Omega pocket watch....

PJQL

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Hi all,

I have what seems to be a nice silver-cased Omega movement.
It has no visible serial numbers on the plate...just the logo. The case is stamped London 1909. Could anyone date the movement for me please ?
(The pallet lever is missing unfortunately ! The movement spins around fine when you turn the crown though. )
Also, two other points:
(a) The jewels caps seem to be a mix of ruby and diamond (inc' endstone)...is this usual ? I haven't seen that before:
(b) The balance is double-cut bi-metallic and has 18 screws in place,...(which look gold, but could be copper?)...and 7 out of nine on each side are set directly adjacent to each cut. Does this kind of adjustment signify anything in particular ?

Thanks as always

Piers
 

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gmorse

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Hi Piers,

The number in the case could be the movement number as well, as it seems to be original, which comes out a little later at 1913/14, (these numbers are admittedly approximate, and WW1 might have got in the way of things somewhat), but I stand to be corrected on this. Is there a calibre number stamped under the balance?

Some of the jewels could be sapphires rather than rubies, (it's the same stuff after all, just a different colour).

The balance screws look like the usual set, with the ones nearer the open ends for adjustment for temperature, and the 4 timing screws, (or quarter screws, with different heads and not screwed fully home), right next to the crossings and at 90 degrees. More screws here could just indicate that the balance was a little light. Could well be gold screws as it's a decent quality watch.

Regards,

Graham
 
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eri231

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means that someone mess with the screws. the screws are near the cut for temperature compensation (but are you sure the balance cut off?)
regards enrico
 

PJQL

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Thanks a lot Graham.

I actually used the conventional London date letter guide, as I assumed the import mark would be used with the same table.....is that my error ?

I take it the mix of jewel caps is nothing really significant then.
As for the balance screws....that's really helpful. I haven't yet learned to distinguished between timing screws and temp' adjustments ! From what you say, I assume then that all temperature adjustment screws would always be closer to the cut ?
 

gmorse

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Hi Enrico,

There's certainly nothing between the banking pins . . .

Regards,

Graham
 

PJQL

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means that someone mess with the screws. the screws are near the cut for temperature compensation (but are you sure the balance cut off?)
regards enrico
Hi Enrico...are you saying that it doesn't look right ?
 

eri231

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DSC_4724.jpg

missing screws and to me appear a uncut balance,the cu balance is tilted this cut is vertical
regards enrico
 

PJQL

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Hi Enrico,

There's certainly nothing between the banking pins . . .

Regards,

Graham
Graham/Enrico,

The lever is absent.....but the rest of the movement is ok. The balance oscillates freely too. Do we think that the screws are as they should be ?
Piers
 

eri231

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220px-Pocket_Watch_Balance_Wheel.jpg

Bimetallic temperature compensated balance wheel, from an early 1900s pocket watch. 17 mm dia. (1) Moving opposing pairs of weights closer to the ends of the arms increases temperature compensation. (2) Unscrewing pairs of weights near the spokes slows the oscillation rate. Adjusting a single weight changes the poise, or balance.
regards enrico
 

PJQL

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Thanks Enrico.......good explanation......excellent picture !
 

PJQL

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Hi Enrico...it's about 37.5mm diameter
There are no more numbers anywhere that I can see.
 

doug sinclair

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There may be a serial number on the pillar plate. If so, looking between the train wheel and balance bridges, you may find a serial number. The cuts in the balance wheel appear to have not been cut all the way through. Therefore, any reference to temperature compensation, and moving screws to increase or decrease temperature compensation has no bearing on this watch. There are meantime screws which often appear to be loose because they aren't screwed in all the way. They are effective for altering the rate of a watch to bring the watch to time with the regulator index centered.
 

gmorse

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Hi Piers,

No, the same date letters apply within each assay office for imports and "home-grown" marks. The date discrepancy is more likely to be due to the vagueries of Omega's numbering system, (if that number is actually relevent at all).

Enrico raises an interesting point; are the cuts in the balance all the way through or just in the top half? The temperature screws don't necessarily all live near the free end, just the nearer they are to it, the greater the effect that they exert. However, this only applies if the balance is really cut right through, and if not, the "temperature" screws are largely cosmetic, although the timing screws still have their normal function. If you want to know more about timing and springing and such matters, get a copy of Donald de Carle's "Practical Watch Adjusting".

Regards,

Graham
 

PJQL

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Graham/Enrico/Doug...

No numbers that i can find....and the balance is definitely fully cut. ( If it hadn't been I would have been surprised on an Omega...having said which, you live and learn !)

Thanks for the literary reference Graham.
 

Skutt50

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I want to remember that some Omega's have a serial number under the dial. I have a few "early" movements like that.

The jewels in these older watches sometimes are glass clear, some times pink and yet some dark red.

I would not be surprised if the glass clear jewel(s) is a replacement during repair.
 

LloydB

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I want to remember that some Omega's have a serial number under the dial. I have a few "early" movements like that.

[snipped
Yes... an Omega we worked with a few years back had useful
numbers under the dial -- a serial number, and more importantly
one that identified the calibre of our Omega movement: 8760

That helped greatly, to find a needed part.
 

PJQL

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Thanks for that input Skutt50 and LloydB.

I'm a bit reticent to remove the dial, as it appears 'fixed' at one side. I may have to rely on all experts guys for your judgements.
 

gmorse

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Hi Piers,

If there are no dial foot screws in evidence in the back of the dial plate, (I can't see any in the pictures), it's probably held in by tiny screws in the edge of the movement, to access which you'll need to take the movement out of the case.

Regards,

Graham
 

Skutt50

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To take the movement out of the case you need to remove the winding stem by loosening the small screw at about 12 o'clock and pull the crown and stem out in one piece.

Then you need to remove the two screws holding the movement to the rim of the case and finally open the front bezel. The movement should fall out in your hand but sometimes you need to wiggle it a little.

Once the movement is removed there are two options. If there is a protective ring around the edge of the movement you need to remove it before you can access the dial screws.

The dial screws should be clearly visible beeing sunked into the side of the main plate of the movement.
You do not need to remove the dial screws, only loosen them a few turns. (They can be a bit tricky to get back in place if you are not used to dealing with them ....)
 

PJQL

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Graham/Skutt,

Ok.....I went for it....! And lo and behold, what did I find on the dial plate ?....3607733 :D

Also, on the reverse side of the dial is what looks like HK or MK and the number 395. I'll post a couple of pics later today.

Quote Skutt50 "....You do not need to remove the dial screws, only loosen them a few turns. (They can be a bit tricky to get back in place if you are not used to dealing with them..."

Hmm....very true....:(

Good grief...I'm such a watch mechanic :excited:
 

PJQL

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Ha...thanks !! ;)
 

PJQL

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From the numbers...I make that about 1908 ?....ish ?
 

PJQL

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Rats...thought I had it !
 

PJQL

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Looks a great place Enrico !
 

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