Odd lot thread

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Keith R..., Dec 6, 2018.

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  1. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    My dog's barking through my computer room window. Never show a Coon dog,
    your computer office window.

    Keith R...

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  2. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #402 Keith R..., Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    Also, I gave a break today for E Howard's #5477 and #15062 today. That's 1864 and 1866
    for the two Going Barrels in the first two photos.

    The verge fusee now pulling the load...............1820 in last photo (Ulph, in a pair case).

    edit*** I was going to reduce run time for my fusee's.............but I'm hooked. So at least
    once per month for 2 days on this verge and the same for my 1820 Dupree verge. Both
    recently serviced.

    Keith R...

    103_7455 (800x600).jpg 103_6267 (800x600).jpg AV (835x1024).jpg
     
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  3. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Ray and I just talked. He has another gastro-obstruction, so it's off to the main
    Hosp. the other side of Darwin to remove it. I'll keep you guys posted.

    ps................a hack watch below. Not a chronograph, great for the ponies!

    Keith R...

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  4. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Keith - I wondered why ponies rather than whippets ... do you have whippet racing on your side of the pond or is it just cooooning :)

    John
     
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  5. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    John, I go to Churchill Downs in the fall for the 3 year olds. I hit two Trifectas last year!

    They are 3 year old Philly's. The 1790 Grant verge, timed even with Sat time in 24 hrs.

    Keith R...

    100_4330 (1600x1200).jpg drw3 (800x600).jpg 100_4311 (1600x1200).jpg
     
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  6. Duncanbootmaker

    Duncanbootmaker Registered User

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    G'day Keith,
    Please pass on our regards and well wishes to Ray (from down in Victoria) :) Hope all goes well with the Op.
    Cheers
    Duncan
     
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  7. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Duncan and all, I'm happy to report Ray is back home, "looking for that next movement"!!

    He of course expects to be summoned yet again, for the same affliction. Let's hope he's
    better at finding old watch movements, then predicting his next visit to the Hospital.

    A dust cap on my Portland ME, 1850, Oliver Gerrish, 17J Liverpool Runner.

    Keith R...

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  8. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Confession..............Several months ago I was aware my 31 year old daughter was not in a good
    relationship. I was going to get her talking with Amy's old best friend, but that would give her grief.
    I thought of PatH on our board to give her a "mom" type to speak with. Needless to say, I got her
    when she failed, but she's doing fine now with "dad".

    I told her how I would like to save a few English movements with dust caps (I had shown her my Roskell
    rack lever movement). Out of the blue, she comes up with an idea to take a small whiskey barrel and
    bore the diameter of the outer dust cap, secure the back side to stay in the barrel with dial out. To wind it,
    split the barrel and hinge it, then shut the barrel. One could have one barrel, with several movements on
    display. I think I'll tinker with the idea when I talk to my friends, who are quite handy with wood working
    tools. Now she appreciates watches, but getting her on a watch message board.............I guess one can't
    have it all.

    Thoughts on Corbin's idea are welcome!


    Keith R...

    jj399 (800x690).jpg jj403 (800x600).jpg
     
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  9. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #409 Keith R..., Jul 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
    Now on the mini-whiskey barrel, it will fit in my China cabinet. Line of movements
    facing out the front glass doors and a line on the side facing out the side glass. This
    keeps the dust off the dials. The little barrel will be stained oak brown.

    PS...Fired up the 9J Sam Kellet.

    PS2...Ray would be mad, but I bought a new pipe and found some pipe tobacco
    that does not bite!!!

    Keith R...

    100_5305 (1600x1200).jpg
     
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  10. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Happy 4th of July to all collectors this fine day!

    1853 American private label, (my 1763 Perry is still in restoration).

    Pitkin, restored by Graham Morse.

    Keith R...

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  11. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Trivia................1852 to 1863.

    Keith R...

    JJ456 (608x800).jpg jj457 (800x787).jpg jj462 (800x723) (2).jpg jj459 (631x800).jpg 100_1442 (800x600) - Copy.jpg 100_1454 (800x600).jpg
     
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  12. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #412 Keith R..., Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    Shown Post #411, 9J Lever fusee, HM 1852 and an 11J 1863 Waltham coin hunter
    (Going barrel).

