Now I've heard everything!

[shutterbug]

OK, I'm nervous about this one. I should have refused it, but it didn't get weird until I had it out of the case

Nice old Sessions Mission clock, club foot escapement, two weight, t/s count wheel floor clock (like a grandmother in size). Pendulum suspension is mounted to the back board, and the crutch wire slips through a slot in the pendulum hanger, which is wood.
The strike side click spring is broken off, but otherwise the clock runs. It's very dirty, and needs two bushings.

The owner insists that I don't clean or oil the movement! Claims it will devalue the clock - he saw it on the Antique Road Show. When I tried to explain things to him, he said I was arguing with him! Oh well. So I'm going to fix the click and put it back together dirty. Good grief!

I thought I could avoid the job by quoting a price. He says he doesn't care how much it costs!

I can't find much about this clock. I'd like to know it's age.

I should have ran, right?

 

[harold bain]

Just make sure you document his instructions, and your observations, in case he tries to make you give a warranty.

 

[R. Croswell]

.........and take lots of pictures to document just how it looked when it came in.

 

[MrX]

Ah a virginal clock!

 

[The Tick Doc]

..............give it back and refuse to do the work.... they do not know what they are talking about

 

[Scottie-TX]

Ah a virginal clock!

Could be but I rather think it a provnicial clock. (jes' 'bout everthin' in Canada is provincial)
Nah. I wouldn't touch that clock with a ten foot Pole ( or even a five foot Lithuaninan)

 

[al_taka]

That was just toooo funny

 

[Dave P]

Could be but I rather think it a provnicial clock. (jes' 'bout everthin' in Canada is provincial)
Nah. I wouldn't touch that clock with a ten foot Pole ( or even a five foot Lithuaninan)

I needed this, thank you Scottie for getting me laughing. DAVE

 

[Willie X]

Bug,

A nut job with plenty of money ...

Guess I would be conflicted too on that one!

Willie X

 

[bangster]

..............give it back and refuse to do the work.... they do not know what they are talking about

That should be the plan. The man is a horse's ass who will cause you incalculable grief in the future. He doesn't know what he wants, and he will blame you no matter what.

Drop it.

Unless you have a signed contract for tons and tons of money, vetted by your own attorney and the State Supreme Court.

Just my opinion, of course,

bangster

 

[itbme1987]

that antiques roadshow annoys me, i think they go a little overboard with some of the values, sorry if i offended anyone by this but i think it makes people a little too paranoid about everything they have, my aunt being one of them. To answer your question i would refuse the job and wish him to best of luck in getting it running, as Bangster has said, he will give you issues if you cant get it running under his request and it will be putting your reputation on the line and its not worth it

 

[Hayson]

For what it is worth, I agree

 

[shutterbug]

Let me reiterate - the thing IS running (except the strike, of course). My intentions are to document the movement with pictures, and state on the invoice that there is NO guarantee since the needed work was refused. I'll guarantee the click though

 

[TEACLOCKS]

club foot escapement
What kind of escapement is that.

 

[Dave B]

I would run, not walk, away from that one. I am hungry for work, and will take darned near anythign, but I will take nothing that I am not willing to guarantee entirely for six months.

 

[Hayson]

club foot escapement
What kind of escapement is that.

Actually club tooth escapement. Same as in most modern wrist watches. The pallets are impulsed by the bevelled face on top of the tooth. ( I'm pretty rusty on this. Haven't done a watch in ages. Someone kick me if I got it wrong).

 

[ticktock19852004]

Hello!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I've heard this before by a couple antique dealers. In my mind a clean movement kept in peak performance is worth more than a dirty movement. I betchya anything he doesn't want the patina removed from the wheels and plates. My solution to such a picky customer would be (on the intentions that I would actually accept work from such a person) to peg out the pivot holes, polish pivots where necessary, install needed bushings, put back together and offer no warranty with the "repairs" performed. This way the clock will run and the patina on the plates will remain. I can't say that I actually approve of doing things this way, however; some people leave you with very little options.

