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Opinions please antique German round top clock
- Thread starter Twilson
- Start date
Welcome to the forum.
Round top tall case clocks were popular in the 1910s and 1920s. Your clock was probably made post WWI into the 1920s.
This estimate is off by 150 to 200 years.
Without seeing the movement, I agree that it is most likely German.
Regards.
Oh wow..I’m really glad I found this site and forum. I’m very new to clocks. Have a Hermle mantle clock and a Gustav Becker wall clock that I inherited, but was thinking of purchasing this clock. I was told by the seller that it appraises for $10k and the last one she saw like it sold for $6,000 in a local vintage interior store. Needless to say, I’m sorely disappointed, but I really appreciate your feedback.
The 'valuation' is also nonsense. These clocks can often be bought for much less than $1,000.
JTD
I opened the video you posted and looked @ the clock. I hope it was the correct one. It's much better to download a picture to the Forums.
The story you are being told, except for the part about it being German is, well, hogwash. That's being very polite. Okay, maybe the seller is just delusional or very misinformed.
I believe a German tall case clock produced between the wars. If it's from the 18th Century, then I'm a monkey's uncle. These clocks are a dime a dozen. In New England I have seen those clocks priced retail @ < $500 and not selling very quickly in that price range.
Not someone I would want to deal with.
Run as fast as you possibly can.
Caveat emptor.
RM
I really appreciate your candid feedback, more than you know. I truly believe that the dealer who has this on consignment was misinformed by the estate owner who listed this with her. She is in the business of estate sales, not clocks, but this will be very valuable info for her, as well. I’d done some homework, and I thought that the face was brass, which could be indicative of that time period, but I’m VERY new to clocks, and can’t tell you how happy I am I found this site and forum. I’ve also included a photo of the clock. Thank you again for this information, it helps me know how to move forward (I’ve already paid a $500 deposit - yikes!) I have no doubt that the vendor will take this info back to her client though, and hopefully we can come to terms. I think it’s prob a combination of misinformation and ‘sentimental valuation’ needless to say, I thought I’d found a real treasure, so that’s disappointing, but happy to have this info in regard to dating. So again, many thanks!
Some other points to be considered ....
With respect to the clock at issue, the movement was made by a mass manufacturer of movements. So, there is a 99% chance that the movement is not by a 'rare maker'. The most likely maker of the movement was Junghans, Kienzle or Mauthe - the three largest and most prolific makers of movements post WWI. And chances are great that no one knows who made the 'furniture' aspects of the piece.
With respect to tall case clocks in particular - the market for tall case clocks is very depressed from what it was ten or fifteen years ago - the desirability of these clocks has decreased greatly over that time, including older more rare clocks.
Are they charging you for delivery and set-up? How much of a 'bumper-to-bumper' warranty are they providing? What will they charge you for coming to your house to diagnose and fix potential problems?
Hope this helps!
Regards.
Yes, the 'face' is brass, but that doesn't mean this clock is 18th century (made in the 1700s). The design on the weights and from what I can see of the pendulum, is art nouveau, another point which confirms the date which has been suggested by others on here (early 20th century).
You may be right about the dealer being misinformed, let us hope so. Bear in mind that a lot of people think that something that dates to the 1800s means 18th century. It doesn't, it means 19th century. This clock is from the early 20th century and yes, it's German. These clocks are often of good quality and long-lasting, but without seeing the movement it is impossible to know which of the many German makers it is from. My guess is it could be Mauthe, but could equally well be one of the other big clock makers.
Personally, I think you have already paid enough - I wouldn't pay a penny more than $500 for a clock like this and many sell for less.
Let us know how you get on.
JTD
It helps immensely, thank you. We would be transporting the clock ourselves. It’s only about 3 miles away from our home. No warranty; but thankfully, I have a clock smith here in my hometown, who has done some work on my mantle and wall clock recently. I consulted him on dating this clock, as well, and he shared the same thoughts, early 1900’s.
My local clock smith said art nouveau as well. I understood 18th century to mean made in the 1700s lol, I thought the lack of embellishment around the face might support that, but feel a bit silly now. Better to know now vs paying $2500, transporting ourselves, no warranty/set up etc. then telling our family and friends about our ‘18th century’ foyer clock HA! How embarrassing…sheesh. I’ll definitely post the outcome after discussing with the seller! JTD
Well, everyone has to learn, no need to feel silly. But if you are really going ahead with this purchase, you will be able to say 'Look at our handsome art nouveau German foyer clock, over 100 years old'.
JTD
Very True - Hoping we can just call this clock ‘paid in full’ and bring it home. It’s still lovely, even if it’s not the conversation piece I originally thought it was. I was so disappointed about it yesterday my husband couldn’t even be upset with me for writing the check. I’m sure the seller will issue a refund/give us a credit if we can’t come to terms with her consignor.
