Perivale movement

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi,

I need some help putting back my perivale movement, I believe I have all the parts but need some help in where to put them.

I have attached a picture for ref

Thanks

Neil

20140222_113253.jpg
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Update to above post.....

I have now put the movement together and the chime part runs and the hammer srtikes all good .. the ticker part winds up but does not tick ..!! I do not have the pendulum is this needed for the clock to run ? Also there seems to be a piece left over , I have no idea where this goes.... help

20140222_141634.jpg
 

harold bain

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Yes, it won't run without the pendulum. All you can do is move the crutch back and forth to see if the escapewheel has power to move.
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Update.....

I have found that it is the suspendion spring.. broken. Ordered a new one from the interweb. Cant seem to find a suspension arm though that is missing .. any ideas ?
 

wow

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Śhow us a photo of the back side of the movement, and we can perhaps help you figure out what leader you need.
Will
 

shutterbug

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Maybe Timesavers # 12267? You might end up having to make one.
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi Peter,

That would be great if you have, I have been out today to an antiques farm but found no clock spares or suspension arms/pendulums .. most frustrating.
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi Peter,

Yes I need a pendulum also, I will msg you with my address.

Thanks alot

Neil
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi Peter,

Many thanks for all your help, I look forward to hopefully having a working Granddaughter clock this weekend, I'll let you know .. thanks again
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi

I have assembled the clock with the new parts supplied by Peter(thanks) wound it up , positioned the hand to the correct place and set the pendulum off, the clock runs as long as the initial swing.. about 14 tickety tocks and then gently stops...

Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers Neil

20140228_153550.jpg
 

Randy Beckett

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May 23, 2012
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I got 2 top guesses.

1.The clock is not perfectly in beat. These English movements are of good quality but not very forgiving to beat adjustments.
Read and understand Beat Setting 101 here: https://mb.nawcc.org/showwiki.php?title=Beat_Setting_101

2. If the clock is in beat, the verge may not be adjusted correctly. The verge should be lowered to the point that it will lock up the escape wheel, then raised only enough to release it. Best to make this adjustment with the mainspring power removed and supplying a little hand power through the train.
 

Eckytock

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Don't know whether you got it covered but in the photo of your first post there is a clock pin holding the spider onto the centre wheel. The spider is usually held on by a wire formed into an "S" shape around the arbour. The thick end of a clock pin could be touching the back plate as it turns (not often that easy).
I have a couple of perivale movements with original pendulums which have longer hook shafts. The top of the bob is almost level with the bottom of the back plate. This should not be a problem getting the clock to tick as it should run without a pendulum, but much too fast.
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi,

Right here we go.. with some terminology....

When I move the pendulum leaver back and for the pallets do engage with the escape wheel, but there doesn't seem to be much movement and not really a tick tock sound. Im doing this to try and set the "heartbeat"...

I have extended the pendulum as far as it can go, the bob is almost below the backplate - but the clock now tick tocks longer but still stops......

Im wondering if everything is connected correctly in the movement, Does anyone have some diagrams or pictures of the movement minus the backplate - as maybe some part might be missing as when I got the clock the back was in bits and I only put back together what was there.

Thanks

Neil
 
Last edited:

harold bain

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It likely was taken apart because it didn't work. Putting it back together didn't correct the problem.
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Here's where I am at now, after further investigation, when I removed the pallet from the EW the clock runs on it own - I have cleaned the cogs and oiled the parts, now when I have installed it back in the clock and attached the suspension arm and pendulum - Guess what .. yet again it will not tick tock... I am at a loss.

N.B May this be down to the suspension arm and pendulum not being an original perivale parts - as I think now that the movement is probably ok

Neil
 

shutterbug

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Removing the pallets is a good test - but it needs to be controlled. With the EW free to spin, hold it with your thumb and release it, then repeat several times. The EW response should be immediate and robust - starting to turn as soon as it's released, every time. If that's happening, then perhaps the other escapement components will be suspect.
 