Thanks!

Neal

 

[Scottie-TX]

You got 'er HAYS: Them funny lookin' kinda square shaped teeth where the impluse angle is cut to every tooth. Instead of a pallet face providing impulse, the tooth shape does that.

 

[Strikwerda]

club foot escapement
What kind of escapement is that.

fire escape in a bar?

 

[Hayson]

fire escape in a bar?

Arghh! (Beats head on wall)

 

[Kevin W.]

In my opinion, i would get it in writing from the customer, exactly what he wants and stae he agrees to no warranty on work done.
I don,t see any advantage and worth of not cleaning the clock,s movement.
And i agree with Ryan on advice given on the Antiques Road show, some people there are too, patina oriented.

 

[Tom Kloss]

Shutter

Let us know how this turns out. I may be faced with the exact same problem next week.

T. J.

 

[Jeff]

What I would do, I would fix it. Then I would tell the customer that I would warranty only the repair, not the whole clock. Then I would say if the clock gives him trouble,then he should get it rebuilt and credit him for the work you did. I done this in the past and it seems to work for me. If you refuse the work ,he will get it repaired somewere else. My goal is to keep customers happy as best as I can.


Jeff

 

[wingardclocks]

I run into this problem often. Customer says it needs this, don't need this, or someone said this is all it needs done. I politely ask them why that person isn't doing the work for them if they or you know whats needs done and what doesn't.
I have a strick policy with customers. Have the repairs done that I feel are needed or take it somewhere else. I tell them I don't want my name out there for poor work. Fix it right or don't have me fix it.

 

[al_taka]

Good Policy Jack!

 

[new2clocks]

OK, I'm nervous about this one. I should have refused it, but it didn't get weird until I had it out of the case

Nice old Sessions Mission clock, club foot escapement, two weight, t/s count wheel floor clock (like a grandmother in size). Pendulum suspension is mounted to the back board, and the crutch wire slips through a slot in the pendulum hanger, which is wood.
The strike side click spring is broken off, but otherwise the clock runs. It's very dirty, and needs two bushings.

The owner insists that I don't clean or oil the movement! Claims it will devalue the clock - he saw it on the Antique Road Show. When I tried to explain things to him, he said I was arguing with him! Oh well. So I'm going to fix the click and put it back together dirty. Good grief!

I thought I could avoid the job by quoting a price. He says he doesn't care how much it costs!

I can't find much about this clock. I'd like to know it's age.

I should have ran, right?

Sb,

I have watched every Aniques Road Show for the last five years and many from before that, and they never advised to not clean and oil the movement.

Your customer is probably confused with the advice the AR folks always give with repsect to keeping the original finish on furniture since, apparently, most collectors will pay a premium for the original finish.

Advise him of the above and that you are not suggesting to do anything to the case. Then you may want to try this analogy - if he collected antique, vintage automobiles, would he expect the same motor oil from 50 years ago to be used currently.

If this still does not convince him, I agree with some of the other comments. You are either going to do the basic things that need to be done and you will do them well, or you will not do them at all.

Regards.

 

[ogee_guy]

you should give it back to him fast-be carefull it costs $5000 nowdays here topay for a lawyer for a law suit even if you win I thought mission clocks were from 1920s and 30s and thought they looked crappy looking

 

[clockdoc45]

I agree with ogee boy. The best thing you can do is get the clock back to your customer. He is nothing but trouble, My philosophy is the customer is always right. BUT that is only if I am wrong!!!!!! I'm suppose to be the professional for clock repair not my customer. You tell them what is to be done. The more they disagree, the faster I slide the clock back in their direction. It work 99% of the time.

 

[R&A]

I would copy and paste this thread and Email it to the customer.I can't understand why you would really need a second opinion on this issue.It is cut and dry.You touched the clock ,now you will become responsible for it running.And if the guy has so much money that he would say , I don't care what it cost.Then he won't care how much it cost to hirer a lawyer either.

