Patek philippe geneve

Discussion in 'Watch Repair' started by bubix99, Mar 27, 2017.

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  1. bubix99

    bubix99 New Member

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    Hello guyz, i have an Patek Philippe REF39701W and my mechanical system is stoping. Here is a video with the problem. https://youtu.be/gUxdrBdZxeA WhatsApp Image 2017-03-27 at 18.25.02.jpeg
    Help pls
     
  2. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I'll move this to the watch repair forum for you :)
     
  3. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Its better to post pictures, cant see much in your video. Are you sure its what you think it is.
     
  4. bubix99

    bubix99 New Member

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    17571689_1298616166919979_1248484850_o.jpg 17571776_1298616153586647_629984159_o.jpg and yes, is running a little bit and boom, stop
     
  5. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Like any watch they need to be regularly serviced. To me this does not look like a genuine Patek, looking at pictures of Patek watches. But i am not a expert. Hope someone else will comment.
    A clean and oil and adjustment will likely make it run again reliably.
     
  6. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    It seems rather peppered with geneva seals, mine has only one.

    I don't know if it is real, but I like the dial. It is easy enough to check, you just need to contact PP to get an extract.

    Meanwhile yes, it probably needs servicing. PP have a fixed price for servicing under 25 years, after that it gets rather unknown territory.
     
  7. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    The finish of the movement is nothing like the ones i have seen in pictures. If you take it to a Patek dealer for service they should be able to say if genuine, as you would need to know if you have it serviced.
     
  8. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I agree, on all the ones I looked at the rotor was gold but I don't know how old this one is.
     
  9. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    I am sorry but I don't think this is a genuine Patek Philippe. It does not appear on their site - on the other hand, if you look on the internet for Patek Philippe 39701W you will find it is a fake made in China.

    I am not expert in watches, so may be I am wrong, but you can look for yourself and decide.

    JTD
     
  10. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    I have never seen a real Patek-Philippe that has a display back. They may make them, but I'm 99% sure that this is not one of them. The thing about Patek, and other fine makers, is that the quality really jumps out at you. This one is not doing that for me at all. The strap is genuine leather though. Sorry. I hope you didn't pay a Patek price for that watch. Nobody around here would. Good luck.
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    They certainly do make them, and in quite a few models.
     
  12. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Thanks. That's why I gave myself a bit of an "out". I'm pretty new to wrist-watches, having spent more time with pocket watches. Still, my faux-dar is going off pretty big on this particular watch, and my instincts are usually pretty good. What do you think the odds are that it's a real Patek Philippe?
     
  13. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    low I think, but like all posh watch makers they don't always have the best taste in design, though I agree you can usually see the quality.
     
  14. captainscarlet

    captainscarlet Registered User

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    The OP's watch is a fake! A very cheap fake! It would probably be cheaper to shell out another 35 bucks and buy a new one rather than have the problem watch looked at. Or failing that, the correct ref 3971 with display back, with a similar layout in gold will set you back around $80,000 USD. There is of course always the possibility that a rich long lost uncle kindly gives one to you:whistle:
     
  15. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

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    #15 dAz57, Mar 27, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
    Yep, it's rubbish, cheap Chinese movement dressed up, not even worth the effort to open it up.


    So a Google search for "patek philippe automatic movement" and you will find plenty of examples of the real thing.
     
  16. Jerry Kieffer

    Jerry Kieffer Registered User
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    I own several Pateks and have serviced/repaired a fair number over the years. Unfortunately as some others have mentioned, yours is a Fake. Once you have observed the quality and detail of an original, you can easily spot a fake by looking at the attention to that detail such as rounding of all sharp edges, 22K ball bearing rotors, Gyromax balance etc. The following photo`s should give you a reference point to start with. The photo`s are poor because of the reflections created by the crystal over the movement but should give you a starting point for comparison.

    Jerry Kieffer
     

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  17. Jerry Kieffer

    Jerry Kieffer Registered User
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    I own several Pateks and have serviced/repaired a fair number over the years. Unfortunately as some others have mentioned, yours is a Fake. Once you have observed the quality and detail of an original, you can easily spot a fake by looking at the attention to that detail such as rounding of all sharp edges, 22K ball bearing rotors, Gyromax balance etc. The following photo`s should give you a reference point to start with. The photo`s are poor because of the reflections created by the crystal over the movement but should give you a starting point for comparison.
    This particular watch is one that I wear occasionally and was handy, however it is certainly not considered a high quality Patek.

    Jerry Kieffer​
     

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  18. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    It doesn't look like a Patek Philippe strap either, they don't have genuine Leather written on them let alone in huge letters.
     
