Pendulum Scraping Dial

belewfripp

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This past weekend I performed my first full disassembly, cleaning, reassembly and oiling of a clock I purchased a while back (a weight-driven Jerome Ogee with brass parts, c. 1845-ish from the label). It had some issues - a broken pulley rope that had gotten wedged between the teeth of two gears; a verge and escape wheel that couldn't play nice even after the pulley rope was sorted out; and it didn't strike.

I'm happy to say the clock is now 95% running as it should save for one remaining issue: the verge/pendulum rod combo scrapes against the dial. When it swings, the arc does not appear to be noticeably distorted. The dial is affixed at the top with what I take to be the original metal hooks/braces but on the bottom by two screws, which I take not to be original as my other Jerome Ogees are all held in place by little brackets/hooks and not screws.

I have thought about adding a couple of brackets/thick staples turned with the open side up for the base of the dial to rest on, as i believe being screwed in (and thus closer to the movement than originally intended) is what is causing the rod to scrape, but that is just speculation. Thoughts? You can see from the dial the screw holes punched into it are not level with each other, so I doubt they are original to the dial. Thinking of putting the staples/brackets a bit below where the screw holes are now.

20220802_105043.jpg 20220802_125658.jpg 20220802_125714.jpg
 

bkerr

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Try moving the movement back a bit further either with the seat board or move the movement back on the seat board. This should get you enough clearance.
 

wow

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Will the movement mount further back on the board? If so. That should help.

We posted together , Bkerr.
 

shutterbug

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It might be a shadow, but the suspension spring bar looks like it was replaced. If so, they added one too short. That wouldn't be too hard to replace, even if you had to make one.
 
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Willie X

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If it comes down to it, a lot of ills can
be cured with small shims made from popsicle sticks, cereal box paper, etc.

A pair of thin felt disc, on the front or back feet, can be useful too. A small dot of glue makes the shims semi permanent.

Shim on, Willie X
 
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demoman3955

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I had that problem on a wall clock, and it turned out the hanger mounted to the wall was too far out from the wall making the clock lean. It didnt take me long to figure that out, but it never occurred to me that that could be an issue.
 

demoman3955

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Not sure if this is a problem, but after i looked closer to the pictures, i noticed the front plate of the movement is hanging off the wood mount and all my clocks have both plates resting on the top of the wood. I cant say ive ever seen that in any clocks ive looked at. If the movement was totally resting on the top of the wood, that would give you at least 1.4 inch more clearance.
 

belewfripp

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Thank you everyone for your responses. I will see if the movement can move further back on the board - the seat board itself is as far back as it will go. It does seem as if the movement is overlapping the edge of the seat board a bit, though, and maybe if unbolted could be moved up and back.

I don't know if the suspension bar was replaced or not; but I will look into that as another possible solution. If all else fails, I will look into adjusting with some makeshift shims.
 

belewfripp

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Not sure if this is a problem, but after i looked closer to the pictures, i noticed the front plate of the movement is hanging off the wood mount and all my clocks have both plates resting on the top of the wood. I cant say ive ever seen that in any clocks ive looked at. If the movement was totally resting on the top of the wood, that would give you at least 1.4 inch more clearance.
Thanks - your message had not been posted when I was typing my reply. Yes, I do see that now, as well - it was actually like that when I first got it, so I assumed it should be that way (though I am quickly learning not to make those kinds of assumptions with old clocks!). Looking at my others more closely, they are resting on the seat board, so I'm guessing that is the issue.
 
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demoman3955

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Thanks - your message had not been posted when I was typing my reply. Yes, I do see that now, as well - it was actually like that when I first got it, so I assumed it should be that way (though I am quickly learning not to make those kinds of assumptions with old clocks!). Looking at my others more closely, they are resting on the seat board, so I'm guessing that is the issue.
would be nice to be right about something, seeing as how i dont have a lot of knowlage. lol
 
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Willie X

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belle,

Are you aware that the seat board is held in place by two headless nails at each side? And you may have more than one set of holes for these nails in the seat board.

I would think the seatboard needs to be moved forward about 1/4" and the movement itself needs to go back onto the seat board about 1/8". This will make your movement upright and may help your clearance problem. If not, adjust as
necessary.

Willie X
 

belewfripp

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So, I took another look at this one. I determined after looking at my other Ogees again that one of the others is also situated with the front/back lip of the movement plates stationed about a quarter of an inch down the seat board. This particular seat board and movement appear to have been designed specifically to sit that way, based on the shape of the seat board:

20220803_153715.jpg

The notch 3/4 of the way back is where the back of the movement fits over the seat board. And although it may have been held in place at one time by nails,. it moves freely in and out now. What I did end up doing was remounting the movement on the seat board and changing the degree to which the back of the movement is propped up by the bolt holding the top of the movement to the back of the case (I added a small washer to lift it up/push it forward just a little bit more) and then made sure the seat board was all the way back, as it had slid forward.

Lastly, I made sure the two hooks holding the movement to the seat board were fully tightened. They had been a bit loose, which allowed the force from the weights to pull the movement forward slightly. I wound up changing the size of screw inserted in the holes in the dial, as well, to a smaller head. The pendulum now swings freely with the dial attached, with no issue. Problem seemingly solved.
 
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Willie X

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There is supposed to be two headless nails that go into those holes at each side of your seat board. This locates the seat board in the correct position. As stated in post #11. The right size finishing nail (made to the correct length) can make a good replacement. It should be a good friction fit. Willie X
 
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belewfripp

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There is supposed to be two headless nails that go into those holes at each side of your seat board. This locates the seat board in the correct position. As stated in post #11. The right size finishing nail (made to the correct length) can make a good replacement. It should be a good friction fit. Willie X
I'm sure the holes are still there - I'll take a look and see if I can't get it nailed back into place.
 

Willie X

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It's kinda like a nail but more of a location pin. You grasp it using long nose pliers (in the seat-board hole) push it out into the weight well and pull it out from there, using the same pliers. These pins are important, but often go missing. Willie X
 
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belewfripp

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I located the holes in the seat board and replaced the missing pins with a couple of brass pins, so the movement and seat board are now fully-secured. The pendulum rod and verge crutch (pretty sure that's what was actually scraping against the back of the dial) continue to have full clearance.

I'm unfortunately having a couple of other issues now with the same clock, but since they are unrelated, going to start a new thread. Thanks for the help.
 

Willie X

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Nothing wrong with brass but the pins need to be untapered and reasonably tight. If loose they will work out into the weight well and cause the weight to hang up. Willie X
 

belewfripp

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Nothing wrong with brass but the pins need to be untapered and reasonably tight. If loose they will work out into the weight well and cause the weight to hang up. Willie X
They are tight and fully cylindrical (not like the pins holding the plates together).
 

belewfripp

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It might be a shadow, but the suspension spring bar looks like it was replaced. If so, they added one too short. That wouldn't be too hard to replace, even if you had to make one.
Wanted to jump in and thank you for this information. I've mostly been concerned with the strike train (detailed in a separate thread), but a side issue was that though the clock runs and seems to be in beat - and no longer scrapes the dial - no matter how I lowered the pendulum ball the clock ran too fast.

I remedied this issue by replacing the suspension spring bar and pendulum rod with a longer one, which solved that problem.
 
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kinsler33

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Note also that wooden parts can distort with age to the point where it looks like they were contributed by a cartoonist. It's pretty amazing.
 

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