Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch in the 1965 Movie “The Cincinnati Kid”

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by grtnev, Dec 20, 2019.

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  1. grtnev

    grtnev Registered User
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    From “The Cincinnati Kid” - starring Steve McQueen, Edward G. Robinson, Karl Malden, Ann Margret......


    As the big showdown 5 card stud poker game is about ready to begin, Edward G. Robinson checks the time.

    I believe the dial reads Patek Phillipe & Co; Geneve

    Richard

    42459099-482C-458C-A594-5DAF1BCCF415.jpeg
     
  2. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    He'd better double check the time. He's got the crown pulled out to the setting position.
     
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  3. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

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    What a fun theme; actor's and their watches! A couple more pocket watches show up in Edward G. Robinson's film repertoire. His character in Little Caesar, a 1931 gangster film, was given a watch by his hoodlum friends during a testimonial dinner. Can someone identify it?

    Screen Shot 2019-12-21 at 11.11.41 AM.png

    Edward G. Robinson's character was again presented a watch and chain for 25 years service in the 1945 movie Scarlet Street. It was described in the dialogue as "14 karat, 17 jewels" and the time period was 1934.

    Screen Shot 2019-12-21 at 10.58.02 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2019-12-21 at 10.58.47 AM.png
     
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  4. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    It could be almost anything, but: (a) It looks like a 12-size presentation watch. (b) It's an OF watch. (c) It has a dial that closely resembles dials that Hamilton and Illinois used. I don't recall seeing Walthams or Elgins with dials like that. Of course, foreign makers also used dials like that. (d) It has unusual hands that look like open triangles. I think hands like that would more commonly be seen on U.S. watches. (e) The case has a carved rim, which would be more common on a gold case than a platinum case, but the case looks like a platinum one to me.

    If I had to venture a guess, I'd say Little Caesar's watch was a high-grade Illinois or Hamilton in platinum or white gold.

    Here are four examples from my collection.

    First a Hamilton 922MP in platinum, one of a number of Hamiltons I have with the same dial.

    Z Hamilton plat.jpg

    It doesn't have the carved rim and it doesn't have the same hands as Little Caesar's watch. It also has a different bow. I don't know how many platinum 922MP cases were available. It is possible that one was available that would match Little Caesars.

    Another U.S. possibility is this platinum Illinois 439, one of a number of Illinois I have with the same numerals.

    z Ill plat 439.jpg

    It has a carved rim, but the dial has a shiny metal center that Little Caesar's watch doesn't have. The carved rim on Little Caesar's is different, as is the bow and hands. My platinum Illinois is the only one that I know of in existence. Due to its rarity, I'd think a Hamilton in white gold or platinum would be more likely, as would be an Ilinois in white gold, such as this 14k Solidarity-cased 438, with the right dial and nearly right hands, a nearly right carved rim, and a perhaps matching bow.

    IMG_2125.JPG

    But the watch could be Swiss. For example, here is an 18k Cress Arrow-cased C.H. Meylan with the correct dial, but the wrong hands and bow, and an uncarved case.

    IMG_2813.JPG
     
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  5. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    #5 John Pavlik, Dec 21, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
    If it’s any help, appears to have a rigid bow ...typical of US watches ?
     
  6. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    That's what I initially thought, but look at the bow in photo two.
     
  7. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Does this Illinois watch have the same hands and numerals as the Little Caesar watch? Hard for me to say. It's a 1923 grade 405, model name Roosevelt.

    Dial1.JPG
     
  8. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Indeed an interesting thread - shortly after reading it, I happened to find this on David Penney's site ...

    If anyone is a fan, as I am, of David Suchet's television portrayal of Hercule Poirot, they will know he is shown using a most inappropriate 'farmer's verge' watch.

    I couldn't find a close-up of a 'farmer's verge' with the Coventry painted dial, but it was certainly a very heavy verge ...

    upload_2019-12-22_10-34-25.png upload_2019-12-22_10-35-9.png upload_2019-12-22_10-35-49.png upload_2019-12-22_10-36-21.png

    John
     
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  9. John Cote

    John Cote Director
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    Wristwatch spotting in modern movies has become a thing for younger watch nerds. The current movie "Ford vs Ferrari" is a wonderful example with many online articles and blogs about the racing chronographs worn in the movie and whether they would really be the watches these racers would have worn.
     
  10. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

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    Clearly spinning off-topic, but I agree that Suchet was the best Poirot. Far more nuanced than Peter Ustinov and other portrayals IMHO. In fact, Ustinov himself recommended that Suchet try the role when they worked together on a Poirot film in 1985.

    When Kenneth Branagh was interviewed by FHH Journal on his interpretation of the character, he had some interesting comments on the famous "silver turnip pocket watch":
    "Agatha Christie wanted Poirot to be precise, meticulous, fastidious and most of all punctual. That he is constantly looking at his watch reflects his wish to be in control of time. What is, when all’s said and done, a rather derisory object becomes an essential aspect of the character’s “get-up”, as much a part of him as his legendary moustache. It’s like an extension of himself. Whenever you see Poirot take his watch from his pocket, you know something is about to happen. It’s as though time stands still. That’s when you realise Poirot is a true professional who leaves no detail, however small, unattended. Time is a vital element in any investigation. It’s how a detective builds up a picture of what happened when, and puts each element back into its context. For Hercule Poirot, the best way to unmask a criminal or solve an enigma is to sit himself down and get his grey cells working… winding his watch as he thinks!"

