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Help Pendulum clock chimes 15+ times

Dad&MomsClocks

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Hello, My name is Stacey this is the first time I am posting. I do not know very much about clocks. My parents have a few clocks and I am trying to help get 2 of them going again. Both were in a repair shop for a very long time and we don't want to do that again.
This clock was doing fine for about 8 months and then it started stopping, I couldn't seem to get the beat right. Then suddenly after trying to adjust it again, it kept going. When we wound it, it started chiming 15+ chimes on the hour and half hour. I opened it up and looked online to try to figure out what might be the problem. In my pictures the Blue arrow is to show the mechanism that doesn't seem to go all the back even at 12:00. It just goes back about 4 clicks. then... The red arrow is to show the spot where the mechanism seems to drop off and the clock keeps chiming. I don't know if there is something broken or missing. I can send different pictures if needed. Any help will be appreciated as I would love to get this running for my parents.
Thank you
Stacey IMG-0900.JPG Clock#1.jpg
 

Vernon

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Hello Stacey,
The rack (with all of the teeth) may be bent. There should be a hook about where your red arrow is. This hook is meant to drop into the spaces between the teeth as the gathering pallet (the round part with the 3 pins) gathers the rack. Once the rack is gathered, the hook drops over the end of the rack and the striking will stop. I may be way off since I'm not familiar with this particular movement.
It is hard to see from the photos as there is more background lighting.
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Hello Stacey,
The rack (with all of the teeth) may be bent. There should be a hook about where your red arrow is. This hook is meant to drop into the spaces between the teeth as the gathering pallet (the round part with the 3 pins) gathers the rack. Once the rack is gathered, the hook drops over the end of the rack and the striking will stop. I may be way off since I'm not familiar with this particular movement.
It is hard to see from the photos as there is more background lighting.
Thank you for responding. I am adding more pictures and I also have a video to add. On the new picture with a red arrow, that little wire Was off so I hooked it back on, but I was guessing how it went. I tried to find pictures on internet.

D92FA7E3-267F-4EFA-BC19-1A500F726AAA.jpeg 4AB66ED0-5217-4301-9102-1C1B78338A3A.jpeg 4DA04436-3C06-4D75-94EB-D2B41FDE2F0B.jpeg
 

Vernon

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YouTube your video, make it public and post the link here.
 

shutterbug

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Your blue arrow points to what we call the gathering pallet. To me, it sounds like your pallet is not in the optimal position to synchronize with the rack hook, which holds the rack (tooth) in position. You could try turning it a little, and see if that helps. It should gather one tooth, and then the hook drops down to hold things while the pallet spins around for the next tooth.
 

disciple_dan

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Question: Is the rack spring-loaded toward the snail and the gathering pallet pins are pushing against the spring power while the pallet pins hold it in check?
 

Vernon

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It appears that the warn lever is not catching the pin on the warning wheel to stop the strike. This would be the y shaped lever they straddles the gathering pallet. It looks adjustable.
 

shutterbug

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The hook hangs at the end of the rack. See if you can press it down by hand, and whether that stops the strike.
 

Mike Phelan

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It appears that the warn lever is not catching the pin on the warning wheel to stop the strike. This would be the y shaped lever they straddles the gathering pallet. It looks adjustable.
In that case - is your striking exactly on the hour, or about 5 minutes earlier? If so, it would keep striking until the spring ran down completely.
I'd go for something like the rack hook not falling completely or the rack not contacting the snail properly.
 

