Odo Carillon Identification

hyperdqh

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Hi,
I own this Odo carillon, but after a while learning, I am skeptical about this carillon case !? It doesn't seem like Odo clock !? The carillon face is also very strange because of its large size (22cm) despite the "Odo" logo printed! Is this an original carillon Odo !? and what time is it produced !?
Thank you

B7F3B10A-AFE0-42C5-AC2F-97F2118EDF95.jpeg 5C5FD7F6-F073-4A65-95FE-CCA9953460AE.jpeg 77BB9A43-A784-43F4-B273-8C8A01C3A756.jpeg 873BB49E-08CA-41C0-A3A0-371485BD81F2.jpeg
 

J. A. Olson

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Welcome to the NAWCC. I agree the case and dial look more like what was made during the 1930's while the movement was made later on. If the clock is a marriage of parts it is among the more professionally-done examples. The movement should play Westminster and another melody - likely Gai Carillon de Scotto - and bim-bam strikes the hours, which is a feature unique to Odo clocks.
 

hyperdqh

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Welcome to the NAWCC. I agree the case and dial look more like what was made during the 1930's while the movement was made later on. If the clock is a marriage of parts it is among the more professionally-done examples. The movement should play Westminster and another melody - likely Gai Carillon de Scotto - and bim-bam strikes the hours, which is a feature unique to Odo clocks.
Thank so much! The movement play Westminster and Gai Carillon, with logo ODO on Rectangular
With the information collect on NAWCC, I also thought this watch was produced in the 1930s! But I suspect the origin of the clock shell and the face (Size 22cm, larger than the usual size 20 cm), although the face of the watch is printed with "Odo" logo
Thanks so much for more informations on it
Rgs
 

J. A. Olson

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Descriptive literature from a 1950's Odo catalog give the following music scores and even lyrics for the hour chime.

Odo Chimes.png

The lyrics for the top of hour:

C'est l'heure qui sonna ou gai carillon.
Au gai carillon Odo.


The hour strikes are incorporated as "O-DO".

Vincent Scotto was a renowned French composer, leading a lengthy career with over 4000 composed musical works. He also wrote 60 operettas and took part in a variety of feature films. A more extensive biography can be found here: Vincent Scotto - Biographie

Vincent_Scotto_02.jpg

Unfortunately further information regarding his involvement with Odo has not yet been discovered. The majority of Gai Carillon chime clocks spotted on auction or in collections appear to be from the 1950s-onward period. Odo clocks that play this chime turn up frequently in France and Vietnam, but are exceedingly rare elsewhere. I do not think I've ever seen such a clock locally (I currently live in Wisconsin).
 

hyperdqh

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Descriptive literature from a 1950's Odo catalog give the following music scores and even lyrics for the hour chime.

View attachment 518193

The lyrics for the top of hour:

C'est l'heure qui sonna ou gai carillon.
Au gai carillon Odo.


The hour strikes are incorporated as "O-DO".

Vincent Scotto was a renowned French composer, leading a lengthy career with over 4000 composed musical works. He also wrote 60 operettas and took part in a variety of feature films. A more extensive biography can be found here: Vincent Scotto - Biographie

View attachment 518197

Unfortunately further information regarding his involvement with Odo has not yet been discovered. The majority of Gai Carillon chime clocks spotted on auction or in collections appear to be from the 1950s-onward period. Odo clocks that play this chime turn up frequently in France and Vietnam, but are exceedingly rare elsewhere. I do not think I've ever seen such a clock locally (I currently live in Wisconsin).
It's very interesting, I know a place in Aix-en-Provence City (France) named Vincent Scotto when I lived in France 10 years agos.
#chimeclockfan have you full version of Odo's catalog? Can you share it by scan file or picture? Thanks alots
 

hyperdqh

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It is true that most Odo clocks now stay in France (country of origin) and Vietnam (because the French peoples brought them to Vietnam during the war) and the Vietnamese of the next generation inherited and collect them because the Odo clocks bell has entered the subconscious of the Vietnamese people.
 