Journeyman

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Feb 12, 2007
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Hi Neil

The fact that it may not be the original pendulum will not make any difference the clock should still run the only exception to that would be if the pendulum was massively heavy and the impulse from the escape wheel was insufficient to keep the pendulum moving.

looking at your photo the pendulum leader looks ok there should be a little "play" where the crutch comes through the pendulum leader also this should be lightly lubricated.

Firstly I would remove the pallet and put a little power on the going side and with an eyeglass (loupe) look into the oil sinks and make sure the pivots are running true especially on the 3rd wheel and pinion and the escape/4th wheel and pinion, these pivots are quite soft and are easily bent when re-assembling these movements.

If all is ok then it must be down to pallet adjustment and beat setting, as stated before lower the pallet into the scape wheel until the wheel wont pass with the pallet clock screws just nipped up slowly lift the pallet clock keeping it parallel
until the scape wheel teeth pass making sure to check over a full revolution of the scape wheel, you need to be sure all the teeth pass safely with the minimum drop possible to get maximum impulse to the pendulum.

Randy gave you a link for setting in beat, if all this is done clock should run.

Peter
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi All,

I have now managed to get the clock working on its own with the suspension arm attached and its happily ticking away... but when I attached the pendulum the movement then stops.. I think from reading the 101 is this down now to getting the beat correct ? I feel I am so close....

Ta

Neil
 

Randy Beckett

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May 23, 2012
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Hi Neil,

Your movements ability to run on it's own or to power the escape wheel is a far cry from it being able to supply enough power to run properly with the pendulum. Right now I'm leaning with Harold that there is a power deficiency, however stay with the beat setting until you are sure it is right. If it still won't run, do this test, it's not 100% accurate but works the vast majority of the time. Completely unwind and relax the mainspring, then wind it 1 click at a time and rock the crutch by hand, watching the escape wheel. Make note of the first time the escape wheel moves on it's own. If all is well, I would say it should be around 1/4 turn of power.
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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Hi Randy,

I have done what you have suggested (twice) and the clock starts ticking on its own by the 2nd/3rd click, so does this point to the mainspring being fine and the clock having enough power ?

Cheers

Neil
 

shutterbug

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Hi Randy,

I have done what you have suggested (twice) and the clock starts ticking on its own by the 2nd/3rd click, so does this point to the mainspring being fine and the clock having enough power ?

Cheers

Neil
Nothing to do with the spring, Neil. On a full wind, even a very bad spring will power the clock. Randy was suggesting his method as a test of the overall health of the train. That's where the power problem probably is.
 

Randy Beckett

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Hi Randy,

I have done what you have suggested (twice) and the clock starts ticking on its own by the 2nd/3rd click, so does this point to the mainspring being fine and the clock having enough power ?

Cheers

Neil
Hi Neil,

A movement that is in good condition will pass this test with similar results to yours, however it is not an absolute indicator that your movement is fine, but it should rule out possibilities such as lack of end play on pivots. Sometimes wear can cause a gear to bottom out in a pinion and it will actually bind worse with increased power. You need to inspect at all your pivot holes for wear and this is how. With the mainspring relaxed, put pressure on the the mainspring barrel and try to turn it, first one way and then the other, while looking at each pivot hole on both the front and back plates. If you see one moving back and forth ANY, this is likely your problem.


Randy
 

mambobob

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Mar 28, 2013
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So whats the next step, I have now purchased the proper suspension arm and pendulum so all is as it should be, but still no running clock, what do you mean by the power train, does this now involve taking the movement to bits and cleaning and making sure all cogs are seated correctly ?

Cheers

Neil
 

shutterbug

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So whats the next step, I have now purchased the proper suspension arm and pendulum so all is as it should be, but still no running clock, what do you mean by the power train, does this now involve taking the movement to bits and cleaning and making sure all cogs are seated correctly ?

Cheers

Neil
Yes, I'm afraid so Neil. Do what Randy suggested in his last post. If you see back and forth movement in any of the pivots, you'll have to take it apart. It looks scarier than it is :)
 

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