  19. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    The difference in the finish of the two movements are like night and day, i was pretty sure it was fake.
     
  20. musicguy

    musicguy Registered User
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    #20 musicguy, Mar 28, 2017
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    RE: "it's rubbish, cheap Chinese movement dressed up, not even worth the effort to open it up."

    Just so some of you guy's understand, the OP will probably never post here again.
    They asked for some help and were basically told they are an idiot(by some).
    Obviously most of the responses were not negative, and they all told the truth,
    but if it's someones first post on this forum, it would be nice to hold back a little.
    Not holding back on the truth, but with some of the comments.

    If someone took the time to find this forum, then to register for this forum,
    then to post photos of their own watch here, then just maybe they are truly
    interested in watches.


    Rob
     
    gmorse likes this.
  21. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I'm always a bit reluctant to trash somebody's family heirloom or tell them their treasured longcase is an appalling marriage of disparate parts.

    I hadn't noticed the comments you mentioned, I agree not the best way to proceed.

    I looked at quite a few before buying one, I'm in no way an authority on them but even if I were I would tread gently.

    I still like the dial by the way. My preference is for fewer subsidiaries as with my eyesight it prevents me telling the time, but I like the engine turned look.
     
  22. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

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    The print being off center on the day date subdials is another tell tale sign that this is not genuine.

    But that wasn't the original question. The question was what is wrong with it. And that we can't know without being told additional information and I have a feeling we won't get more.

    On the other hand, this would be an excellent place to start if the OP is interested in learning watch repair! Hopefully the price of the watch wasn't much and getting a spare should be cheap as well if this one gets ruined in a repair attempt.
     
  23. Accutronica

    Accutronica Registered User

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    Kind of like black belts coming to the school I went to and getting whipped up on by our orange and green belts. lol
    Only one of them that I saw was smart enough and not emotionally broken that said, "sign me up!".

    Robert
     
  24. Al J

    Al J Registered User

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    I guess I take a different view - if the person is truly interested in watches, they should understand that fakes like this are not acceptable - period. If the person is truly interested in learning about horology, they would not let the responses here put them off. It's clearly a fake, and in the event that the person who posted isn't already aware of that, they should maybe try to get their money back - likely wishful thinking on a couple of points, but maybe he really did think it was real.

    As for service, I personally would not touch this watch as I don't work on fakes - there are more than enough legit watches out there to keep me very busy. There's only one tool needed for these in my opinion:

    [​IMG]

    Cheers, Al
     
  25. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    Move on a century or so and your hammer will have given the remaining fakes a value.

    We see fake English pocket watches all the time, they were being made by the Swiss and the French to suggest a London origin and achieve a better price. I doubt all those that bought them were fooled but they hoped to fool others.

    Bit like 30 hour longcase masquerading as 8 day, the owner may have just wanted to deceive their neighbour.
     
  26. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

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    On the other hand, when you are starting out, ruining something of value can be one of the primary concerns. What better place to start than a fake?

    I can see why you don't consider them worth your time.
     
  27. Jerry Kieffer

    Jerry Kieffer Registered User
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    Al
    Will have to second your comments.

    I try to be as polite as possible when dealing with the public. However when it comes to fakes, I prefer knowledgeable people be as blunt as possible so I do not forget.
    As I am sure with some of us, I have been scammed at least once that I would admit to and would have preferred to be offended. Some of the better quality Rolex fakes out of Hong Kong have used original Rolex cases, dials and hands with a $.99 junk digital movement. So it is very important to be careful on expensive watches.

    Jerry Kieffer

    PS
    Sorry about my previous double posting, but could not figure out how to delete one.
     
  28. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Nothing wrong with being honest in a nice way. I have been on this mb quite a few years, people were treated worse in the past. The poster could have done some research on his own as well, the internet is a good place to learn things.
     
  29. bubix99

    bubix99 New Member

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    Thank you so much for the opinions and i know he was fake was obviosly, and nice watch @Jerry Kieffer, the problem is, a wheel jump from his position and in a service they told me "Reparation cost 40 or 50 $".
     
  30. MrRoundel

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    I do realize that some of us may occasionally come across as slightly less than diplomatic, but overall I think we're an empathetic bunch. And I suppose one could take my "Nobody here would..." (Pay a Patek price for the watch.) as a bit of a slap, but it was not meant that way. I apologize if it was found offensive.