J. A. Olson

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The catalog page came from NAWCC member Any400day, who had a collection of old catalogs which were in the process of being digitally scanned. He has not been active for a while so it has not been possible to get in contact with him. Occasionally old catalogs do turn up for sale on auction sites like eBay.

Some of these clocks - from Odo and other French-regional brands - were brought over to Vietnam during the 1930's, became popular with the Vietnamese people, and have more recently demanded further importation of these clocks. Since 2008 there have been several Vietnamese antiques dealers on Youtube who have showcased clocks from Odo and other brands. The actual sales listings appear to be done on other websites.

The rise of global auction sites such as eBay has also made it much easier to import antique clocks from different countries.
 

MikClock

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Hi,
I own this Odo carillon, but after a while learning, I am skeptical about this carillon case !? It doesn't seem like Odo clock !? The carillon face is also very strange because of its large size (22cm) despite the "Odo" logo printed! Is this an original carillon Odo !? and what time is it produced !?
Thank you

View attachment 517879 View attachment 517880 View attachment 517881 View attachment 517882
This is an old post but I have been researching the ODO clocks recently for myself and thought I would offer some info:

The size of the face is rather common for ODO chiming clocks in the pre-WWII years. The short/long sides of the octagonal dial is also consistent.
The case is definitely in the style of cases from the 1930s.
I have some poor photos of a 37-38 catalog that could well have this case in it - can't tell whether acorns or strawberries were the motif or what!
Cat-Odo-1937-38-4.jpg

The movement is stamped 36 which is an indicator of the pendulum length. This coding was used for movements 24, 30, and 36.
However, the 24cm line was then coded as 54, 57, 58, 62 for year of manufacture.
I do not say this with absolute authority. I have been able to communicate with some Vietnamese collectors who know quite a lot about ODO clocks. But that is what they say, and it has proven true in my observations.

I can see 6 + 4 hammers which generally indicates it plays Westminster and Le Gai Carillon tunes.
Do you have the copper chimes for the hour strike and steel for the melodies? I do not know if this was strictly the case, but they produced these with that combination to soften the hour strike and let the melody stand out.

The Odobez brothers founded the ODO clock company in 1920.
In 1931 they launched the "famous carillon clocks present in all homes". (i.e. chiming clocks)
Vincent Scotto composed the Gai tune in 1937.
So your clock would be no older than 1937.
Understandably, not much was produced in the '40s due to being in the war and then recovering from it.
I have never seen a post-WWII ODO chiming box clock with the face proportions used pre-war. Postwar faces all seem to be wider than they are tall. Some prewar faces are also wider but equal proportions in the faces seem to cease being produced after the war.
Therefore, I would expect your face (and movement) to belong to the case in which it resides - a pre-WWII clock.
A special thing about your clock is the embossed numerals. That was obviously a premium option over printed numerals.
I have only seen this once before from an old auction for a 36/10 ODO:
P-Odo-3610-1.jpeg
You may already know this but the prewar movements with the Gai tune are HIGHLY collectible. I just saw one in good condition sell for almost $6k.
I have seen many sell in various states of condition in different countries but always for the equivalent of thousands of dollars.
Because I have never seen one with embossed numerals and in good condition like yours, I expect it would fetch a premium.
Why do these ODO Gai box clocks command such a premium?
Several reasons contribute:
- The first Gai carillons were only made a couple years before the war (limited number).
- The cheerful Gai tune is exclusive to the ODO brand and a standout amongst the many tunes offered in those years.
- The pre-WWII ODO carillons had longer chime rods and produce a richer, deeper sound some people prefer.
- The physical proportions of the case and the face are notably different as I mentioned above - also a matter of preference.
- Pre-WWII style is Art Deco while postwar clocks reflected mid-century styling - another item of preference.

If you find one of these at a flea market or garage sale for peanuts, that will be your lucky day!
Cheers!
- MIk
 

MikClock

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The movement is stamped 36 which is an indicator of the pendulum length. This coding was used for movements 24, 30, and 36.
However, the 24cm line was then coded as 54, 57, 58, 62 for year of manufacture.
Correction to the above statement:
The 24cm line was coded as 54, 57, 58, 62 for the FIRST year of manufacture of that movement.
In other words, I do not know when they ceased to make particular movements in the 1950s as I think you could have purchased a 57 movement in 1959 for example.
 

