of baffles me because of what rb says: if it falls out it'll go right back in. It's really not unusual for them to come out. If you are having trouble putting it back, I can only assume it's because you can't see what you're doing. Do you have good quality, well dressed tweezers and a stereo microscope? I know I sound like a broken record, but if you don't have a stereo microscope you're shooting in the dark.
Well, he's spent 5 hours already trying to get it to "fall back in" so I don't think giving him an alternative is that out of place, but of course you are entitled to your opinions.

Pressing the setting out, mounting the spring, and pressing it back in takes about 2 minutes...

Cheers, Al
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeweyC

Skutt50

Registered User
Mar 14, 2008
3,960
286
83
Gothenburg
Country
Any advice gratefully received (after spending about 5 hours on it so far!)
In my early days of watchmaking I had one that came loose. I spent a lot of time trying to re-fit it only to realise I tried to fit it in the wrong direction. I thought I checked but for some reason I got it wrong.......

You could try to work inside a plastic bag. It will reduce the risk of the spring disapearing but does not eliminate it!
 

roughbarked

Registered User
Dec 2, 2016
6,544
962
113
Western NSW or just this side of the black stump.
Country
Region
Yes. There is one way to fit it. If you fit it the other way, it will either continue to fall out or more likely, you'll break the spring when trying to open/close it.. The reason is that one side is the bearing point for the spring rather than the place where the spring can be opened easily..
 

roughbarked

Registered User
Dec 2, 2016
6,544
962
113
Western NSW or just this side of the black stump.
Country
Region
Well, he's spent 5 hours already trying to get it to "fall back in" so I don't think giving him an alternative is that out of place, but of course you are entitled to your opinions.

Pressing the setting out, mounting the spring, and pressing it back in takes about 2 minutes...

Cheers, Al
If you choose to move the setting, it doesn't have to come right out. It only needs to move far enough to allow access.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al J

pmwas

Registered User
Dec 12, 2010
2,238
1,578
113
Sosnowiec, Poland
Country
Region
Hmmmm... even though shock absorber springs are generally anoying, these are in fact not bad. IMO the type one has to rotate and remove are far worse.

In my ‚career’ whenever it falls out, I just slide the ‚hinge’ side back in and then lock the free endings in their notches. Never had any trouble with that, but then again I’ve never tried it in a Peseux movement ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: roughbarked

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Hi Andy,

Keeping the rodico handy is a good idea.
It sounds like you are on the right track.
I would try taking the cap jewel out while you get the hinge side of the spring set into position. Then put the jewel in and the the two fingers lock under the lips of the setting. They are usually pretty easy to maneuver in there with tweezers or peg wood, but I believe there is also a specific tool for them. Hover over it with the rodico while you do it, just in case.

Regards,
Steve
Thank you Steve, I kind of thought that might be the case - persistence and care ... I need to reflect on all the kind responses also which might assist,
Andy
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
To install the spring, the best way is to press the jewel setting out, then mount the spring in it, then press it back in. If you use a Horia tool or something that allows you to measure the height of the setting so you can return it to the same spot, that is ideal.

Cheers, Al
Thank you Al - I have had a look at the setting and I can see what you mean, the little bit of extra height would make the slot wider for the hinge - pressing jewel setting in / out is a task I've not done before although I have a basic staking set - it is not something I plan to do on this movement - but I will do in due course I'm sure. Thank you. As someone else has commented - it came out ... it must go back in! ;-)
Andy
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Though the safest way is to remove the setting as stated above. The real story is that if it can fall out, it can fall back in.
Message is, try to avoid any force. Other than gravity.
Thank you - that makes absolute sense - I have an engineering mind - I think I have other forces at play also - I think I need to properly clean and demagnetize my tweeezers and also the spring clip to rule anything out - when I release the hinge it isn't 'dropping' from the tweezers in any controlled way - not sure if it's static or weak magnetic forces at play, but it should move - persistence is key her I think :)
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
I have never pressed out a setting to replace a spring that has fallen out. The suggestion actually kind of baffles me because of what rb says: if it falls out it'll go right back in. It's really not unusual for them to come out. If you are having trouble putting it back, I can only assume it's because you can't see what you're doing. Do you have good quality, well dressed tweezers and a stereo microscope? I know I sound like a broken record, but if you don't have a stereo microscope you're shooting in the dark.
Hi Chris - thank you for the feedback - I do subscribe at present to the 'it fell out therefore it should go back in' ... at the right angle and location. I am struggling to see it - you're right - as I have a general purpose magnifying lamp and also a loup - I think x15 - but it isn't ideal. I have seriously thought about getting a stereo microscope for this work - I just haven't been able to justify the expense (although I can picture my wife's face when I suggest it would be a great christmas present for me! ;-) - so yes, that is probably going to make things easier ... along with a very steady hand. I did try and make a small jig to hold the hinge on a small piece of wood and some rodico so I could move it carefully into position relative to the case - but it just wasn't steady enough and the rodico was almost too soft to hold and position the hinge. As soon as it touch the plate it just pushed the hinge into the rodico .... anyway, I'll keep think it through and may reach out to friends locally to see if anyone happens to have a microscope perhaps. ... :) Thank you , Andy
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
I had the same problem before. Springs comming loose and even disapearing into "the black hole"......
Seems some are more prone to comming loose than others.

