One more "Loss of Power" place to check...

[MuseChaser]

This is probably already known by pretty much everyone here, although I haven't seen it written in many of the great threads about the quest for minimizing friction and maximizing power in these clocks. I've had once Schatz 49 that's been running fine for a few weeks, but never got the rotation of my other 49s. I compared its setup with the other two I have and noticed a couple things... its fork was lower (which made sense, but I had to do that to get it running ... it didn't have enough power to run with the fork up higher, and needed to be set just barely above fluttering level) and the jerky movement of the fork, which actually slightly reversed direction momentarily during travels back and forth I could now see was being caused by the entrance escape wheel teeth landing on the slanted face (impulse? my terminology knowledge is still lousy) of the entrance pallet. Sooo... adjusted the escapement and all that is now working well. Then raised the fork. Smoother motion... still not much more swing.

What the heck?!? Hmmm.. maybe it's just at the low end of the test wind. Let it down, and it had at least two full turns of wind on it. Nope, that wasn't it. DID notice, however, that the barrel didn't turn as smoothly and as easily as my other Schatz 49s when winding it. Hmmmm....

Turns out, the washer underneath the "8"-shaped retaining clip that fits over the winding arbor and click wheel must be slightly too thin, as it was putting pressure on the click wheel and binding the arbor. I loosened that screw about 1/4 of a turn, and I'm instantly way over 270 degrees again just like the other 49s.

Sooo.. for those here as inexperienced as I (if there IS anyone like that here)... that's one more place to check.

 

[Schatznut]

That's an excellent tip! I'll file that away in my mental archives. Thanks!

 

[KurtinSA]

Help me understand how that click bridge, washer, and ratchet wheel were binding the arbor and creating lower power for the clock. The click bridge is essentially there to keep the ratchet wheel on the arbor. Of course the click and click spring are there to engage the wheel and hold the tension put into the main spring when wound. But the barrel spins around the arbor. The arbor is locked as a result of winding and barrel unwinds and puts that power into the first wheel. If the click bridge and the spacer washer were creating a problem with the barrel turning, then there must have been some really wrong with the hole in the plate...as in it needed to be bushed since it was wallowed out. I don't think I've seen that much wear on the holes in the plate for the winding arbor. Those bearing surfaces are only active whenever the clock is being wound, ideally once a year.

So I guess I'm not seeing how all of that can affect the power output of the main spring. I see that you made one small change and things got better, but I'm not seeing the connection.

Kurt

 

[MuseChaser]

Kurt.. you make good points and are making my head hurt trying to figure it out. Yes, once you've wound the clock, the arbor doesn't move and the barrel rotates around the arbor, and the click wheel keeps the arbor stationary. Perhaps the extra pressure on the click wheel was preventing the arbor from centering in the hole on the back plate, in turn causing it to also place asymmetrical pressure on the bearing surface of the hole of the barrel's cover plate? I have no idea.. I just know that once I loosened that screw enough so it didn't add any extra resistance as I was winding the clock, the clock ran MUCH better. As a matter fact, since I posted the first time, the clock has increased to about 310 degrees of rotation... and it had been running at only about 190 before these adjustments. In any case, I'm pretty thrilled!

 

[KurtinSA]

We seem to agree that the connection between the click bridge and the main spring is tenuous, nonetheless you made the one change and things worked. Hard to argue with success! But I wonder if there isn't another reason that really explains what actually happened. Again, with a clock running that well, I wouldn't touch it either! So, if/when you have to go back into the clock for some reason, maybe pull this scenario back up and look a little deeper. It would be interesting to see what you find.

Kurt

 

[Wayne A]

Possibly a rub in the spring barrell that corrected it self after cycling, wind up let down. I always wind up and then let down my main springs after installing the cover with this in mind.

 

[MartinM]

That is an odd one, for sure.

 

[MuseChaser]

OK... after a sleepless night (OK.. not really.. but I did ponder this quite a bit), I got up this morning and pulled apart a spare movement I have on hand to take another look to see if what I was originally suggesting was possible. It sure doesn't seem to be. The keeper could definitely bind the click and arbor making it difficult to wind, but there doesn't seem to be any way it could interfere with the free rotation of the barrel once wound. I'm embarrassed... I thought I was on to something and was trying to pay back at least a small portion of the great help you all have given me.

In the interest of "science," I've retightened down the click retaining click again on the clock in question, and will see if it inexplicably loses power over the next few hours. Until doing so, it was up to about 320 degrees of rotation. Will report back. My apologies for what is almost assuredly a red-herring.

 

[MuseChaser]

And... the verdict is already in. The clock, with the click retainer tightened down hard and after being started with 180 degrees of rotation total (a quarter rotation wind to one side), has already picked up to almost 270 degrees on its own after a matter of minutes. Soo... I was completely wrong. As others have said, the tension on the click retainer had nothing to do with it. I jumped to conclusions. Getting the escape set correctly, which allowed me to raise the fork, seems to be what did it. I just didn't give it enough time to see that when I noticed that the arbor was turning so stiffly when let it down and rewound it. Who knows.

My apologies. Rolling out the pastry and gathering the crows now.

 

[KurtinSA]

Thanks! That was good thinking to recreate the situation that you "corrected" and scientifically note the results. Nice job!

Kurt