J. A. Olson

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Don't have the day and year for when ODO stopped producing their own movements but if you look around long and hard, you'll find ODO clocks from the 1980's-1990's which utilize German Hermle movements. The movement is an adapted 1050 series which will play Gai Carillon, Ave Maria, Westminster chimes on 12 rods. Anyone would think Hermle may have some archived reference to these clocks but they've never been brought up in publication.

 
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zyx123

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Hello,

From looking at my Odo catalogs I can offer some observations (I'm still missing catalogs from 1933 to 1936 and 1941 to 1948). Please note that as I do not have every Odo's catalog, the dates can only be approximate.

Odo used different logo's in their history, the Odo logo on the clock face in the first post appeared in the catalogs from 1931 to the late 1940s. the logo changed in 1948\9 and again in 1952, 1956 and 1959.

This clock decorative style (flowers or fruit and the door handle) was more common in the late 1930s to late 1940s. I found 18 clocks in the 1937 catalog and only 5 clocks in the 1955 catalog.


The 1930s clocks size was 60 x 35-40cm while the late 40s and 50s the clocks became shorter and wider around 40 x 50cm.

The Gai Carillon melody is showing in the 1937 catalog but can even be early.


Sharon


Odo logo 1931 to late 40s.jpg Odo 1937-1938 p1.jpg
 
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MikClock

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Don't have the day and year for when ODO stopped producing their own movements ...
I did some research on French archival sites and here is some of what I have found:
The Odobez family of clockmakers goes back at least to early 1800s when working on the big Comtois iron-cage movements.
Leon Odobez obtained patents to improve on the old iron-cage movements and was producing Grandfather clocks by 1885.
This was all around Morbier.
Andre and Roger Odobez form the ODO company in the early '20s and built a factory in Morez in 1936. (Recent photo below)
1660000284466.png
Meanwhile Les Fils de F. Romanet (sometimes marked as FFR) built a factory in Morbier in 1951. Added to it in '61.
Opened a second unit in Domblans in '74 but went bankrupt by '81.
This is when the quartz revolution rocked the time-keeping world.
The FFR factory was taken over in '84 by S. A. Productions Romanet which was actually funded by ODO.
ODO had already sold the Morez factory to the eyewear company Marius Morel around '64 and was consolidating operations.
By 1990, ODO had transferred everything to the old FFR factory it had purchased earlier. (Photo of Morbier factory when it was FFR below)
1660000972356.png
In '92, ODO's production was divided into 20% high-end eyewear in Domblans and 80% clock manufacture in Morbier (above).
They were producing approximately 3,000 carillons (or chiming clocks) per year at that point with the wood cases being manufactured in Domblans. A total of about 40,000 clocks along with electric alarm clocks were produced at that time.
140 people worked at ODO in 1992: half in Morbier and half in Domblans.
The ODO factory would be the last French factory of mechanical movements for chiming clocks.
The manufacturing cradle of the great French Comtois industry that began in the 17th century in Morez, would find new footing in the eyewear industry. By 1997, 55% of the world's production of metal-framed eyewear was being produced by 2850 people working in the Morez factories.
But the subsequent economic crisis led to shifting production to Asian countries and the closure of the industry in France.

ODO was probably one of the most influential and important clock manufacturers in France.
The Odobez family demonstrated remarkable creativity in bringing new products to market and understanding the ever-changing tastes of the public until they sold in 2001. Excerpted/expanded from a French article below:

First marketing "stroke of genius": asking Vincent Scotto to compose an exclusive melody for ODO.
Michel Odobez: "Scotto was a star before the war and it was a real novelty. With the Westminster, everyone had the same chime, you had to find something to stand out."
During the war, they shut down.
Michel: "We refused to work with the Germans!"
After the war, they used radio advertising and the "Cuckoo waltz" in their ad became a sort of French phenomenon where everyone was humming the tune.
In 1955, they launched the Jaquemart clocks. These are the ones with the little bell-ringing automaton. They were a hit.
Later as the industry began to consolidate, ODO swallowed FFR, Girod and Les Amoureux de Peynet.
Girod had an electric clock that ODO repurposed.
ODO was the first to offer electric alarm clocks, before Jaz or Bayard. The movement was battery-operated while the alarm ran on a spring.