Nowdays I use a small piece of Rodico which I place over the hinge section before opening the spring.
Haven't had one coming loose since.
yep - agree it shouldn't happen and I was trying with the rodico ... something 'moved ' and that was it - doh!
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Well, he's spent 5 hours already trying to get it to "fall back in" so I don't think giving him an alternative is that out of place, but of course you are entitled to your opinions.

Pressing the setting out, mounting the spring, and pressing it back in takes about 2 minutes...

Cheers, Al
I think on this movement - not being a practise movement - I'm not able to do this yet, but it would be a good approach .. :)
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
In my early days of watchmaking I had one that came loose. I spent a lot of time trying to re-fit it only to realise I tried to fit it in the wrong direction. I thought I checked but for some reason I got it wrong.......

You could try to work inside a plastic bag. It will reduce the risk of the spring disapearing but does not eliminate it!
I have checked the orientation carefully and I'm 99.9% certain it's the right way around - unless it was installed incorrectly before! I do like the idea of a plastic bag - I did a different retaining spring - the circle ones with three prongs - before and I laid a piece of clingfilm over the top and actually worked it with a shaped piece of pegwood through the film - worked a treat! Not quite the same on this one but yes, agree, some kind of back-up barrier to reduce the risk of the 'ping' will be somethgin I'll work on ...thank you :)
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Yes. There is one way to fit it. If you fit it the other way, it will either continue to fall out or more likely, you'll break the spring when trying to open/close it.. The reason is that one side is the bearing point for the spring rather than the place where the spring can be opened easily..
yep - thank you - I think I am doing it the right way around - the photo shows the original location :) caution and persistence and maybe some vision aid / microscope are required I think ... :)
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Hmmmm... even though shock absorber springs are generally anoying, these are in fact not bad. IMO the type one has to rotate and remove are far worse.

In my ‚career’ whenever it falls out, I just slide the ‚hinge’ side back in and then lock the free endings in their notches. Never had any trouble with that, but then again I’ve never tried it in a Peseux movement ;)
Thank you again - yes I think the principle is sound, I just can't quite seem to get it lined up, in and settled and released from the tweezers or rodico ... I did manage to do the rotating ones once and I think if this one wasn't so fiddly, I would agree with you, they are pretty tricky but I managed it - but initially they simply 'lay' on top of the jewel - this is like trying to balance the clip on it's side next to the jewel and needs more of a steady hand! I'll have another go sometime over the next week or two. If no joy, microscope it is ...
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
I am truly humbled that I can post a fairly random question on here and get so much freely offered advice and support. I am an amateur I accept but I have enjoyed the last couple of years of assembling the tools and movements and just having a go - with books and websites and videos to aid. I wish I had more time to do more of it (full time employed with wife, kids and dog is not an easy mix!) I have stripped / serviced or played with about 15 movements I think - pocketwatches and watches - all cheap stuff - but really satisfying. This happens to be one of the few working watches I've serviced - but it's proving to be a real challenge! Once I get these two jewels back in, I'm confident it will all go together no problem and i've also for the first time used a timegrapher to baseline the movement before servicing - I can't wait to see if my hard work will be rewarded on that front! Thank you all :)
 

Skutt50

Registered User
Mar 14, 2008
3,960
286
83
Gothenburg
Country
Something struck me....... Sorry if I have missed something or if I am describing the obvious but......

You mad a comparison with KIF springs and you mention "initially they lay on top of the jewel!.

This is not the case with Incablock. They are removed (and installed) from the back so to say.
Imagine you open the spring and then flip it 180 degrees until it is flat in the other direction. Then you pull the spring out (towards the back). Insertion is of course done in reverse.

Here is a very poor film that sows how to remove the spring:

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Here is a better film showing how to instal an Incablock spring:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Landy50

roughbarked

Registered User
Dec 2, 2016
6,544
962
113
Western NSW or just this side of the black stump.
Country
Region
I am truly humbled that I can post a fairly random question on here and get so much freely offered advice and support. I am an amateur I accept but I have enjoyed the last couple of years of assembling the tools and movements and just having a go - with books and websites and videos to aid. I wish I had more time to do more of it (full time employed with wife, kids and dog is not an easy mix!) I have stripped / serviced or played with about 15 movements I think - pocketwatches and watches - all cheap stuff - but really satisfying. This happens to be one of the few working watches I've serviced - but it's proving to be a real challenge! Once I get these two jewels back in, I'm confident it will all go together no problem and i've also for the first time used a timegrapher to baseline the movement before servicing - I can't wait to see if my hard work will be rewarded on that front! Thank you all :)
We all want to help because at one time or other, we have all either lost or broken a spring. Once the knack is learned, You'll never lose another one.
Of course if you had these to practice on.. https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/stuff-i-find-in-boxes-rusting-away-in-my-shed.176658/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Landy50

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Something struck me....... Sorry if I have missed something or if I am describing the obvious but......