Smee

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Hello,
Pushing it straight down doesn't seem to stop it, however if I push it straight back (lightly) then it stops.
I know this might sound strange, but when I got my grandpa's clock going the hand nut that was on it was not correct and wouldn't tighten the hands to the mechanism properly. I had the same issue with continually gonging too many times. As soon as I put the correct hand nut on and tightened it down, the correct gonging has happened everytime since. Don't know if this will help but might be something to consider
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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I know this might sound strange, but when I got my grandpa's clock going the hand nut that was on it was not correct and wouldn't tighten the hands to the mechanism properly. I had the same issue with continually gonging too many times. As soon as I put the correct hand nut on and tightened it down, the correct gonging has happened everytime since. Don't know if this will help but might be something to consider
Thank you! I will appreciate it and will look at that!
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Regarding my last post, before I did anything, I realized that now the rack isn't moving. I must have done something when I was "lightly" pushing in what I think is the hook.
Does anyone have any thoughts?
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Regarding my last post, before I did anything, I realized that now the rack isn't moving. I must have done something when I was "lightly" pushing in what I think is the hook.
Does anyone have any thoughts?
I am not sure if I should start a new post, or continue here, However, I could really use some advise on this clock! I had the clock sitting and balanced. It tipped forward and I caught it. The minute hand did get bent.I straightened the minute hand and now nothing works. I can spin the minute hand slowly around and the only thing that happens is that the hook lifts. The rack doesn’t move, the gather pallet doesn’t move, the strike doesn’t move. I don’t understand what happened.
any advise would be appreciated!
Thank you
Stacey
 

Vernon

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Looking at your past photos, the strike is pretty much unwound. Wind the springs and see if that gets it going.
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Looking at your past photos, the strike is pretty much unwound. Wind the springs and see if that gets it going.
Wow! Thank you so much! I didn’t even think of that… now back to chiming wrong amount of strikes.
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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What number of blows does it strike when it should be: 11, 12, 1 and 2?
It doesn’t seem to matter. At the top of the hour it starts striking and will strike continuously for about 20 minutes. At the 1/2 hour, it will start striking and will strike continuously for about 20 minutes.
 

Vernon

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When not at the hour nor half hour, the rack hook should be in the down position at the end of the rack. In this position, there should be (as an extension of the hook) a finger that will catch a pin on the side of a wheel to keep the strike wheels still. About 2 min. or so before the hour and half hour, a lever will lift and release that pin only to be caught by another lever and hold it (warn) AND the rack will drop. No striking yet but it is all set. At the top and bottom of the hour, that second lever then releases the pin and allows the strike. Striking continues until the hook reaches the end of the rack and drops once again catching the pin (with that extension/finger thus stopping the strike wheels. There might be two separate wheels each with a pin doing the start and stop.
You can slow the strike speed by touching the fan and observe what's going on. Something may be worn, bent or missing.

Good luck, Vernon
 

tracerjack

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If you lightly lift up the edge circled in orange will that stop the strike? There should be a pin on a wheel that hits the flat plate on the end of the arm to stop the strike. If lifting it does stop the strike, then it appears the rivet circled in blue might have allowed the arm to slip down. Looks as if the arm could be pushed up. However, if lifting the edge doesn't stop the strike, I wouldn't do any adjustments to it just yet until the actual problem is identified.
IMG-0900.JPG
 
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shutterbug

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A video of what is happening would sure help. Post to Youtube and link here for us.
 

tracerjack

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A video of what is happening would sure help. Post to Youtube and link here for us.
There is a video in post #8. It shows the rack is fully gathered and the rack hook in place, but the train doesn’t stop. The stop pin is in the wheel, from the second video in post #9, so I suspect the stop detent isn’t in the right position.
 

Mike Phelan

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It doesn’t seem to matter. At the top of the hour it starts striking and will strike continuously for about 20 minutes. At the 1/2 hour, it will start striking and will strike continuously for about 20 minutes.
In that case it probably strikes until it reaches the start of the warning sequence ready for the next strike ...
 

