Older Urgos movements that will not adjust?!

NEW65

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Hi chaps.
Im rebuilding an old urgos mechanical movement weight driven on chains.
However I am concerned because I see no way of adjusting this! It’s one of those movements where you have to position the gears before closing the plates? (I think). Or have I been mistaken over the years?
Here’s a picture showing things more clearly:
D02006F1-D49D-4B0C-874B-F60BA37FD161.jpeg
There appears to be no adjustment screws to simplify setting up the timing of the clock after assembly!
Please let me know your thoughts on this type of movement? Am I really facing setting this up just before reassembly? I’ve had this carry on with Urgos movenents before. Or am I missing something here?
I am starting work on this soon. Thank you as always.
Simon
Ps in the picture the chime train is set at quarter to the hour- hopefully you’ll see the cam with the tab of the lever located in place and the chime stop pin.
 
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wow

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We need more photos of the front of the movement. What model is it? What are you trying to adjust? Timing? Chimes? Give more details, please.
 
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NEW65

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Cheers wow. I’m facing a situation where upon re assembly, there’s no method of setting the timing of the quarter chime. I will add more pictures. I have had this set up many times before with the older Urgos movements and it seems the only way of setting the chimes is to reassemble the movement with the wheels in the right place! It’s not easy to do this.
Thanks
 

wow

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Cheers wow. I’m facing a situation where upon re assembly, there’s no method of setting the timing of the quarter chime. I will add more pictures. I have had this set up many times before with the older Urgos movements and it seems the only way of setting the chimes is to reassemble the movement with the wheels in the right place! It’s not easy to do this.
Thanks
I have never seen an Urgos movement in which the chime train cannot be adjusted after assembly. I would like to see those photos and find out what model Urgos movements you are referring to so I can avoid this problem when I do get one in my shop.
 
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shutterbug

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There are a very few movements that require internal parts and wheels be set up as you rebuild the movement. The ST 113 is one such beast. I can't tell from the photo if you might run into issues with it, but my instinct is that you can adjust it after it's assembled.
 
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NEW65

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Thanks chaps. I will get back to you soon on this, the movement needs a lot of work doing, lots of sloppy pivots etc but luckily some of the wear has occurred in bushings that were fitted over 20 yrs ago so that will make life easier!
Thanks again.
 

NEW65

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I have rebushed the clock movement which I thought was an Urgos . However I don’t think it is now but there are no markings anywhere on the plates of this movement. Some of you people may identify the make/model?
I fitted 9 new bushings which included 3 chain wheels etc., I also replaced some of the old worn bushings by driving them and fitting new.
Please check out the video that I have uploaded.
The movement is set at quarter to the hour. However although I figured out how to reset the quarter chime, there’s something missing from this movement as the auto sync doesn’t work. I thought the chime lift was lifting to high but definitely not that!
If you all check out the video , you will see the stop hook , but there’s no cam on the arbor of the chime stop for the hook to locate?! Or ami missing something? One thing is for certain though, the clock does not reset if the chime sequence is disturbed eg using the silencing feature . Here’s the video, I’ve done my best to show you the movement.


Thanks
 
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Dave T

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I think this movement shows the combination chime locking lever and chime correction lever.
The depth of this lever is critical to proper operation. Not too deep and not too shallow.
 
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disciple_dan

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It looks very Urgoish to me. Is it missing a pin on the backside of the strike stop wheel? Does that hook catch a pin to hold until the top of the hour when out of sync?
 
