Old, Dirty & Forgotten ?

Allan C. Purcell

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This watch showed up on eBay last week, and in most cases, I would have ignored it. The impression given by the photographs at first was a dirty old verge pocket watch that needed lots of work on it. Out of boredom, I took another look and then saw the cock, which to say the least, is not common. Then something started at the back of my mind about the name above the cock, A. Hollison, Liverpool, and slowly the penny dropped.

OO-3.jpg

While writing up "The Book" (Remember all those names in Osborn´s repair book) I had at that time had trouble sorting out the names of Chas, Hollison London, and Alexander Hollison, Liverpool. So I dug out my copy, and there it was on page 17 A: HOLLISON; LIVERPOOL; NUMBER 5641. Not only did I find it, but it was also the first one I came to. It was brought into Osborn´s shop for repair by its owner, a Mr Parson 12/9/1817, and the record says "Main Spring & Click $0.75. Now 203 years later it is on its way to Germany, it will need more than seventy-five cents spent on it, though the seller says it's all there. (chain not broken but not fitted)

OO-2.jpg

The case seems to be the original. The Birmingham letter "n" for 1811. The case maker GT for Geroge Thickbroom, Coventry, 1808-13.

OO-4.jpg
The crystal he says is also in good condition, and only the one scratch on the dial. (looks more like a crack?)
I do though have a problem with those hands, does anyone know if they too could be original?

OO-1.jpg OO-6.jpg

The movement will need a good cleaning, but at the moment its wait and see time.

OO-5.jpg

This should clean up fine, and when finished, I think I will have a very nice watch to remind me of "The Book"

Will let you know how it turns out, this year maybe.

Allan

SO-2.jpg Another look at the cock-one for Ray. Not Forgotten.
 
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Allan C. Purcell

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If Allan's reference to The Book was arcane, as it was to me, see "The Book"-A peep through the window of Time

Hi Ethan, if you look at the last post above it will all be clear.(Thanks for putting the book on here)
Finding that A. Hollison watch was like finding Capt.Morgan´s hidden treasure, and a bottle of rum too.

Best wishes, Allan and to all members, stay indoors and stay healthy..
 
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LloydB

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[QUOTE="Allan C. Purcell,\ Out of boredom, I took another look and then saw the cock, which to say the least, is not common. Then something started at the back of my mind about the name above the cock, A. Hollison, Liverpool, and slowly the penny dropped. View attachment 577925 [snipped]

So I dug out my copy, and there it was on page 17 A: HOLLISON; LIVERPOOL; NUMBER 5641. Not only did I find it, but it was also the first one I came to. It was brought into Osborn´s shop for repair by its owner, a Mr Parson 12/9/1817, and the record says "Main Spring & Click $0.75. Now 203 years later it is on its way to Germany, it will need more than seventy-five cents spent on it, though the seller says it's all there. (chain not broken but not fitted)
[snipped][/QUOTE]

What a marvelous find -- now with that
amazing provenance.

It may take a few years to identify all
of the subsequent owners... ;-)
 

John Cote

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What a great find. I am very glad you thought and looked again and that it is now in the hands of someone who will love it. More pix when you get it sorted out please.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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So thanks to Ethan, I took another look at what I had written last year about the Hollison´s in Loomes and others. My thoughts then are in the last four posts of the Book above. So this morning I looked and found the movement I have of J.A. Hollison, Liverpool. I am now convinced that A.Hollison and J.A. Hollison are one and the same man, or father and son. It would be helpful if more of his watches could turn up here.

OO-10.JPG I had thought these birds on here were Ho Ho birds, but now think the are Cormorants, so two Liver birds?? Where is DaveyG when you need him?


Above is numbered 9660 and this one 5641, so 4219 watches between them, and that is why I think the father-son could be right? Can anyone tell me what those two birds and a snake have in common??