Mike Phelan

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... so there is something wrong with the warning lever as TJ will have said - the detent on the warning lever is missing the pin on the wheel.
I wonder what the end of the lever, where it is raised from the cannon pinion looks like? Maybe a pic of this with the hour wheel removed would be good.
 

tracerjack

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If you open the video in YouTube, you can change the speed of the video with the gear icon in the top right corner. In slow motion, you can then see the pin in the wheel spinning around, but not hitting the rack hook detent. The pin is also visible in this photo. But, there is a second pinned wheel next to it, so it may be that one is not hitting a detent like it should. I think Vernon suggest this in post # 10.
4DA04436-3C06-4D75-94EB-D2B41FDE2F0B.jpeg
 
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Dad&MomsClocks

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In regards to post #24 -Tracerjack, Yes, if I lift that lever circled in orange, it does stop the strike. I do not know how to adjust the rivet, would you be willing to tell me how to do this?
In regards to post # 28 Mike Phelan, so far I haven't taken anything apart except to take off the hands. I believe that is where the hour wheel is located right behind the snail? I tried to take the snail off but I was afraid I would break it if I tried to pull to hard. I would be happy to remove this if you could tell me how, please.
 

tracerjack

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You might be able to hold the portion to the left of the rivet while you apply upward force with your thumb on the portion to the right of the rivet. If you can’t get a good grip on it while in place, you can remove the black, C shaped clip on the brass sleeve that is below the green circle. Pull the clip off, and the whole lever should slip off the post. It may take some maneuvering to get it off. Once off, you should be able to get a better grip on it and move the upper arm slightly upward simply by pushing it. It would be nice if you could move the arm while the lever is in place, because then you could easily check if you moved it enough or too much. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it right. If bending things is out of your comfort zone, you’ll need to take it to a professional.
 

Mike Phelan

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I haven't taken anything apart except to take off the hands. I believe that is where the hour wheel is located right behind the snail? I tried to take the snail off but I was afraid I would break it if I tried to pull to hard. I would be happy to remove this if you could tell me how, please.
OK - earwig-oh, as they say. The hour wheel is indeed attached to the snail so to remove it, the former needs to come off. It's will he held on by a washer and some sort of a clip which is held in place by the minute wheel; this is the wheel next to the hour wheel/snail.

To remove it, you'll need to turn the hands so the snail isn't covering up the minute wheel, and we'll see what happens then.
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Thank you both so much! I have taken things apart and attached pictures. I do not mind bending things, however, I could not even budge the lever. I tried using 2 large tweezer and pulling the 2 levers apart, no luck. so I am attaching pics of front and back. I am trying to put a video on you tube. will let you know if I succeed!

IMG-7079.jpg IMG-7076.jpg IMG-7074.jpg IMG-7070.jpg IMG-7069.jpg IMG-7067.jpg IMG-7065.jpg IMG-7064.jpg
 

tracerjack

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I think you will need more leverage than what tweezers can provide. I’d be using pliers. One on each side of the rivet.
 

shutterbug

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I think your video is upside down, but the rack hook is not holding the rack in place. You might just need to turn the gathering pallet on its arbor until it does.
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Y
I think your video is upside down, but the rack hook is not holding the rack in place. You might just need to turn the gathering pallet on its arbor until it does.
The video is sideways, And it is laying on its back. I apologize for that! I did’t even think of how that may look.
Thank you though, I will give that a try as well!
 

tracerjack

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I think your video is upside down, but the rack hook is not holding the rack in place. You might just need to turn the gathering pallet on its arbor until it does.
In that last video, the rack hook isn't on the movement. It was taken off to try and spread the arms.
IMG-7069.jpg
 
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Vernon

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The end of the lever just removed (circled) looks like it has quite a bit of wear. This could be part the issue. The pin could have some damage too.

InkedIMG-7065_LI.jpg
 

tracerjack

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The end of the lever just removed (circled) looks like it has quite a bit of wear. This could be part the issue. The pin could have some damage too.

View attachment 672070
Good detecting. Perhaps the rack hook should be put back, then when the strike begins, slow the fan down with finger pressure. With things slowed down, perhaps then the OP can see why the pin is not caught when the last tooth is gathered.
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Ok, I have linked a new video that I did without the hour hand, snail in place. In the photo, I circled in red, the area I have a question about.
I am not sure if this is doing the correct thing.It seems that the clock continues sticking until this moves around which takes about 10-minutes or so.

