Patek Philippe used Niton movements

Discussion in 'Complicated Watches' started by ticktack, Jul 15, 2019.

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  1. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

    Jul 6, 2010
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    Dear watch lover,
    Maybe you can solve following mystery ?!

    According to the Patek Philippe Museum Catalog and director of the Patek Philippe Museum, Patek Philippe bought 30 high grade watches/ movements by Niton in the 30's.
    But it still remains a mystery what and how many of which calibers....

    I have tried to solve the mystery but I stuck to beneath summary;

    Under the 30 watches and movements by Niton which Patek Philippe bought are round calibers 17''' and tonneau calibers 10''', but also 7''' and 6''' calibers and maybe others.

    Till now, there are known 2 pocket watches with a round caliber 17''', but it could be more, but how many?!

    According to Huber & Banbery, the Patek Philippe book shows 2 'ladies calibers';

    One which is a 7''' baguette caliber, nameless but it was produced by Niton with Patek Philippe movement serial number;
    860392

    And the other is named Niton 6''' baguette caliber with Patek Philippe movement serial number;
    860705

    The baguette caliber 7''' is also shown at the Antiquorum site as a ladies watch, known as an unique PP&C ladies Reverso wristwatch.

    But it looks like there are at least 3 ladies reverso watches with this Niton baquette caliber 7''' which Antiquorum named it as baguette caliber 4''' with Patek Philippe movement serial numbers;
    826097
    830397
    860396

    Also Sotheby's shows, possible a PP&C ladies cocktail watch which housed a 2 1/4''' baguette movement, with Patek Philippe movement serial number;
    822988

    But I could't validate because I didn't show the movement.

    And most probably Patek Philippe bought/used several Niton tonneau caliber 10''' movements. It looks like that the production serial numbers of these movements by Niton are;

    5041
    5042
    5043
    5044
    5045
    5046
    5047
    5048
    5049 (which is a platinum wristwatch horizontal with rectangle triple calendar moon phase)
    5050
    5051
    5052
    5053
    5054
    5055
    5056
    5057
    And with a Patek Philippe movement serial number;
    860182 (which is the other known platinum rectangle wristwatch with horizontal triple calendar moon phase)

    Besides the 2 known above platinum wristwatches, till today the others are still unknown.

    Also LeCoultre produced and/ or delivered TS 10''' calibers (tonneau shaped caliber with serpentine bridge movement) to Patek Philippe, see beneath for the Patek Philippe serial numbers.
    But I am not sure if LeCoultre also developed this caliber?! My hypothesis is that Louis Elisee Piguet developed it and produced the ebauches for LeCoultre, but I am not sure.

    1932:
    198479
    826574
    826575
    826576
    826577
    826578
    826579

    1938:
    826580
    826581
    826582
    826583
    826584
    826585
    832673
    832677

    Sincerely,
    Sander
     
  2. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

    Jul 6, 2010
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    See for the baguette caliber 6''' and 7''' beneath pictures from Huber and Banbery home_image.4669793.jpg
     
  3. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

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    home_image.4669818.jpg
     
  4. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

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    home_image.4669848.jpg
     
  5. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

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    home_image.4669843.jpg
     
  6. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

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    home_image.4669808.jpg
     
  7. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

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    PP mvt No. 860320.PNG PP dial No. 860320.PNG
     
  8. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
    NAWCC Gold Member

    Jan 8, 2006
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    Sanders, I still know nothing about Niton except what you've told me. The pocket watch movement shown in your last posting (#7) looks to have been based on an ebauche used by many other makers, including P.Ditisheim, Audemars Piguet, Zenith, Frankfeld, Breguet, D. Nicole, Dietrich Gruen, Plojoux, C.H. Meylan, and
    Koehn/Ekegren. These movements, or at least their ebauches, seem to have been made by Les Fils de Louis-
    Elisée Piguet, Le Brassus, later known as Frédéric Piguet, now part of Blancpain. I think you reached the same conclusion in the last full paragraph of your initial posting.
     
  9. ticktack

    ticktack Registered User

    Jul 6, 2010
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    Good morning Ethan,
    Thanks for asking.
    And yes, that is right ! The caliber 17''' which is shown in the PP&C pocket watch above was developed by LEP and used by manny others. And with an invention by Niton the Niton versions of the Louis Elisée Piguet (LEP) caliber 17''' where the thinnist of all and all.

    Besides complicated watches, LEP was also known as developer and producer of shaped thin calibers, like baguette, rectangle, oval and tonneau etc, more than LeCoultre did in that period. In the book by Osterhausen, 'Louis Elisee Piguet: six generations d'horlogers de la Vallee de Joux' you can see some samples of these shaped calibers, also the pre-duoplan/Caliber 101 of LeCoultre, the thinnist mechanical movement ever.

    But again, I can not validate couse I didn't see pictures in the LEP book of the tonneau shaped caliber 10''' LeCoultre delivered to Patek Philippe.

    Sincerely,
    Sander
     

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