    My guess and observations, there were many more fusee's through the American Civil War,
    then available Going barrel watches such as E Howard and Waltham. The old repair ledgers
    seem to reflect this.

    Shown this post, 1834 17J Lever in an American gold hunter and a coin 1859 E Howard
    series I Going barrel 15J. The American Civil War Era, 1861 to 1865.

    Keith R...

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  13. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    I just found out through a relative, I could be kin to the Duchess Markle.

    Martin, no need for anything extra regarding this info. However, I should
    find me a nice chronometer with a "Coat of Arms", fit for this new found
    Royalty claim.;)

    This Savage 2 pin (1822) will do, until a much older chronometer, finds it's
    way home. :D

    Keith R...

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  14. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Just having fun...........but I am on the hunt for an older English chronometer.
    Perhaps 1820's.

    Keith R...

    100_3604 (800x600).jpg
     
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  15. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    Start saving, Keith ;)
     
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  16. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Well, sounds like planting tomorrow in A field.

    My daughter started a new job in the bourbon distillery business. So all seems on
    track.

    Here's a couple of favorites I enjoy running from time to time. 1867 Melrose and
    an 1820 Verge, front wind.

    Keith R...

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  17. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #417 Keith R..., Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
    One of my favorite periods to research and collect is 1800 to 1820. Here are a few from this
    period, that are serviced and timing.

    1802 verge from Australia, 1818 Rack lever from Cog's & Pieces, 1820 Verge from my friend
    Pat out the States.

    Verge 1802 is 48MM, 1818 Rack 58MM outer case, Verge 1820 54MM. Note, both verges
    have movement dates on the plates.

    Edit, one can spot a few others in the thread, "Rack levers 1812-1822".

    Keith R...

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  18. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #418 Keith R..., Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    1800 to 1820 periods.

    I have a fondness for good timing and running verges. The first pic is my first verge
    purchase, hallmarked for 1811. It's for the American market, but the name was selected
    more as a correct sounding name by the retailer. Thus, there is no real maker with the name
    "Rich Champion" of Liverpool, although there were a few made. The outer pair case
    is 54 MM. This would mark the last of the old style Tompion regulating disks.

    Case maker G. Thickbroom, HM small n for Birmingham 1811. This old verge keeps
    time at about plus one minute in 24 hours, (last run). It is my only Ruby end stone
    Verge, all others are diamond end stones.

    Keith R...

    KVERGE (800x600).jpg KV4 (800x600).jpg KV2 (800x600).jpg KV3 (800x600).jpg 103_7460 (800x600).jpg
     
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  19. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #419 Keith R..., Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    1800 to 1820 periods.

    Now you might as well say a calendar watch is fruitless and I wound up with two. This one from
    London, 1805 by B. Roberts. It came serviced, but was running fast 30 minutes per day, so
    I adjusted the timing to within 2 minutes/24 hrs on the Tompion, (4 increments). and it runs great in
    all positions.

    Someday, I'll find it a normal dial and it will be a time only verge. Outside case diameter 53MM.

    PS......I'll replace the dial and leave the calendar arm on and see how many questions I get.

    Not shown, 1803 Barr verge, 1806 Dwerrihouse & Carter verge, 1816 Lawrance rack London,
    1819 Johnson/Dublin verge, 1820 Ulph verge, 1820 Jackson rack lever.

    Keith R...

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  20. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Planting completed in both fields. So need to weed it, order some water from above (pray),
    and load the barn up in the Fall.

    Only time will tell. Have a great Sunday!!

    PS....I prayed for the dial, but hunting always for another on this 1834 Verge with
    a Bosley reg.. Vale & Rotherham case and probably same for the movement. Times
    within +2 minutes per 24hrs.

    Keith R...

    100_3235 (800x600).jpg
     
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  21. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #421 Keith R..., Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    I recall a few years ago I kept noticing a movement collector with ticking examples
    back to the 1740's. I vowed as long as I could find good examples with dust caps, I would
    collect what I could rescue.

    Omexa (Ray) had a secret stash of old cases, (I learned this after having collector dialogue)
    and old Ray is still with us, (although for this board, through myself and a couple of others).