I think your dates are wrong, I believe the clock was made 1900-15.
You are right about it being German and also that they are very easy to find. I also think your prices are correct.
JTD
Buy the clock if you like it! Nothing wrong with it, per de. Would go with the other clocks you mentioned you inherited. But I think @ $500 you’re all in. Don’t pay another penny.
Also, just know what you’re buying.
Re: the seller’s agent. IMHO, if she has been in the “biz” for any period of time, her ignorance & misinformation is astounding… or suspect. Remember, she gets a percentage. The more you pay, the more she gets.
Does it run? Will it need servicing or has that been done recently?? If not, figure that.
At the price she quoted, I don’t care what guarantees she gives with the clock. Would bet it’s as is.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
RM
Sounds like the chime rods are mangled going by the incessant jangling heard in your recording.
Clocks from 1939 and 1926 catalogs:
Basically a floor standing weight driven equivalent to the so-called 'box regulator', with deep voiced gongs and ease of access being their primary draw-ins. The best way I'd describe these and other household clocks of the period would be 'utilitarian'. They were of simple but robust construction and tend to be reliable, but were also produced in very large quantities to the point of becoming 'ad nauseum'. The Germans were through with them by 1960 or thereabouts.
There are some legit amazing examples from the more prestigious manufacturers who aimed for workmanship over quota - LFS, VFU/Gustav Becker, MB Peerless. A more likely manufacturer of the clock you're looking at would be Mauthe, Kienzle, Junghans, HAC, DUFA or Hawina, all of which produced these clocks by the hundreds upon thousands and cut as many corners needed to facilitate production.
If you really like it, buy it, but think before you buy and always consider a potentially better deal beforehand.
These were typical German household clocks produced anywhere between the 1920s-1950s, with little stylistic change throughout that period.
Clocks from 1939 and 1926 catalogs:
Basically a floor standing weight driven equivalent to the so-called 'box regulator', with deep voiced gongs and ease of access being their primary draw-ins. The best way I'd describe these and other household clocks of the period would be 'utilitarian'. They were of simple but robust construction and tend to be reliable, but were also produced in very large quantities to the point of becoming 'ad nauseum'. The Germans were through with them by 1960 or thereabouts.
There are some legit amazing examples from the more prestigious manufacturers who aimed for workmanship over quota - LFS, VFU/Gustav Becker, MB Peerless. A more likely manufacturer of the clock you're looking at would be Mauthe, Kienzle, Junghans, HAC, DUFA or Hawina, all of which produced these clocks by the hundreds upon thousands and cut as many corners needed to facilitate production.
If you really like it, buy it, but think before you buy and always consider a potentially better deal beforehand.
Thank you, yes, definitely all in at $500. I did not know what I was buying, but thanks to all of you, now I do!
Great advice, and thank you. I did notice that sound after the gong, but had no idea that it could be issues with chime rods. Wondering what that might cost to fix, but I do have a great local clock smith that can service it. He’s helped me with my Gustav Becker and Hermle just this last week, we’re replacing some beveled glass in the Gustav etc. I appreciate you pointing that out.
It may be as simple as carefully bending the rods back into general alignment, or a more extensive replacement of all the rods. The gong rods on these clocks are large and prone to damage if they are transported without being properly secured. They also tend to get rusty if the clock took in too much moisture and badly rusted rods are beyond reasonable repair. Then comes the movement which has probably not been overhauled recently and would benefit from an overhaul.
The gong block may be signed with a distinct name or pattern which can identify a maker, however the manufacture of gongs was leased out to a small number of specialty companies who produced gongs by the truckloads. The Germans were real masters at crazy precision manufacturing to make movements, gongs, dials, cases and every other part in large quantities with as little human interaction as possible. Large factories with specialized machinery to do all this were designed and arranged at the cost of human interaction. A win for the profitable side of clockmaking, a loss for the artistic side of clockmaking.
The gong block may be signed with a distinct name or pattern which can identify a maker, however the manufacture of gongs was leased out to a small number of specialty companies who produced gongs by the truckloads. The Germans were real masters at crazy precision manufacturing to make movements, gongs, dials, cases and every other part in large quantities with as little human interaction as possible. Large factories with specialized machinery to do all this were designed and arranged at the cost of human interaction. A win for the profitable side of clockmaking, a loss for the artistic side of clockmaking.
I do know that the estate that this clock came from, the previous owner had the clock for 40 years, their only child lives very far away, and told the estate sale company that she would pay to have the clock shipped to her, before she took any less than $2500. That being said, I’m fairly certain that the clock hasn’t been serviced in a long time, which I can rectify, if I purchase, but maybe I should have my clock smith evaluate the clock’s integrity and provide an estimate of servicing/repairs. This is very good info. Thank you.
