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Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Dolf, May 5, 2017.
Hello here some pics of my Grivolas Clock[/ATTACH]
Welcome to the message boards! That's one of the unusual clocks...appears to be plate 1471A in the repair guide. Does the clock currently run?
Dolf, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for posting the photos of your Grivolas clock. As a matter of interest, I have been following your clock on the internet for almost seven years as it has been sold from one owner to another. Congratulations on acquiring it, as there are some unusual features that I will cover in this discussion.
Firstly, based on the serial number No. B.12-3703-7 your clock was made in May 1912. The unusual serial number can be understood as follows:
* The "B" represents the movement series, of which there were three: "A", from 1906 to 1910; "B" for 1911 through 1912; and "C" for 1913 through 1914. Each series has different plate layouts and features, only the "B" series is shown in the Repair Guide as Plate 1471A. In fact there are three versions of series "A" related to the markings on the plates and the presence or absence of openings for pallet inspection.
* The "12" is the year the movement was made. The years documented to date are 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. Note that no clocks with these movements were made in 1907, evidently because of a patent dispute with Kienzle in Germany over the use of pallet inspection holes. This must have been resolved late that year, as production resumed in early 1908.
* The "3703" is the sequential serial number that started with "1" when the first Grivolas round plate movement was made near the beginning of 1906, and continued through the end of production in late 1914. A total of about 6,000 of these round plate movement clocks were made.
* The "7" is a batch number related to the fact that Grivolas made sets of nine plates simultaneously, with each plate in the batch stamped sequentially "0, 1, 2, 3, through 8". This has been statistically and factually documented. With regard to the batch series for this clock, the serial number of the first clock in this batch was B.12-3696-0, the last was B.12-3704-8. The next batch repeated the series.
The case for your clock is a 4-Glass and gilt brass French-made Crystal Regulator style that was used by at least seven makers of 400-Day clocks over many years from at least 1900 through the 1920s. These include Andreas Huber, Jahresuhren-Fabrik, W. Würth & Co., Ph. Hauck, Gustav Becker, Kienzle Clock Co, and of course Claude Grivolas. A 1910 400-Day Clock catalog illustrates this case as model No. 206, as does a 1910 Grivolas 400-Day Catalog. The same model number has been found for various other makers in contemporary advertisements, dealer and trader catalogs, and trade magazines. This finding leads us to consider that the various model numbers for different case designs used by Grivolas and the other makers may well have been the numbers established by the case makers and not the clock manufacturers.
One very important feature of your clock is the suspension spring assembly, which is a rare and fully original temperature compensating suspension unit that includes the original Grivolas upper and lower blocks and fork. The spring unit, as can be seen in your photos, is made up of a common steel section and a section made of Invar coupled at the center with a small clamp. This concept and design was patented by Charles Edouard Guillaume in 1904, with Claude Grivolas collaborating to provide practical testing of the invention.
Invar is an alloy patented by Guillaume in 1896 that has zero coefficient of expansion, but for which rising ambient temperature generally causes an increase in torsional resistance over normal ambient temperatures. Heat treatment of the Invar can affect the amount of change. On the other hand, the torsional resistance of ordinary steel decreases with rising temperature and will cause a torsion pendulum clock to slow down. Thus an appropriate length of steel combined with a proportional length of Invar results in a spring that has zero net change in torsional resistance over normal ambient temperature ranges. This is a true temperature compensating suspension spring; I have conducted tests comparing it to Horolovar springs and cannot find any difference in performance.
Finally, as of this posting your clock has the highest serial number for any Grivolas that has the sequential serial number of the movement also stamped on the pendulum. After this clock I have not found any Grivolas clocks that have matching pendulum serial numbers, implying that they stopped the practice of "matching" pendulums shortly after your clock was made.
I had the clock at the watchmaker but it still runs much too slow.
He is not an expert for rotary pendulums but she runs at least.
A setting over the pendulum does not go because the screw turned up at the end.
Would not like to change the spring because still original.
How can I get the clock faster?
Perhaps a cleaning would bring as is your experience
I hope you understand me since I do not speak every day enlish.
Greetings from Germany
This nice grivolas was sold at ebay germany unfortunately I was not the winner
Wonderful watch I will soon post pictures of mine from my collection.
Friends, how are you? I would like to know more about my watch. 400 day pendulum utilia Claude Grivolas
Very, very nice! From the serial number on the back, it is a Model A (there were A, B, and C models representing different designs over the years). The "10" indicates it was built in 1910 and was the 2323rd clock built starting from the 1906 timeframe. From what I've read, the last digit's purpose is unknown.
Your clock appears quite similar to No. 335 as shown in the 1910 catalog. Your pendulum has matching scroll work but that isn't shown specifically in the catalog.
Kurt, good info regarding the serial numbering. Note that in my post above I explained the complete serial number in detail. The last single digit number is a batch number based on the fact that Grivolas made his plates nine at a time and numbered them "0" through "8". Here is the full explanation for one that had the number "7" as the final number:
Hope this helps.
Omodox, bem-vindo ao MB de NAWCC, e muito obrigado por postar as fotos do seu relógio Claude Grivolas!! You have a very nice example of model No. 335 as seen in the 1910 Claude Grivolas 400-Day Clock Catalog. It appears that the original bronzed finish has been mostly polished away but there is still some color there. Actually this model was made with several variations of color for both the case and for the trim.
Kurt provided accurate dating information, and you can find the complete explanation of the serial numbering in my post above in this thread. Per my database it was completed about August of 1910.
I notice you used the word "utilia" in the description of your clock. Actually Grivolas used that word on a number of clocks, Usually found printed on the dial. I don't see it anywhere on your dial, how did you come to know the word? Or is it somewhere else on your clock?
The decorative band on the pendulum is actually identical to the one on pendulum design No. 15 found on page 37 in the Grivolas catalog. Even though the disc designs are different (the one in the catalog is a flat disc instead of having rounded upper edge as per yours) the decorative bands were used on both pendulum designs.
With regard to my welcome being in portuguese, I have a long relationship with Brasil since 1967 and enjoy seeing one of our Brasilian colleagues join us here. Should you have any questions with the English discussion, please contact me by private message.