    I was slightly frustrated on American watches and solved the movement only issues with
    glass back display cases. I bring this up, as so few movement collectors surface, with their
    finds. I'm still a firm believer in rescues.

    Here's wishing ole Ray was back. Rob C.put the 6xxx Howard key wind in a gold filled case
    when he serviced it, (my empty GF case).

    edit........pic#3, I had two holes drilled for winding/setting of the key wind movement.

    Keith R...

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  22. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Hear hear

    John
     
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  23. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #423 Keith R..., Jul 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
    My grand daughter will soon move up with my daughter and I. So while I have free reign
    of the house without an 8 year old, I will run my hunter cases with lids open, for their periodic
    run (30 hours plus).

    These all serviced. Pic's 1,2 & 3 English, Pic #4 & 5 Swiss, then American.

    Note, added McCabe Verge last 1805, but it's not serviced. Next to last 1872.
    One English cylinder, one verge, two English levers, two Swiss straight line levers,
    three American Going barrels.

    1790-1872

    Keith R...

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  24. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Interesting day...............you just gotta love the UK for unmolested watches!!
    Here's my first lever from 1821.

    Today was London though.

    Keith R...

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  25. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Keith, nice movement, what does it say at the top Chatterls??
     
  26. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Allan - its Chatteris - discussed here which explains Keith's cryptic comment ...

    John
     
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  27. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #427 Keith R..., Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
    I used to tell folks I had Spies in the Sky over the farm. I still have some who are non-believers.

    Look a the upper left hand corner just above the treeline at my Goodyear Blimp.

    Fired this one up on the way to the barn (19J Josh Johnson Co. 1842).

    Keith R...

    100_5330 (1600x1200).jpg 100_5339 (1600x1200).jpg
     
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  28. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Well, the old 1813 John Freeman made it in. When this was in my inbox, I closed my eyes
    and thought of the inner case it was housed in. I was pretty sure I had an outer case for it.
    So when I found out it was here I grabbed the outer case by Thomas Spicer I believe from
    1816. So pretty close between inner/outer cases and a darn tight fit.

    Now the good news is, the watch was just serviced. So I can leave the Ulph verge from
    1820 for a bit and sport this one from 1813, a transition Tompion/Bosley reg by the way.
    She's ticking away along side the London Tremont that's also here.

    John Matthews could find nothing on Jn Freeman as a watch maker, so i'm guessing a
    silversmith or retailer. Any info would be much appreciated on an 1813 John Freeman.

    Keith R...

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  29. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    John Matthew's latest Duplex is a great looking original duplex. I cut a corner and
    bought a duplex re-cased in an inner verge case from 1834. I sent it for service and
    it came home needing to be timed. I finally figured out it only has a 12 hour spring
    to run on.

    If I ever find it an outer verge case, I'll see about a new mainspring for it or see if
    Denis has one.

    Times good, but you have to wind it twice in a day. As a Duplex collector follow
    John's lead, as shall I in the future, (right down to it in it's original case). I get hung
    up on a 14J watch.

    Keith R...

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  30. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    While this thread is at the top, I thought I'd touch briefly on a collecting strategy. I have yet
    to decide on who or where my collection will go once I've cashed in "my old ticket". So I bet
    on a series of mini collections for both American and European watches, should I myself
    make the decision.

    - Civil war era (American & European).
    - Early railroad (American)
    - English Rack levers (1812 to 1822)
    - English Verges (1800 to 1834)
    - English levers (1821 to 1867)
    - American private labels (Colonial, Federal and post Federal verges and levers)
    - Miscellaneous (duplexes, English cylinders, pocket chronometers, chronographs, slow beats, 2 pins)

    Saturday evening thoughts.

    Keith R...

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  31. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Keith - Graham and others will correct me if I am mistaken ... but I think you need to investigate this further, as a matter of urgency.

    As this is a fusee driven movement, you need to check position of the chain, when fully wound and run down. If you have a short chain so that when fully wound the chain has not reached the stop at the top of the fusee, the wind will be halted by having a fully extended short chain, putting it in great danger of breaking. If the chain is of the correct length, and as you believe it is because the spring is weak, or there is unacceptable resistance in the train causing it to stop prematurely, there will still be a portion of the chain around the fusee.