Make him sign what you are not responsible for and then he has no legal recourse to come back at you.If he refuses to sign then except no money for this job.Because you are being set up.

H/C

 

[al_taka]

This thread so is getting long, so I'll make it longer.

SB,
Repair what he asks since you have it, and state on the invoice the clock will not run or stop running shortly after if a overhaul is performed. List what the overhaul will cost and give him 30 days for the estimate to be valid.

He may not care if the clock runs. Some eccentric customers cannot be figured out, don't try. Sometimes being a caring person backfires.

 

[jacks61fd]

The club tooth escapement was used on many Welch clock movements, Patented by B.B. Lewis in Aug. 1870. This movement would be a left over Welch product used by Sessions after they took over the company.

 

[Jeff]

This thread so is getting long, so I'll make it longer.

SB,
Repair what he asks since you have it, and state on the invoice the clock will not run or stop running shortly after if a overhaul is performed. List what the overhaul will cost and give him 30 days for the estimate to be valid.

He may not care if the clock runs. Some eccentric customers cannot be figured out, don't try. Sometimes being a caring person backfires.

Al, I agree with what you said. I'm now having second thoughts. I in the past had done favors for customers and it came back in a bad way. I've not delt much with paying customers as most of you have, I done this as a hobby for a number of years. So what I'm seeing on the forum is good advice,and that is what the forum is for.


Jeff

 

[Len Lataille]

Since it appears the majority said to run away from this one, I would like to add my agreement with those opinions.

Customers(?) dont remember anything that you said, only what they want.

Once you get in there you are likely to find other problems and since you were the last to handle his clock, better plan on his expecting the clock to run for a good long time.

I dont do half a** work. It will only come back to bite you in the half that you do have.

And be carefuly about those "I dont care what it costs". Specify an estimate range, even if it is large. I got badly burned one time when I got paid what the customer though the repair was worth depite the "I dont care" crap.

He knew that it was his word against mine since there was nothing in writing.

 

[Brian O]

"When I tried to explain things to him, he said I was arguing with him!". That's about all you need to know, right there. If it stops running in 6 months, he'll be saying 'I took it to Shutterbug's but he didn't fix it right', etc, etc. If it stops in 2 weeks, he'll say 'I took it to Shutterbug's and he wrecked it'. You can't win with a person like this because they know EVERYTHING. When something goes wrong it can't be their fault so they only have you to blame, hopefully not in court. I'd politely refuse the job, charge him nothing, send him somewhere else and hope that he never comes back. That way you'll have no liability in the matter and your reputation remains intact.

 

[Randy Johnson]

This morning, my neighbor informed me that all you have to do to keep a clock running forever is to soak a chicken feather in kerosene and slop it on the 'works' once or twice a year. I hope he don't decide to go into business 'cause that would mean no more clock repairs.But I don't think we ought to shut down the message board just yet. - Randy

 

[harold bain]

Randy, I guess we all better start growing chickens

 

[Randy Johnson]

Randy, I guess we all better start growing chickens

I wonder if a duck feather would work just as well?

 

[Len Lataille]

Chicken feather? That's takes too much time. Use a floor mop and do it in all one slosh.

The neighbor must be some old timer because the younger crowd couldnt come up with this stuff.

Hey, Randy, ask him what it takes to make a car run forever. Chicken soup? Why waste the rest of the chicken?

 

[Randy Johnson]

Chicken feather? That's takes too much time. Use a floor mop and do it in all one slosh.
The neighbor must be some old timer because the younger crowd couldnt come up with this stuff.

Definitely Len. He's in his early 70s and the feather trick was from some great uncle or family member he grew up 'learning things' from. I was so busy trying to visualize that procedure that the details kinda flew by. He looked so serious it was hard to keep a straight face.

 

[R&A]

Now there's a concept.Maybe the clock is from Louisiana,and it's some kind of voodoo.And the chicken is a sacrifice to the time he spends being stupid, and the clock is the center of that being.The clock is possessed,leave it well enough alone.