I think I saw someone suggest in another post that because they found a photo of the old FFR factory building with the ODO name on it that ODO's movements were only repackaged FFR movements.
ODO had a well-established clock design and fabrication operation long before they took over the FFR facilities. I suppose it is possible that they may have purchased rights to use FFR movements but I suspect only if they had something rather useful that ODO did not have. ODO did repurpose the electric clock by Girod. I know of nothing Girod made that showed up in ODO clocks.

When the family sold ODO in 2001, I believe it was a Vedette/ODO combination but I have been unable to find documentation to confirm this. Vedette is selling watches and clocks today but it almost appears like they are just a brand name.
If you can purchase an ODO clock with Hermle movement today, one may benefit from a recent movement by an active clock company and yet the historic Gai chime of the last century!
 

J. A. Olson

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The ODO/Hermle clocks had date codes corresponding to the late 1980's to mid 1990's timeframe however it's another field to be explored. They are completely foreign so I doubt American wholesalers of Hermle know anything about them and as usual there are no books written about these clocks. An ODO book would be novel but I think most collectors would rather have actual clocks instead.

Sadly the fate of many renowned clock companies was to dissolute and homogenize into little more than a brand name for marketing, with actual manufacture being undertaken elsewhere. Seth Thomas, Herschede, Waltham, Ansonia, the list goes on. Quality-associated names stamped on irrelevant trash.

The ODO/Hermle outlines were not quite as egregious since they retained the 'French box' style cases and ODO chime melodies. They were also done when the original company was still active as opposed to being usurped for branding long after the original company was gone.
It's possible that Hermle could still make the customary 1050 movement with ODO chimes if requested, but as usual in manufacturing it's 'go big or go home'. The only changes from a typical Hermle 1050 movement were the chime drum and corresponding gong unit.
 
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MikClock

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Sadly the fate of many renowned clock companies was to dissolute and homogenize into little more than a brand name for marketing,
It is sad. The old companies, often family-owned, worked for a profit but wanted to produce something with pride. What gets produced today seems to take no interest in pride of design and creation of a product but only the ruthless search for profit.

I think I am closer to solving the puzzle of the end of ODO / Vedette and maybe the clock you posted above with the Hermle movement.
The French article I read spoke of a union of Vedette and ODO which I could not confirm. However, I realize now they were referring to Union Horlogere proper - as in the company of that name.
Today, Union Horlogere's web site speaks only of its watchmaking history. However, in the following post, Sharon says the clock pictured is in the Union Horlogere '89-'90 catalog.:

It looks like the Odo brand exists even in 1992 in some way or another.
As you can see this clock has a modern chiming movement and the Odo logo.
I found this clock in a "Union Horlogere" 1989-90 catalog.

View attachment 294281 View attachment 294282 View attachment 294283 View attachment 294284

Sharon
The "ODO" and "Westminster" typeface looks like the one in the video you posted above. Does the movement look like the Hermle movement?
This one has the typical ODO stamp for pendulum length of 24cm and it looks like the split back ODO design although it almost looks like where the back plate should be split, it is just scored or something.

In any event, it sounds like the Odobez family sold ODO to Union Horlogere in 2001 and they seem to indicate Vedette went there as well.
Twenty years later, it now appears Union Horlogere does not even want to acknowledge that episode LOL.

Separately, I wish we could edit our posts on NAWCC.
In my last post I wrote, " I know of nothing Girod made that showed up in ODO clocks." right after I described the electric clock that ODO repurposed from Girod. (!)
I meant to write: I know of nothing made by FFR that showed up in ODO clocks.

- Mik
 
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J. A. Olson

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I don't have clear photos of the wall clock but in some video clips you can see the perforated plates and chime drum bridge, matching a Hermle 1050 series movement. Photos are always welcome but this isn't the type of clock that turns up for sale here in the states.

