Help Patti strike movement repair

Where is the second gear that is controlled by the click? Note this one:

 

I,m not sure that I understand what you are asking. Is the strike not working properly?

RC

 

When the count blade drops into one of the notches of the count wheel the stop pin on the wheel in the last picture must be in position to be arrested by the stop lever. If the pin isn't in position the count wheel will push the count blade out of the notch and the strike will run on forever. With the count blade in one of the count wheel notches, you will unmesh the stop wheel and turn it so the stop pin is at the stop lever and Ramesh the wheel. If the count lever and/or stop lever have been messed with, then the stop lever may not be in line with the stop pin even if the stop pin is positioned correctly.

RC

 

I think RC has it. In your first pic, that big spring (or is it two?) are not part of the movement, and don't belong there.

 

Peter, as Shutterbug said, the two coil springs shown here in your photo do not belong to this clock and are likely to cause a problem. The Patti movements did not use helper springs but because the count lever is so short and has little weight I have found that, while it will operated OK most of the time, the use of a "helper spring" is indicated. You might find this thread helpful; Welch, Spring & Co. Patti Movement - 3 common problems solved Also Steven Conover's book, How to Repair 20 American Clocks, on pages 133 to 135 gives detailed instructions for setting up this movement.

RC

 

Thank you RC and shutterbug. I installed those 2 helper springs to try to solve my problem but the count wheel still moves when I wind it setting off the train I am at a loss on how to proceed, I have followed the set up instructions you have sent in your last post, looked at your new post of your movement and read Conover’s book on this, kindest regards , Peter

 

Did anybody notice that the click wheel is missing??

 

just had it off for the picture, do not worry, I have it

 

I think your strike train is locking too late. That is, there us too long a delay from when the count blade drops into one of the notches and when the stop pin contacts the stop lever. That puts the count blade at the end of the notch. You will probably have to disengage the stop wheel and reposition it so the stop pin is arrested sooner after the count blade drops. The count wheel is attached to the main wheel, it is going to back up a bit during winding. Be sure to check the link in post # 11. This movement was designed without helper springs, but some sort of helper spring on the count lever is usually helpful. I am pleased with the straight wire spring shown in the link. I have also used brass spring wire coiled around the count lever arbor and anchored to the movement leg. It should work pretty well without the spring but I find it adds to the reliability.

RC

 

Do we know that it's locking on the stop lever rather than the maintanance cam?
Just askin'.

 

Yes, but the blade of the stop lever is very narrow. On this one the count lever blade is a dragger and not raised above the rim, much like a French count wheel clock. There really isn't a maintenance cam. Once the strike train is released from warning the slanted trailing edge of the notch in the count wheel lifts the count blade up onto the rim of the count wheel. When the blade drops into the next notch the stop lever stops the train. So the count wheel itself does what a maintenance cam does in other clocks.

RC

 

Thank you all for the help I will try all your ideas I am also getting another patti movement next week so I can compare them I will comment again afterwords although I have been doing this 25 years this is my first patti thank heaven for nawcc and you folks

 

The count wheel is not supposed to move independently, but I have seen them come loose. My personal one was that way and I had to solder it. If it is moving independently it will never work. I'll see if I can dig up a picture.

RC

EDIT: See this picture - the count wheel is supposed to be staked to the brass hub, which is attached to the main wheel. The center part must not be loose in the main wheel and the count wheel must not be loose on the hub. It isn't unexpected that someone may have "twisted" the count wheel to line up the star wheel with the notches in the count wheel and caused the count wheel to become loose on the hub. I ended up soldering and retaking mine. It ain't so pretty but she is running and striking fine.

RC

 

Mine took 42 half-turns when I wound it last week. With 25 half-turns I doubt that you will get a full week run, at least not without some serious slowing down, but the main problem will likely be that the strike will probably stop first which will allow the count wheel to get out of sync with the time. If you did in fact fix the problem, it should accommodate a full wind without something letting go. If it does let go on a full wind then sooner or later it will let go on a partial wind.

One hint regarding the strike train, if you added the helper spring on the count lever this isn't as important, but if not, I suggest leaving off the wire that hangs down to allow manually activating the strike. The weight of the wire is counter productive regarding keeping the count lever in place. It really isn't necessary unless you are coing for strict original restoration. Moving the minute hand ahead until the clock goes into warning run, then back off about 10 minutes will cause the strike to advance one step.

RC