    PS, can anyone explain what a "turnip" watch is? Google doesn't seem to know, other than Churchill had one (a Breguet no less)!

    Further down the rabbit hole; do I have support for advancing Jeremy Brett as the finest Sherlock? The man lost himself in the character, unfortunately.

    Forgive me this long quotation from The Sign of Four, Conan Doyle's second Sherlock novel, but it is watch-related:

    (Watson) “I have heard you say it is difficult for a man to have any object in daily use without leaving the impress of his individuality upon it in such a way that a trained observer might read it. Now, I have here a watch which has recently come into my possession. Would you have the kindness to let me have an opinion upon the character or habits of the late owner?”

    I handed him over the watch with some slight feeling of amusement in my heart, for the test was, as I thought, an impossible one, and I intended it as a lesson against the somewhat dogmatic tone which he occasionally assumed. He balanced the watch in his hand, gazed hard at the dial, opened the back, and examined the works, first with his naked eyes and then with a powerful convex lens. I could hardly keep from smiling at his crestfallen face when he finally snapped the case to and handed it back.

    “There are hardly any data,” he remarked. “The watch has been recently cleaned, which robs me of my most suggestive facts.”

    “You are right,” I answered. “It was cleaned before being sent to me.” In my heart I accused my companion of putting forward a most lame and impotent excuse to cover his failure. What data could he expect from an uncleaned watch?

    “Though unsatisfactory, my research has not been entirely barren,” he observed, staring up at the ceiling with dreamy, lack-lustre eyes. “Subject to your correction, I should judge that the watch belonged to your elder brother, who inherited it from your father.”

    “That you gather, no doubt, from the H. W. upon the back?”

    “Quite so. The W. suggests your own name. The date of the watch is nearly fifty years back, and the initials are as old as the watch: so it was made for the last generation. Jewellery usually descends to the eldest son, and he is most likely to have the same name as the father. Your father has, if I remember right, been dead many years. It has, therefore, been in the hands of your eldest brother.”

    “Right, so far,” said I. “Anything else?”

    “He was a man of untidy habits–very untidy and careless. He was left with good prospects, but he threw away his chances, lived for some time in poverty with occasional short intervals of prosperity, and finally, taking to drink, he died. That is all I can gather.”

    I sprang from my chair and limped impatiently about the room with considerable bitterness in my heart.“This is unworthy of you, Holmes,” I said. “I could not have believed that you would have descended to this. You have made inquiries into the history of my unhappy brother, and you now pretend to deduce this knowledge in some fanciful way. You cannot expect me to believe that you have read all this from [93]his old watch! It is unkind and, to speak plainly, has a touch of charlatanism in it.”

    “My dear doctor,” said he kindly, “pray accept my apologies. Viewing the matter as an abstract problem, I had forgotten how personal and painful a thing it might be to you. I assure you, however, that I never even knew that you had a brother until you handed me the watch.”

    “Then how in the name of all that is wonderful did you get these facts? They are absolutely correct in every particular.”

    “Ah, that is good luck. I could only say what was the balance of probability. I did not at all expect to be so accurate.”

    “But it was not mere guesswork?”

    “No, no: I never guess. It is a shocking habit–destructive to the logical faculty. What seems strange to you is only so because you do not follow my train of thought or observe the small facts upon which large inferences may depend. For example, I began by stating that your brother was careless. When you observe the lower part of that watch-case you notice that it is not only dinted in two places but it is cut and marked all over from the habit of keeping other hard objects, such as coins or keys, in the same pocket. Surely it is no great feat to assume that a man who treats a fifty-guinea watch so cavalierly must be a careless man. Neither is it a very far-fetched inference that a man who inherits one article of such value is pretty well provided for in other respects.”

    I nodded to show that I followed his reasoning.

    “It is very customary for pawnbrokers in England, when they take a watch, to scratch the numbers of the ticket with a pin-point upon the inside of the case. It is more handy than a label as there is no risk of the number being lost or transposed. There are no less than four such numbers visible to my lens on the inside of this case. Inference–that your brother was often at low water. Secondary inference–that he had occasional bursts of prosperity, or he could not have redeemed the pledge. Finally, I ask you to look at the inner plate, which contains the keyhole. Look at the thousands of scratches all round the hole–marks where the key has slipped. What sober man’s key could have scored those grooves? But you will never see a drunkard’s watch without them. He winds it at night, and he leaves these traces of his unsteady hand. Where is the mystery in all this?”

    “It is as clear as daylight,” I answered. “I regret the injustice which I did you. I should have had more faith in your marvellous faculty.”
     
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  11. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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  12. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi John,

    Yes, that's my understanding of the term 'turnip watch', a 'speed the plough' specimen.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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