 

[JB]

A few months ago I had an older gentleman mention the same thing. Except the feather was dipped in oil. He must be in his late seventies and he learned it from watching his dad in the old country. Maybe at one point they were using the other end to oil the pivots. And he's now flipped it around.
Sad part is, people told me he fixed clocks. I thought I would pay a visit (somewhat lonely fellow) maybe learn a thing or two. Oh boy! However, even with the misconception of him fixing clocks, it was still a good visit.

Sorry for straying off topic

Regards,
Joe

 

[Bruce Weeks]

I agree with most of the sentiment posted here. This customer will be trouble no matter what you do. Early in my clock repair career I took almost anything that came my way just for the experience in repairing various clocks. I got that and a whole lot more. One "gentleman" resisted having me place his 1870's English GF properly saying he hadn't decided just where it was to go. A couple weeks later he called saying it had stopped and I had better rush right over and fix it. When I arrived, the hood was in pieces and the case wracked badly. He had set it at the corner of his fireplace mantle half way extended beyond. His teenage son had rounded the corner from the kitchen and ran smack into the back of the clock knocking it over. He claimed this was my fault that it did not run and my responsibility to fix it. I politely refused. Since he was more prominent in the community then I was (A big local builder) word got around and my rep was tarnished.

Refuse any work that the customer won't do to your standards AND price. My opinion.

Bruce Weeks Clock Repair
www.geocities.com/weeksclockrepair

 

[wingardclocks]

Bruce, You should have had him build you a house, burn it down, then tell him it was his fault!!!

 

[Len Lataille]

Bruce

Aren't customers fun? Sorry this jerk hurt your reputation.

I had a similar experience where a customer wanted to place a GM clcok on a thick shag carpet. With the weights at the top, just opening the door to set the time, the clock would fall forward.

I removed the weights and left, telling him that when WHEN he had selected a solid location or was willing to bolt the case to the wall, I would return and set up the clock.

Never heard from him again and I was happy. I was small potatoes at the time, so he couldnt have hurt my reputation much.

 

[shutterbug]

Here's an update. The gentleman called this morning and said I was right and the movement should be cleaned. I'm going to go ahead with this one, and hope it don't come back to bite me in the butt!

 

[Steven Thornberry]

His wife probably set him straight. ("No, George, that'sot what they said!") Certainly, my wife pays closer attention to Antiques Roadshow than I do. Bet the AR appraiser was arguing against refinishing or some such.

 

[Bruce Weeks]

Len, Fortunately it was a long time (1979) and three moves ago. I recovered from it.

Shutterbug, Some customers are a never ending source of time wasting. Often hard to read until the second or third comeback. That's one reason why I will not do a job less than I quote (read half-@$$). I also try to keep my territory small for house calls too. You can charge extra for mileage the first time but comebacks 25-30 miles away get expensive both time-wise and wear and tear on your car.

Thanks for the sympathy . . .

 

[Kevin W.]

I guess the old saying, you can,t please everyone is so true.

 

[Thyme]

I guess the old saying, you can,t please everyone is so true.

I've been doing repair work for around 30 years (not clock repair) and most of it involves travel to the customer's location. Recalls are to be avoided, because they are costly (travel expenses) and time consuming.

Never let a customer tell you how to do your job. You are the expert, and you bear the responsibility for the work done. If they are not willing to accept expertise, let them go elsewhere and be a headache to someone who is less honest or less of an expert.

Interestingly, dealing with customers seems to be statistically predictable. 90% of customers will be reasonable people. About 8% will be 'difficult' or hard to please, for one reason or another. And then there is that 2% of customers that are 'IMPOSSIBLE'. No matter how well you do the job they will never be satisfied. Every transaction has to be a hassle or a haggle. These people are to be avoided, because the amount of grief they will give you will outweigh the potential profit of the job.

 

[Len Lataille]

Actually, the IMPOSSIBLE are easy to deal with. Simply give them their money back and tell them "I'm sorry that we can't do business".

Cuts quickly your loss of time, which is worth money as well and there are other PAYING customers that need your attention.