    Sorry, if I am explaining what you already know, but with a short chain, breakage is a real risk and if the chain fails, it could cause additional damage to the train. I would not run the watch, until you are absolutely certain why it is only running for 12 hours.

    John
     
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  32. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Keith,

    John is absolutely correct, don't run it until this has been resolved.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  33. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #433 Keith R..., Aug 4, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
    I shut it down guys..............thanks for the precautions!! When it ran down at 8:32 AM EST,
    I put it back in the China Cabinet.

    But hey, never one to dwell, I fired up a verge I know was truly serviced, from 1803. It's one I
    adjusted the Tompion disk, but yet to perform a final timing test. So it's a Dublin verge by
    William Barr circa 1803. Graham called this one long ago and it has a late Thomas Carpenter
    pair case, complete with a watch paper.

    I believe my favorite watch is a Verge from the 1800's.

    #Note, duplex from post #429 I purchased as running, but max run at the time was
    2 minutes and it would stop (so off to the shop it went).

    Keith R...

    Barr8710 (500x375).jpg 100_5356 (1600x1200).jpg 100_5362 (1600x1200).jpg
     
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  34. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Wonder dog saves girl...............

    Keith R...

    IMG_20190731_203540691 (1200x1600).jpg
     
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  35. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #435 Keith R..., Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
    Well the Dublin verge finished a +10 minutes in 24hrs.

    Now below is one from 1811 that gets close in timing. This a Liverpool
    verge with a Ruby end stone.

    Keith R...

    103_7460 (800x600).jpg KV3 (800x600).jpg
     
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  36. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #436 Keith R..., Aug 8, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
    I made the decision some months back to scour the planet for "great finds".

    My other mission will be to help new collectors.

    Her's a find out of the UK...................... Alex Purvis London.........................
    It has the original dust cap, just no pic. Circa 1820 if I recall.

    Keith R...

    100_2893 (800x600).jpg 100_2906 (800x600).jpg 100_3036 (800x600).jpg
     
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  37. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    I don't post on what I like to carry,............................................ locally.

    1834 V, 1820 V, 1880 L, 1816 RL...............Verge, Lever, Rack Lever.

    Keith R...

    100_1556 (800x600) (800x600).jpg 100_3874 (1024x768).jpg 100_2718 (800x600).jpg 100_3434 (800x600) - Copy.jpg
     
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  38. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    I had set aside this one to re-time it.

    Keith R...

    brink (600x800).jpg brink5 (800x800).jpg
     
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  39. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    One of my favorite sites is the "Antique Watch Store". Good write ups and product!!

    I'll have to talk to Santa if the farm gives me a good return. Pic taken when Timing the
    1802 Fairey verge from Australia. So plus about 23 years was a good year.

    End of run also.;)

    Keith R...

    View attachment 544229

    fairey4 (1024x680).jpg 100_4154 (1024x768).jpg
     
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  40. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #440 Keith R..., Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    Can someone put up a pic of an English hallmarked 1840's Sterling case/watch
    out of Chester about 52MM?

    Two of my Johnson's (14xxx), one in a replacement case, the other just re-cased and
    the replacement case is 1877 (first pic), the second one a re-case and is 1890's.
    Front and back shots would be great. I would like some day to get the 147xx period
    correct, (2nd pic).

    Found an 1841 Chester (3rd pic). Feedback still welcome. Looking from internet
    the hallmarks are not shown.

    Thanks guys, if one can help..................Keith R...

    Edit for John M................Perfect John, link is great also!!

    100_2355 (800x600).jpg 100_3732 (800x600).jpg chester (259x194) (2).jpg
     
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  41. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    #441 John Matthews, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    Keith - if you are simply looking for the Chester hallmarks for that period they are here.

    Edit - if you click on the dates that are underlined - an example is displayed

    This is from an 1847/48 silver case ... remember no duty mark (sovereign's head) on watch cases.

    upload_2019-8-14_0-39-58.png

    John
     
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  42. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #442 Keith R..., Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
    Although I worked hard to find a verge pre-1800 with a seconds bit, you'd have to
    wonder why they needed one in 1790. Note, case is 1830's (a replacement case).

    John Grant .........................Fleet Street (dated by Grant SN).

    PS.............We need a good discussion on shop cases, as in post # 439 1st pic, Jn
    Fairey, London (JF).