SO-2.jpg
 
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jboger

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Possibly a dragon and two phoenix? These are Chinese symbols to this day. You see them at weddings, for example. The dragon is male, and the phoenix is female. A marriage is a union of the two. England had extensive trade with the Far East. Just look at those fabulous collections of Chinese porcelain that the English aristocracy accumulated three hundred years ago, some of which depicted the dragon and phoenix. And these symbols found their way to other objects as well.

Still, why two birds? So this is not entirely satisfactory.
 

LloydB

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[snipped]
View attachment 578110 I had thought these birds on here were Ho Ho birds, but now think the are Cormorants, so two Liver birds?? Where is DaveyG when you need him?

Can anyone tell me what those two birds and a snake have in common??
View attachment 578112
Isn't that a Swan, swimming on the
water? (The engraver's rendering is
awful, IMO.)

Swans and Cormorants have in common:
1) both are associated with water;
2) both are found in heraldry;
3) there are recipes for both. :emoji_shallow_pan_of_food::emoji_poultry_leg: ;-)
 
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PatH

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I think I would vote for 3 phoenix - perhaps that is their crest of feathers above the ones on each side, with the third's crest not raised?
 

LloydB

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...so two Liver birds?? Where is DaveyG when you need him?
https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/121-2-Wall.pdf

"To sum up, so far as it ever existed, the Liver bird of Liverpool
originated in the eagle of St John and became a Cormorant at
some time in the early sixteenth century. It was for long wrongly
identified by some with the Shoveller Duck, through a further
confusion with the Spoonbill. This latter bird was certainly known
for a time in English by the alternative name Lever, from Low Dutch
and German antecedents, hence its attribution to Lever-Pool,
a place-name to which it bears only a phonetic similarity."

Allen, I can only hope that the Swan is a bit less ambiguous ;-)
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Well, Well, what people do in there spare time. though I have to admit I thought the swan was a snake, but am now convinced it´s a Swan unless someone knows better. I knew the bit about the Lever-birds, and in the main, there is usually only one, on the cock somewhere. So the next question is, what does two Ho Ho birds and a Swan run down to?? Those Lever birds on the attachment look nothing like the Ho Ho birds but look as if they could cook well, as to Swans I belive there were eaten way back, but are now serving Her Majesty. (I believe you can get a curried Swan on the darknet Lloyd)

Pat, I am still working on your point of view. Did you like "Dinner for One"?
 

Allan C. Purcell

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OO-11.jpg I looked up the Phoenix on the net, and I think this is what Pat was trying to tell us. Fits perfectly in this time of worry.


OO-12.jpg Though this one caught my eye, the artistry and talent took my breath away.

Keep indoors and stay healthy,

Allan
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Well, the watch as arrived, and I am more than pleased. It actually arrived last Friday, but with this corona business, they just stuck a chit through the door saying I could pick it up after 10.00Hrs Monday in Applehusen, which is miles away from where I live. So I went and fetched it this morning. After lunch, I gave it a surficial cleaning and made it ready for a full overhaul when my watchmaker as time.

OO-7.jpg eBay photograph AAA-1.JPG Now


OO-5.jpg The rear outer cover then AAA-2.JPG Today-So it´s come up well.


AAA-4.JPG AAA-5.JPG AAA-7.JPG Has to the movement, it is as the seller said, the chain is there but not attached and the fusee wobbles. (Not be touched) The fire gilding is very good and looks far better than on these photographs. So I think it will be about four or five months before we see it finished and running.

Allan
 

Allan C. Purcell

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I take it you all now know this watch was made by the "Rotheram & Company of Coventry along with the Ho Ho Birds, I was really down in the dumps at first (Coventry fakes.deary deary me) I have since got over it, and my doctor says just buy another Liverpool watch. Cheered me up no end. I was going to do a file on the Rotherhams, but have now decided to leave it alone, it´s all been done before, For those interested in the firm, I can highly recommend "Rotherham & Sons" by David Boettcher on the net, 15 pages telling the whole story.

Keep fit,

Allan,

If you read this Lloyd, could you please send me a PM?
 
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