BF1A10FD-99D8-4D08-B9ED-4912F7135935.jpeg
 

tracerjack

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I would assume that is the warning run you are seeing. When the star arm begins to lift the lifter before the hour, it releases the strike train, the rack will drop, the fan will turn a bit and wheels will rotate a small amount then be stopped. That is what is called the "warning run". Once the lifter arm drops completely off the star arm, the strike will begin and the rack will be lifted until caught by the rack hook. Usually the strike train is held up for only about 5 minutes, but ten is still within range. I didn't see a link for your newest video.
 

Mike Phelan

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Ok, I have linked a new video that I did without the hour hand, snail in place. In the photo, I circled in red, the area I have a question about.
I am not sure if this is doing the correct thing.It seems that the clock continues sticking until this moves around which takes about 10-minutes or so.

View attachment 674026
When you say it's sticking, what actually sticks? The rack? I assume that the clock continues to keep going all this time. The part you've circled is called the "cannon pinion" BTW.
 

tracerjack

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The video would tell whether it was striking or sticking,. I thought it was sticking, because the cannon pinion was circled. The strike would “stick” in warning, but I could have misunderstood.
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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The video would tell whether it was striking or sticking,. I thought it was sticking, because the cannon pinion was circled. The strike would “stick” in warning, but I could have misunderstood.
Thank you everyone! The word should have been "striking", sorry about that. Here is the link to the video. I didn't realize it didn't attach...


Thank you everyone for you interest and help!
 

shutterbug

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Your rack hook is not catching and holding the rack as it gathers. Also, it appears that your gathering pallet is not in the right place so it's holding the rack up, preventing it from falling. Get those two things straightened out and you should be good to go. Those three pin gathering pallets are hard to get right :)
 

Dad&MomsClocks

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Your rack hook is not catching and holding the rack as it gathers. Also, it appears that your gathering pallet is not in the right place so it's holding the rack up, preventing it from falling. Get those two things straightened out and you should be good to go. Those three pin gathering pallets are hard to get right :)
Shutterbug, thank you! so, I have attached a picture that I put labels on to what I think you are referring to. I am so knew to this I just want to be sure I am looking at the right things.
Also, would you be willing to possibly explain how to adjust or straighten out these things? I am willing to take things apart and adjust items, I just am not sure exactly how or what is ok to take apart.? I did purchase a book, however, unfortunately, it hasn't been much help. I appreciate help!
Thank you

clock labels.jpg
 

tracerjack

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Yes, the pin on the gathering pallet is preventing the rack from dropping. So, it shouldn’t strike at all or only once. It continues to strike because the pinned wheel is not being properly caught. There is no warn run, and the strike continues on both the hour and half hour even though the rack is fully gathered. It continues to strike until the star arm lifts the lifter high enough to catch the pin on the detent. Until you fix the lifter, I don't think you need to move the gathering pallet.
drop off.jpg In this screen capture, the lifter has dropped off the star arm, but the rack hook is in place, so only one strike should occur since it is at the half hour. The detent circled in red is too low to capture the pinned wheel
rack not dropping.jpg In this one, the rack hook is lifted, but the rack is being prevented from dropping by the pin on the gathering pallet. The lifter detent is now holding the pinned wheel because the star arm has lifted it high enough.
needs to be.jpg In this one, when the lower arm of the lifter is in this position, the detent on the upper arm should be higher so that it can catch the red circled pin on the wheel. That may not be the actual pin, but a pin like that will be on that wheel.
That's my take on this. It is an unusual arrangement. I can't identify how the detent is kept out of the way for each rack tooth that is lifted, since none of the videos show the rack actually dropping. The rack appears to be moved by a spring to the right, rather than dropping by gravity.
 
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