Perry Take down

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by DeweyC, Jan 15, 2020.

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  1. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    This watch is the nicest Hampden I have had to date. The escapement is highly finished and includes radiused pallets. So it appears Cain was using these longe before the 16s Hamiltons. The staff and pallet arbor are very highly finished. The staff pivots are 13/100 mm. Gold balance screws as I would expect on a RRG; no timing screws and a flat balance spring.

    I was surprised to find a false plate with different serial number and an 1877 patent date. Also, you can see the mounts for the setting pinion have the correct batch number but the lower one is unfinished brass.

    I have seen pictures of other Hampdens with such features, including one private label. I am told the serial numbers match yet the barrel bridge is left in brass. Very curious but reveals something about early production maybe.

    In a similar vein, this Perry has a curious construction element in setting mechanism. If you look closely, you will see a screw set into the crown screw for the rocking setting lever. The crown screw is threaded for this screw; which is a grub screw that locks into a hole in the pillar plate. It basses thought the crown core.

    I am unsure of its purpose, but I can think of two. One is to set the proper endshake for the core, the other is to prevent the crown screw form unthreading in use.

    A photo shows the Perry pillar plate next to a later Hampden for comparison.

    This watch retained its Hampden dust band! First one I saw.

    Hampden Setting.JPG Perry Plate Locating hole.jpg Perry Setting Locating hole.jpg Dust Band Perry.JPG Cased Perry.JPG Dial Perry.JPG Perry Movt.JPG Perry Escapement.jpg Winding pinion colors.JPG Perry False Plate.JPG
     
  2. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    Dewey, here is the patent marked on the ratchet wheel cover/bridge/false plate
     
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  3. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Really nice Hampden, and very well photographed. Thanks for sharing. I've always liked that Teske(?) regulator where it looks like the regulator arm is being grabbed by a robotic hand and moved right or left. It's interesting that your "hand" has a rather diamond shape. I once owned a Hampden Lafette Special (Serial was in 600K range.) that had the same regulator, however its "hand" was round. That, and the index was of a rose-gold color. Cheers.
     
  4. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    The regulators with round "hands" are Teske regulators. The ones with diamond shaped "hands" are Tucker regulators. Hampden used both.

    1882_May-17_Teske_Regulator.jpg 1890_Jan_Tucker_Used_By_Hampden_TimeAntiquarian.jpg
     
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  5. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Missed putting this up.

    Perry Dial side.JPG
     
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  6. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Thanks for the clarification, Kent.

    BTW, my post should read "Lafayette", not Lafette. Geez, my finger/eye coordination just isn't what it used to be. Maybe I should cue the Three Stooges? :mallet:
     
  7. Nathan Moore

    Nathan Moore Registered User
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    I respectfully disagree. Both caliper variations are a Teske regulators. William Tucker attempted to capitalize on the success of the regulator, claiming his design was in use on over 400,000 Hampden movements. However, other than his own advertisement, no documentation has been discovered that supports this claim. Additionally, a close study of Tucker's 1867 patent application reveals his regulator design is fundamentally different, requiring a key to adjust.

    In contrast, documentation supports that Teske secured a contract with Hampden in 1881 to license his regulator. This is around the time we see the angled caliper design initially fitted on Hampden movements. According to reports of Teske's lawsuit against Hampden in 1890, it appears that Hampden breached several aspects of the agreement including royalties not being properly paid and the fact the regulator was not directly attributed to Teske in production and publications.

    Around the time of the lawsuit, Tucker's advertisement claiming his "improved patent watch regulator" was in use on over 400,000 Hampden movements began to appear. Since it seems as though Tucker copied the regulator design and marketed it as his own, it is plausible that one might find Tucker imitation regulators on movements. Though, the vast majority of Hampden movements with this design, especially manufactured in the 1880s, should be attributed to Teske (as the inventor was original promised).


    Article reporting Teske secured a contract for his regulator, published in the Hartford Courant, 22 Nov 1881:

    TeskeContract-1881.png

    Article about Teske's lawsuit against Hampden, published in the Hartford Courant, 23 Dec 1890:

    TeskeLawsuit.png

    Teske advertisement including the angled caliper variation, published a May 1886 issue of the Jewelers' Circular. (I believe this was originally sourced by Greg Frauenhoff).

    "The Hampden Watch Company is the only party licensed by us to use any of these Caliper Shaped Jaws and to sell these Regulators on their Movements."

    TeskeRegulators-1886.png

     
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  8. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Is there any documentation showing that Teske used the diamond-shaped caliper?
     
  9. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Fascinating!

    Thanks Both.
     
  10. Nathan Moore

    Nathan Moore Registered User
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    Great question.

    During my research, I have not encountered any regulators with the angled ("diamond") caliper design that could be indisputably attributed to Teske (nor Tucker, for that matter). All evidence indicates that the regulators Teske produced independently for fitting on other American movements always featured the round caliper design.

    However, Teske's 1886 advertisement (attached above) illustrates the angled calipers and states the Hampden Watch Company is the only company licensed to use any of the caliper shaped jaws. So, one might conclude that the angled caliper design was utilized exclusively by Hampden, perhaps to distinguish them from Teske's standard design.

    Teske was also awarded a patent in 1889 that seems to be an attempt to improve his regulator and account for any and all caliper designs, including the familiar angled ("diamond") shape.

    Patent Watch Regulator by Charles Teske Issued Mar 5, 1889

    US398987-0.png
     
  11. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    When you think about it,even given the "early" state of US Patent Law, it seems odd the USPTO would protect two patents that differ only in an aesthetic sense (round vs diamond shaped "claw").

    So now I wonder (after reading your newspaper clips) if Tucker was a snake oil salesman who misrepresented the regulator to Hampden and sold them rights he did not have? Hence Teske's suit which was apparently resolved in his favor since he went on to allow Hampden use of his invention?

    Great stuff.
     
  12. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    I looked that ad over twice before asking my question. I didn't see any diamond-shaped calipers. Nor did I see any on the third pass after reading your post #10. I did notice that Nos. 5 & 6 appear different from the circular design illustrated elsewhere in the ad, but they don't appear to be diamond-shaped.

    Yes, I agree that Teske's 1889 patent nails down his claim for the possibility of using diamond-shaped calipers. I just wish that there was something concrete on the subject earlier in the decade.
     
  13. Nathan Moore

    Nathan Moore Registered User
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    No worries. Unfortunately, this scan is a bit rough. I have highlighted the area that illustrates the angled calipers next to the note regarding licensing to the Hampden Watch Company.

    TeskeRegulators-1886-highlighted.jpg

    (I have attempted to find a better scan of this advertisement without success).

    This provides support in 1886 that Teske was still licensing his patent regulator to Hampden and the caliper variations are considered protected by his 1875 patent.

    As he claims, the 1875 patent documentation indicates "the caliper shape, or an equivalent shape" would be protected. Though, I suppose "an equivalent shape" would be left to interpretation.

    I revisit this research every year or so to see if new information has become available, hoping for something more concrete as well. The current evidence supports that Teske was licensing his regulator design to Hampden from November 1881 to at least 1886. By 1890, the relationship had soured, and Teske sued the company, claiming several elements of the contract had been breached.

    For relevant context, John C. Dueber purchased a controlling interest in the Hampden Watch Company in 1886, and moved the factory to Canton, Ohio in 1888.

    There is certainly more to this story.
     
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  14. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    If anyone is interested, this thread has additional info on the Tucker/Teske regulator question/confusion.

    Tucker/Teske Regulators
     
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  15. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Nathan:

    Thanks for pointing it out to me.
     
  16. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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