UPDATE: The dealer told me she would take the clock home and burn it before she sold it for $500 I told her that’s what she should do then, because I wasn’t going to pay 5 times it’s value, but the good news is, I get a full refund on my $500 deposit. Thanks so much to all of you for knowledge, experience, and advice.
Excellent! Very glad you got your deposit back and now you can start looking for a clock that you like for a price that is fair. And please come back here if you need any help.
JTD
it’s all been said, and it’s all over now… But for the record, I’ve purchased two of these in the last three years. The first one was $100, and the second one was nicer than the one being (and a three train westminster chime) and it was $200. Also, I was able to service them myself… taking either to a clock shop would cost hundreds of dollars and incur a multi month wait as all the shops have long waiting lists. I don’t think the seller is evil… They just are not as aware of the clock market as we are. They will have that clock forever, and it will still need servicing, and you are now a much more informed clock shopper. clocks are only worth what someone will pay for them.
Glad you got a full refund.
Hope the seller has a nice supply of skewers & a big bag of marshmallows.
Re: the prices quoted above. I suspect those may have been found on Craig’s List where clocks were sought before there was a significant change in circumstances.
Prices quoted before those were what one might encounter in a New England antique group shop. The clock would be in good “nick”. Yep, may find/negotiate a better price.
I think someone not to do business with in the future?
RM
You are correct, much more informed, and that’s what she said to me. She said she had two other people interested at the list price and that she would be able to sell it for more than $500. She also did not seem at all interested to hear what I had learned, which was surprising to me, and made me think that she already knew it wasn’t 18th century. If I were a dealer of antiques I would want to hear the info and see the research so that I would know what I was selling, and for future reference, as well. She said that she sold one just like it very recently for $3600 (two weeks ago she told me that one sold for $6,000 lol.) It’s all water under the bridge now, and I didn’t make a bad purchase, and it’s very interesting to learn that you acquired two that were similar, for a fraction of the cost. I’m going to keep looking, for sure!
It’s definitely raised some questions for me, she’s always been very good to deal with before, but she said some things that were almost rude..like - ‘she’s learned a valuable lessons to never do ‘lay-aways’ again’. Like I was some peasant who couldn’t really afford the clock (I could’ve paid cash outright for it) but that’s irrelevant. She also said that she wished I’d done all this research before I said I wanted the clock (I’m sure she wishes I’d never found this site/forum, or had my other two clocks serviced Thursday, which prompted my discussion with the clock smith and led me here.) Disappointing for sure. She later called me back and said that she’d talked to the owner and she apologized for misinforming her, that’s the info her deceased father had provided, and in turn misinforming me, and that instead of issuing a credit for future estate sales, the owner was refunding my $500.
and here's a better/cleaner one that sold at auction two years ago... for $180 (plus auction fees)
German Round Top Grandfather Clock - May 15, 2021 | Tom Harris Auctions in IA
check your local craigslist every day... good things come to those who wait
German Round Top Grandfather Clock - May 15, 2021 | Tom Harris Auctions in IA
check your local craigslist every day... good things come to those who wait
In this life we all have to pay for our lessons. Fortunately for you, you received several lessons, for free. Welcome to the club!
Ray
Yes, AND I got my deposit back, which is fantastic. Thanks Ray, glad to be here.
I was going to post that these clocks make a seller really happy, if she/he gets 200 €. Prior posts seem to confirm that this is not different elsewhere.
Just for comparison. Last year I bought an absolutely authentic Scottish long case clock from about 1760 and with special and rare features, like sweep seconds hand. In very good condition (except wrong 24 h wheel). From a German antiques dealer in clocks also. It cost me 900 € or 950 € (I would need to look it up, but clearly 3-figure range) and that price included specialist antique transport over about 800 km. He probably paid less than half of that to the prior owner.
Best regards, Bernhard
Just for comparison. Last year I bought an absolutely authentic Scottish long case clock from about 1760 and with special and rare features, like sweep seconds hand. In very good condition (except wrong 24 h wheel). From a German antiques dealer in clocks also. It cost me 900 € or 950 € (I would need to look it up, but clearly 3-figure range) and that price included specialist antique transport over about 800 km. He probably paid less than half of that to the prior owner.
Best regards, Bernhard
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That one is a keeper. The seller had got the dating wrong by almost 100 years and had thought that it is mid 19th century. It is actually about 1760. Anyway, he will have made a profit nevertheless, so I assume that he had acquired it for 500 € or even less. Long case clocks are really difficult to sell presently. That is even more true if it dated around 1900.Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
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