Barr & Poole Odious Creaking of the Poole.

[H.Weiland]

I have a nice Poole clock that has started to make creaks. With each swing of the pendulum, it emits a unpleasent soft "creak". Since the pendulum beats rather quickly in this clock, it is most annoying.

Inside the case is a warning "Do Not Oil the Clock".

Certainly the makers knew that which was best for their clocks. That they were serious can be no question, there are no oil sinks provided in the plates.

My guess is the piviots of the pendulum "crutch" are the source. Now this clock only impulses when it needs more energy. It seems that it is impulsing more often than it used to. Therefore it appears that the movement does need some oil

Everything looks clean and bright. No rust or deterioration.

Have any of you come across a creaking Poole?

Thanks!

Henry Weiland

 

[Ralph]

Hi Henry,

By any chance, do you know the resistance value of the Poole coil? ..or better yet, the Barr coil.

Ern Grover was looking for those values recently.

Thanks, Ralph

 

[eskmill]

I suspect Henry that the Poole/Barr battery clock caution "do not oil" was a reaction by the makers due to clocks returned gummed up with oil.

Certainly there are certain places in the Poole/Barr clock that cannot have any viscous material. Much of the linkage requires high velocity reaction in order to release the impulse lever and roller at the proper point in the travel of the pendulum. Any cause that would slow or delay the pendulum impulse would inhibit pendulum motion.

That being said, the roller pivot must have lubrication else "fretting corrosion" or rust will erode the bearing surface. That is the only place I can visualize that really must be lubricated.

Of course, any part of a clock that exhibits an audible squeak needs attention. I think you could smear some light oil on just about any part of the clock not associated with the toggle action without harm.

 

[H.Weiland]

Thanks fellows for your help. I will do some experimentation and report back. I think you might be correct, usually if it creaks it needs oil due to the "stick - slip" phenominon. My hope was that someone else had found this problem before.

The coil measures 24.5 Ohms. My guess is that perhaps they were aiming for 25 or so. Can't see that 1/2 Ohm difference would be important.

Henry

 

[Ditto Designs]

Hello Henry - I just returned a Poole Executive to working condition, and it by golly it squeaks on one direction of every swing. I think the problem was exactly as Les pointed out - as I wiped the pallet arbor pivots with balance staff oil and voila - no squeak. The movement was cleaned ultrasonically in clean solution and the escapement parts were rinsed in alcohol - I suspect this made things "squeaky" clean... as an FYI - there was virtually no endshake in the minute wheel, apparently the bridge had been bent down a hair - once this was relieved the clock went from 14 swings per impulse to 31. This problem has been with this clock for sometime - made it quite cranky..
Mike

 

[Charles Vesser]

Hi Henry,
Just because the inside of the clock says "DO NOT OIL" does not mean DO NOT USE A LUBRICANT.
I think you will find just a small amount of light grease will cure you problem. I have found years ago many manafactures played "games" with the words of the English language due competition in the marketplace.
For example: Poole could advertise this clock as one that NEVER NEEDED OILING. But that does not mean it will never need lubicated. Or it also could mean "the clock will live its expected life before it needs lubicated.
A good example is the Telechron "B" rotor, it being a sealed in oil rotor. We all know 70 years later most all "B" rotors are in dire need of an OIL CHANGE.
Just my thoughts on a competive market during hard times in the marketplace.

 

[BAC]

I don't agree that lubrication is necessary, though I agree that it will do no harm in the short run. I have five different Poole/Barr clocks, all good timekeepers, and find that most ills relate to the need for cleaning and secondarily to adjustment of the contacts. Works that look clean are not necessarily so. The lack of lubrication makes the dirt less obvious.

I clean without disassembly in a non-ammoniated ultrasonic solution & rinse. The fiber insulator does not seem to suffer for this. If you still don't get the expected number of pendulum oscillations, it is likely due to the depthing of the contact points. As to the creaking, I'd bet that cleaning will cure it.

 

[Ditto Designs]

The discussion surrounding lubrication of the Poole movement created some curiosity as to what the impact is of oil vs. no oil. I had the opportunity to set up a rudimentary experiment on a Poole Executive that came in for cleaning. After normal disassembly, cleaning ( no lube ), the clock was set up and started. It settled down with what I've seen is pretty normal impulse interval of about 36 swings. The timekeeping was just OK at about 5-8 sec drift per day. I lubed the following, using balance staff oil (at a one day sequence between each):
1) Impulse roller pivots
2) Crutch fork
3) Pallet Assy to Crutch Arm cheeks.
4) Escape Wheel Pivots
5) Pallet Faces.
There was incremental increase in swing interval each time an additional part was lubed. The greatest effect appeared to be in the following order. #1,5,4,2,3.
The net of this was that the swing interval went from 36 to 52 over about the one week period, and the timekeeping improved to about 10 sec drift over this same period. So I put this out for what it's worth, and hope it provides a bit more insight to the discussion.