    Keith R...

    100_4311 (1600x1200).jpg
     
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  43. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #443 Keith R..., Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
    I once asked Jon about Howard watches, designed to wind counter clockwise like the Fusee
    watch. My thought then was not about any patents. I thought the real answer was old Howard
    wanted to capitalize off "what" watch owners at the time were used to, (fusee's).

    This one a series III from 1864, in a second generation GF case.

    Keith R...

    103_0478 (800x600).jpg 5477 (500x375).jpg 103_7455 (800x600).jpg 100_4723 (1600x1200).jpg
     
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  44. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Keith,

    I expect for the same reason they'd have wanted one in 1730, 1750 or 1780, because they could!

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  45. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    I'm holding my breath on this verge. I bought this one and seller said will tick.
    Well it did for about 5 seconds. So I placed it in the service file and stuck it in
    the China cabinet.

    Today while giving it a nudge, it started ticking, that was about an hour ago. So
    let's see how long it will run. It is an American Verge by JB Jones circa 1832.
    Sometimes these old watches have a tough time when shipped. I'll have to check
    it out, as seller fiddled with the reg arm and claimed the watch was running slow.

    Keith R...

    JBJONES3 (1284x1600).jpg JBJONES5 (1323x1600).jpg JBJONES (1600x1512).jpg JBJONES4 (1600x1516).jpg
     
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  46. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Keith,

    London, 1832/3, case made by William Harris at 9 St. James Street, Clerkenwell. I don't think it was made in either of the Bostons . . .

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  47. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #447 Keith R..., Aug 16, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
    Thanks Graham, post #446.

    Hard to say what my favorite period was, but I fell for Rack levers hard. My first
    working serviced rack was by Josh Johnson 1818, then I had three restored. Two
    are 14 jewel racks and a favorite London Lawrance rack lever restored from 1816.

    I'd say the Wathen Rack from 1822 re-fitted by the original owner of Stroud in a
    consular case in 1858 is a favorite. Mr. Wathen had retired in the 1850's and I
    presume this 14J rack was a gift by his family and co-workers. The serial number
    is the date and I suspect it was originally in a pair case. Wathen rack restored by
    Carignan Watch Co. Belmont, New Hampshire.

    My earliest Rack is a Roskell rack movement circa 1812. I think any English
    collection should house a working rack lever.

    Keith R...

    JJ428 (800x756).jpg 100_2116 (800x600).jpg 100_2119 (800x600).jpg 100_2185 (800x600).jpg JJ426 (800x625).jpg jj435 (800x491).jpg 100_2125 (800x600).jpg 100_2176 (800x600).jpg
     
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  48. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Keith,

    Yes indeed, especially collectors on your side of the water, because the rack lever was a great stimulus to the transatlantic trade from Liverpool to the US, offering as it did a very different type of product from those of London.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  49. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    I had some great news from my two neighbors, that makes my "year"!!

    I just dropped off the grand daughter to swim in my best friends pool. She
    said she wanted to swim without my, "coon dog's" assistance. This is kid
    code for, "frogs in the pond, but not the pool". Not to mention it's cool clear
    water that's treated, with a gate around it.

    I wanted to enjoy my Illinois Bunn KWKS, along with my Sam Kellet from
    1836. It takes about a week before it's plus one minute in 24hrs. The Kellet
    lever is always spot on. Note, Kellet reg arm is currently at mid point. They
    took the pic when first timed and it was adjusted later.

    Keith R...

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  50. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    It's Verge day.

    So I have given run time to my "collectible" Bunn key wind. I would
    encourage my friends, Ray, John M., Graham, PL, Cliff, Allan and
    others to get a Bunn KWKS. They could probably take in a Howard
    also.

    Now here's where my heart belongs..............a good old 1820's Verge
    in a pair case, ticking on time, as I type. Now the trick to a good Verge
    is if it's 4 minutes slow in 24 hours and it's a Bosley reg, leave it as is
    and start it up 2 minutes ahead of time, (Tolerate it). If it's a Tompion,
    get it down to 2 minutes either way.

    Any questions??

    Keith R...

    100_5380 (1600x1200).jpg 100_5381 (1600x1200).jpg 100_5388 (1200x900).jpg
     
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