    Everyone knows that we get a fair number of newbies who only come to gather information from perceived experts with as little effort as possible. Even that's OK, but it can get frustrating to some. This poster seemed OK, and was treated with courtesy for the most part for most of the thread. But it was rather obvious, even after the first few responses, that the OP was unlikely to engage us further, and ask any more questions no matter what. It became a discussion among us only exclusively.

    When it comes to dealing with fakes, where the difference in value can be immense, it's good to give a little tough love, IMO. If defrauded, at least it gives them ammunition to go after the perpetrator, if at all possible. And while the idea of answering original question, without going off on tangents, sounds good on paper, the importance to the OP, and the world, knowing this watch wasn't a real Patek, seemed all-important.

    There is also some possibility, albeit remote, that the poster was looking to perceived experts in order to find out just how expert they are, and if a watch like that might pass muster in order to produce a few. A "test market" of sorts. One never knows. And I doubt that we shall be any different. Cheers.
     
  31. musicguy

    musicguy Registered User
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    This will be my last post on this topic....

    First, yes people should absolutely be told that their watch is a fake.
    Second, hopefully the buyer doesn't turn around and sell
    the watch, it probably should be destroyed(or engraved
    on the back that it's not real). I get it.

    BUT, it's how you say it that makes you someone they(or I) would like
    to continue the conversation with. You may not know it but you
    are the ambassadors for current, and future watch collectors.
    Not people necessarily interested in learning about horology, but they
    own a few watches that they want more information on.
    Maybe I'm in the wrong place, sorry. I don't
    think we differ on our feelings about fake watches, it's
    how you talk to new people.

    Rob
     
  32. Al J

    Al J Registered User

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    Hi Karl,

    I see your point, but for me this is unequivocal. Fakes are not only illegal, but the industry is often supporting organized crime. Many people consider them "harmless" but I don't personally. Fakes of all kinds (not just watches) are out there in droves, and good people are cheated out of their hard earned money daily. There are even problems in some countries with fake medications, fake parts used on aircraft, fake electronics down to the component level that have been found in military jets and weapons. The issue of fakes goes way beyond watches, and I personally don't want anything to do with them in any way.

    There are plenty of cheaper watches out there that can be used for practice that are not fake, and don't support the fake industry.

    Cheers, Al

    Hi Rob,

    I do understand your point, and being polite is a good thing. However if you have run across the sort of people that commonly post fake watches on watch collecting sites, some tend to be quite stubborn or clueless in understanding that the watch they have is not real, and that fakes are unacceptable. Quite frankly, sometimes you need to be rather blunt to get the point across, and I don't see anything in this thread yet that crosses the line, at least in my opinion. The OP is back here now saying that someone wants $40 or $50 to fix this, so he is apparently still looking at getting it fixed in order to wear it.

    IMO the only thing worse than someone unknowingly buying/wearing a fake watch, is someone knowingly doing it.

    I don't consider myself a collector even though I have a "collection" but I am a watchmaker and this is how I make my living. If you have ever had to break the news to someone that their watch is fake, trust me it's not a nice thing to have to do. After a few times seeing the look on people's faces...well let's just say my tolerance for fakes and those who wear/sell them is non-existent.

    Cheers, Al
     
  33. musicguy

    musicguy Registered User
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    True Al ............and I didn't see that the OP posted that they found someone to repair it,
    and knew it was a fake.


    Rob
     
  34. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

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    I see your point. If it's any consolation, a rookie with a "watch repair kit" from eBay can be just as efficient as a hammer :).
     
  35. MrRoundel

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    All's well that ends well. I'm glad that he found someone to fix it for a decent price. Maybe it's just an hour-wheel that's off-plane, and not meshing properly?

    That said, it would have saved a lot of hassle if the OP had just said that he knew it was a fake when he posted. I believe he started with "I have a Patek Philippe..." with a PP model reference number. And so it goes...Cheers.
     
  36. novicetimekeeper

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    :thumb:
     
  37. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Interesting about a week or so ago. Someone was trying to sell a fake Patek locally.
    . I reported it and the listing was removed. Interesting to note the seller knew it was fake, and was going to pass it off as genuine.
     
  38. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Not Pateks but I had a couple of Rolex and a couple of Omega fakes this week. The Rolex owners knew they were fakes and weren't worried. One was Chinese with incabloc. The other was a Citizen from the 82 stable., stamped Miyota.

    The Omega owners thought their watches were real. Both Chinese made.
     
  39. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    I had a friend who used to quote his father every now and then when it comes to such things. He said that his dad always said, "Whatever can be fixed (rigged) will be fixed." Put enough potential profit in the equation and criminal genius will get to work on snagging a piece of it.
     
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