Photos of an ODO grandfather clock with Hermle movement. The same three chimes as the wall clock but in a traditionally styled case.
Bit more sheen and flare compared to an original but it was something for the crowd that didn't want a 'box'.
Movement date code: C - 1990. Strange gong rod unit with rods held in little collets.

Credit to 'Nhakho' clock shop for the photos, they've done wonders with selling these clocks in Vietnam. A real prosperous trade over there.

dong-ho-tu-cay-odo-t130.jpeg dong-ho-tu-cay-odo-t130-1.jpeg
dong-ho-tu-cay-odo-t130-2.jpeg dong-ho-tu-cay-odo-t130-3.jpeg
 
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J. A. Olson

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Browsing around and just found an ODO blog I hadn't seen until just a few minutes ago.
It's interesting to see how the ODO clock lineup had shifted by the 1970's, repro style grandfather clocks and modern small timepieces.

 
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Mike Phelan

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Ah - if only I could get hold of an ODO clock with the Gai Garillon chime, or just the movement ... :O:
 

J. A. Olson

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They turn up periodically on auction but as one may guess, they're often the target of substantial bidding wars which makes bargain-hunting very difficult. If one has a Hermle 1050 movement you could just change the drum and gong rods to replicate the ODO/Hermle layout shown a few posts above.

The most unusual subset of ODO's would have to be their entry in the Latin American trade, clocks playing Schubert's Ave Maria or Himno Guadalupano. They were sold under names including Europa and Ontario and were fashioned to Latin American stylistic tastes.

The sound is a complete contrast to the more familiar French/Vietnamese models.

 
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zyx123

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Here is the Odo company history,
  • In 1806, Jean-Baptiste Odobez, known as "Jean le Comtois" , was a craftsman in Tancua.
  • In 1843, François Désiré Odobez, also in Tancua, became a watchmaker and worked on the famous iron-cage movement.
  • In 1885 Léon Odobez started the Odobez father and son company, a Comtois clock factory in Morez.
  • The Odo company was created by the sons of Léon, André and Roger, in association with the Moret-es-Jean Barbaud family in 1920.
  • Michel and Guy Odobez, and their cousin Daniel, took over the business at the end of the 1950s.
  • During the WW2, the Odo factory stopped working as they refused to work with the Germans.
  • The FFR company (the sons of Félicien Romanet), which offered the brands FFR, Romantic and Arsène de la Combe and later became the Romanet production company was incorperated into the Odo company (I still do not know when).
  • The Girod company was taken over by Odo in the 1960s following financial difficulties.
  • Later on (I still do not have exact date) an economic grouping, Union horlogère, was created in the Jura. it included Vedette and Odo.
  • The Odo company was sold in 2001 and lasted until 2005.
The following information I conclude from reading my Union horlogère catalogs, any dates are approximately.

I have several Union horlogère catalogs spanning from 1975 to 1996 on all of them the Vedette and Odo logos were showing, for the time been I can say that the Union horlogère was working for at list 20 years.
Starting the 1986 the Junghans logo was add to the catalogs and since 1989 the Odo logo was replaced with Odobez.

In almost every Union horlogère you can find ODO grandfather clocks (Comtois like) and 1940-50's style wall clocks but I do believe they had more "modern" or other manufactures moments.

The 1961 catalog showed the following movement


Odo no30 p12.jpg

I have several Odo Jacquemart clocks from 1955 to 1970, all have a similar movements to the Odo movement "L"

Scanned-image-5-0.jpg

I do not know when Odo started sourcing movements from other manufactures or if the above movements were produced by Odo.

Sharon
 

PatH

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This is wonderful to have so much ODO history in one thread. Thanks to everyone who is helping our understanding of this evolution.
 

Mike Phelan

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They turn up periodically on auction but as one may guess, they're often the target of substantial bidding wars which makes bargain-hunting very difficult. If one has a Hermle 1050 movement you could just change the drum and gong rods to replicate the ODO/Hermle layout shown a few posts above.
That's very interesting indeed, Justin, I'll be looking into it. Might be PM'ing you. :)
 

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