You mad a comparison with KIF springs and you mention "initially they lay on top of the jewel!.

This is not the case with Incablock. They are removed (and installed) from the back so to say.
Imagine you open the spring and then flip it 180 degrees until it is flat in the other direction. Then you pull the spring out (towards the back). Insertion is of course done in reverse.

Here is a very poor film that sows how to remove the spring:

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Here is a better film showing how to instal an Incablock spring:
Hi, thank you again - I think you might be on to something. In my head I'm developing your idea of laying it flat open and seeing if the slot is proud enough receive the clip hinge 80deg open - I suspect not ... but .. if I take a piece of watch paper and lay it on that, poss with a tiny bit of rco stuck on top for manipulation, I might be able to slide something under the paper and generate a very shallow angle down. It's risky with the paper but possibly if I can overcome the friction on the paper and tease it down the paper with a piece of pegwood (without the paper suddenly pinging it away!) - I'll do this in a bag It think - it might drop back in. I love the idea of removing the housing completely but I just don't have the tools to reset the height / end shake.
I'll let everyone know if I end up with a success! Thanks again, Andy
 

John Runciman

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Aug 13, 2003
531
94
28
Seattle, WA
Country
Region
I have never pressed out a setting to replace a spring that has fallen out. The suggestion actually kind of baffles me because of what rb says: if it falls out it'll go right back
if this was a Chinese clone your statement is 100% accurate it will go back in. But on some Swiss with on the dial side the spring will come out and it will defy logic and will not go back it. So yes logically it came out with no effort it should go back in with no effort but only if you get the exact right angle of however it came out. so on those extremely rare circumstances I know I've done it once in my entire life may be twice it really is easier to take the setting out to put it back together the way it's supposed to be and then put it all back in. That is providing you have the proper tools to do it.
 

DeweyC

NAWCC Member
Feb 5, 2007
2,578
1,151
113
Baltimore
www.historictimekeepers.com
Country
That is providing you have the proper tools to do it.
I think this is what the OP is learning (as did we all). It is almost by definition that our curiosity exceeds our ability to assess what we do not know. At that moment, we do not realize the time it took others to master the skills actually required.

Most of the things I learned in Life were a result of getting into trouble.
 
  • Like
Reactions: roughbarked

Dave Haynes

Registered User
Sep 12, 2000
1,332
19
38
After doing this stuff for a while, invest or steal a large magnet. Mine is a large heavy donut shaped one, like roofing companies drag around a house to pick up as many lost nails as possible. My bench is in a carpeted room, insanity for a watch bench. The magnet picks up everything in its path that is ferrous. You will find parts you lost years ago. It is essential to have a great demagnetizer for after finding. Mine is one of the Magnaflux ones from Troop-Balas. You place the item on the target and press the button works like a champ. Put balances and small parts in a piece of watch paper as they jump about an inch off the table when demagnetized.
 

Landy50

Registered User
Jul 18, 2020
24
1
3
51
Country
Hi to all - UPDATE - I DID IT!!!!!
I ended up going down the 'if you can see it you can do it' route and bought a simple SWIFT dissecting microscope on ebay for £100 (normally £150 - I've been considering this for a while) and it works like an absolute dream at x40 :) I also changed tack and put a tiny 'cone' of rodico on the end of a piece of pegwood. I was able to pick up the clip on the end of the rodico leaving the hinge showing, and under the microscope I was able to manipulate each side of the hinge pin into place and then gently pushed it over centre with a pin in the other hand to hold while I pullled the rodico back off - I would never have completed this without the microscope! Once it was laying in place, I used the same pegwood/rodico tip to gently hold jewel/clip in place while I pressed each side of the clip into place - voila! Now I can get on and reassemble the rest. Phew!. Thank you again to everyone for their helpful suggestions / ideas - I am humbled. I have been mulling it over for weeks in my head but been too busy with work etc to get everything out and have a go until today.
I'm not sure how this will show as a post but hopefully some of you will see it :)
Kind Regards
Andy
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris Radek

Forum statistics

Threads
169,694
Messages
1,481,171
Members
49,098
Latest member
Heresolong
Encyclopedia Pages
1,060
Total wiki contributions
2,965
Last update
-