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NEW65

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Thanks everyone.
wow, I will film it chiming and add another video by tomorrow.
Dave, you may well be right what you say about the depth adjustment. I did cross my mind too. I’ll make a few adjustments and check that out. Thanks.
Dan, the hook that you mention has nothing nearby for it to be of any use? It’s very odd. I keep thinking that the last clock repairman who overhauled this movement over 20 years ago, missed out a part linked with this hook?? Maybe a cam on the chime stop arbor? How can the auto sync operate with a non functioning stop hook ?
It’s looking as if I’m going to have to return this movement back to the owner and advise them not to use the silencing device. It’s not my doing. I’ve made a great job of the rebuild, just a shame about this.
Thanks chaps :)
 

Willie X

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Tip, don't loosen the adjustment set screw in order to adjust the hook. Make sure the screw is tight but just loose enough to allow 'forcing' the hook. This way you can nudge it to exactly the right place and it will stay. Some are pinned, they can still be forced up or down.

I worked on two UW32s today, one in a Ridgeway case and the other an Ethan Allen. Both were about 45 years old, a little "worse for wear" but chugging rite along ... :)

Willie X
 
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NEW65

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Hopefully video of the clock chiming the quarters will show what’s going on more clearly. Ive
However the stop hook has no involvement with anything? It looks to me if the chime stop wheel has a broken stop pin or maybe it’s the wrong wheel?
Hope the video helps wow :)
Thanks Dan for the informative pictures. Very clear demonstrating the auto sync. This one only had one stop hook compared to your arrangement. To be honest I just cannot figure what is wrong with this movement, the stop hook is doing nothing at all Dan. I’ve never seen this arrangement before!
Thanks Willie, great idea to make very small adjustments. I hate adjusting the depths of the stop hooks! Always tricky !!
 
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NEW65

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Yep, everything looks fine but auto sync not working. However I am still left wondering why. That hook serves no purpose! The clock was serviced about 30 yrs ago by a reputable watchmaker. He fitted numerous bushings but a family member who owned the clock said they had never turned the chimes off since the service! I suppose they never noticed that the clock had a problem then? I have been in touch today and explained the issue that I’ve found. They will be happy to leave the clock running apparently. Of course they may well mess it up if the time has to be reset !
I spent 15 hours on that movement and to be honest I’m quite disappointed that I haven’t managed to get it right.
 

MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

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Hi chaps.
Im rebuilding an old urgos mechanical movement weight driven on chains.
However I am concerned because I see no way of adjusting this! It’s one of those movements where you have to position the gears before closing the plates? (I think). Or have I been mistaken over the years?
Here’s a picture showing things more clearly:
View attachment 663841
There appears to be no adjustment screws to simplify setting up the timing of the clock after assembly!
Please let me know your thoughts on this type of movement? Am I really facing setting this up just before reassembly? I’ve had this carry on with Urgos movenents before. Or am I missing something here?
I am starting work on this soon. Thank you as always.
Simon
Ps in the picture the chime train is set at quarter to the hour- hopefully you’ll see the cam with the tab of the lever located in place and the chime stop pin.
You are correct. The older German mechanisms had to be adjusted internally. I believe Hermle came up with the brilliant idea of making the adjustments external.
 

Dave T

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The Urgos 06 series is discussed in Steven G. Conover's "Chime Clock Repair".
I'm still not sure which movement you have, but should be very similar.

Would be good if you could show some pictures of the whole movement.
 

NEW65

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Dave, I’m unsure if the movement is Urgos , I guessed that it maybe an Urgos but there’s no markings anywhere on the plates.
I will add more pictures , it’s now up and running on a test stand and looking okay.
However it’s going to need at least 2 week running time as these old type of movements have a way of suddenly messing up.
Thanks Dave
 

NEW65

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Mark, yes, thank goodness for improvements in design!
I was fortunate when I did another old Urgos movement a few months ago. I had reassembled the movement but had forgotten to set the gears before I closed the plates!
Luckily the stepped cam on the arbor of the chime count wheel (where the lever locates at 3/4), was a friction fit and I was able to rotate the cam on the arbor to set the timing!
Thanks Mark
 

NEW65

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Update:
Clock movement now completed and running well. It took numerous adjustments before I managed to get to this stage. It’s always the way with these old mechanisms and I’d say they need to be run for 2-3 weeks before they leave the shop!
 

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