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Nothing more annoying!

NEW65

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Fitting a gathering pallet and noticing displacement of the newly fitted rear bushing is very annoying especially when steps are taken to try and avoid this!
I am sure we all have our own methods of dealing with this. I thought my method was pretty much bullet proof, using a planed flat piece of wood positioned over the bushing , but very carefully ensuring that the back plate is laying dead flat against the block of wood, and then gently drifting the GA onto the arbor. This method works 90% of the time for me but not always! It's very difficult to hold the movement flat on the block and fit the GA; we only have one pair of hands and theres only me!
I've tried other methods of fitting the GP but found those less reliable.
Conclusion- it will always be a big problem, there's no guaranteed method of doing this.
:-/
 

John P

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I use a feeler gauge to slip in between the arbor and rear plate. A notch has been cut in one end to allow the piece to slip in and block the arbor from bumping the bushing.
P1010092.JPG


Hope this helps

johnp
 
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NEW65

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Thanks, John, for this. I will get a set of feeler gauges and file a groove. I am unsure if they will be straightforward to file or whether different thickness saw blades would help, but i'll try it out. i will just ensure that I have allowed enough end play although the gauges allow for that. Thanks for your time and help adding this :)
 

Simon Holt

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I wondered about modifying one of those one-handed clamps, replacing the plastic jaws with hard wood. One jaw would need a hole in it to clear the pin and arbour of the gathering pallet. That way you could gently squeeze the GP on, rather than hammering it on.

Simon
 
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POWERSTROKE

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If I need to bush the front and rear gp hole, I bush the front first, tap the gp on and then bush the rear.
 
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wow

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Power, I’m at a lost to understand what you are doing. I have never heard of putting on a gathering pallet using a piece of wood. I just put it on with needle nosed pliers and when in the right position, I punch it with a slotted end punch. Could you post photos of your method?

Well, now I see two more threads with the same title. Could a moderator combine them somehow? Confusing!
 
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POWERSTROKE

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You simply bush the rear plate after the gathering pallet is back on. The rear plate of the gp wheel should be bushed last.
 
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wow

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You simply bush the rear plate after the gathering pallet is back on. The rear plate of the gp wheel should be bushed last.
Why do you wait? I just bush all holes that are necessary on both plates and reassemble and then put the gathering pallet on it’s arbor on the front. Excuse my ignorance, but I don’t understand.
Here’s a thread where Willie describes a tool he made.
 
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bwclock

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Fitting a gathering pallet and noticing displacement of the newly fitted rear bushing is very annoying especially when steps are taken to try and avoid this!
I am sure we all have our own methods of dealing with this. I thought my method was pretty much bullet proof, using a planed flat piece of wood positioned over the bushing , but very carefully ensuring that the back plate is laying dead flat against the block of wood, and then gently drifting the GA onto the arbor. This method works 90% of the time for me but not always! It's very difficult to hold the movement flat on the block and fit the GA; we only have one pair of hands and theres only me!
I've tried other methods of fitting the GP but found those less reliable.
Conclusion- it will always be a big problem, there's no guaranteed method of doing this.
:-/
I like John P's idea with the feeler gauges.
What I have been using for years is a vise with a piece of wood in the jaws which I can adjust to height. The vise's base rests against something solid and I then tap the gathering pallet on. This set-up is dedicated to this purpose, so all I have to do is reach for it and adjust the wood piece so that it is on the rear bushing. I suppose a crow's foot on the back side of the front plate might also work, assuming no clearance issues.
BB

GP vise.jpg crow's foot.jpg
 
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wow

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Thanks for that, BB. Now I understand what’s going on. I just never had a problem with this. I hardly ever bush the back plate on the GP arbor. Usually the front one is the only one that is sloppy. Besides, the GP does not need to be that tight on the arbor. A couple of light taps with a punch like Willie made is all it takes.
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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If you are having this problem, just chamfer the inside of the new bushing hole about .2mm, press in the new bushing (leaving it a tiny bit proud) and peen the edge of the bushing into the chamfer. Broach for pivot fit, as you normally would, then check for end shake and dress the bushing as necessary. It will never move outward after this.

I've said this many times already but it only takes a very light tap or two, with a 2 ounce jeweler's hammer to seat a GP. And on modern clocks there is often an upset on the shaft that needs to line up with the scar inside the GP hole where it was originally installed.

Willie X
 
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NEW65

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Yes Willie. Those splines would eliminate taking any risks. I think some of the passed German movements that I've worked on (a few urgos I think), have had the splines.
 

NEW65

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You simply bush the rear plate after the gathering pallet is back on. The rear plate of the gp wheel should be bushed last.
Cheers Power for your message... you mentioned bushing the rear hole after fitting the gathering pallet on the arbor. I see what you mean but how do you adjust the position of the GP to its 'ideal position' on the arbor if you've already fitted it securely in place? Sorry if ive misread or misunderstood you.
Cheers
 

NEW65

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Thanks BB for your message which I have noted. On another note i was being a little nosey I was just checking out the huge range of tools you have in the background of your picture. It makes me realise how few tools I have! I think I need to invest in more tools. I see so many cheap tools for sale and i think that is one of the reasons why I have so few. I see no point in buying cheap (25 screwdrivers for £2.50p for example :chuckling: ) what I have are top quality though, some I've been using for 30 yrs now.
Thanks
 

NEW65

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Great idea Willie about securing the bushing from the inside, I never thought about that. That would be a very secure method and as you say would hold when fixing the GP on the arbor.
wow, it's funny what you said as I have find I have to rebush the rear hole of GP arbor much more than the front. I'm talking more about the Hermle movements here though which I'm working on pretty much every day.
:)
 

NEW65

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Hi Bruce , I use loctite too. I was just wondering if the GA could be simply pushed onto the arbor with a spot of loctite? I do not see a problem if the GP ever needs to be removed at some future date if two large flat ended screwdrivers are used to pry it off?!
Cheers mate
 

NEW65

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Simon, I like your idea alot. It would work well.
When I displaced the bushing (it was about halfway out), I took a set of plumbers grips and with small metal plate placed on top of the bushing I managed to position the grips and squeeze the bushing back in place. If the Jaws of the grips had have reached further into the movement I could have made the bushing flush with the outer side of the back plate!
But yes with the right tool your idea would be perfect! Great idea!
 

Simon Holt

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Simon, I like your idea alot. It would work well.
When I displaced the bushing (it was about halfway out), I took a set of plumbers grips and with small metal plate placed on top of the bushing I managed to position the grips and squeeze the bushing back in place. If the Jaws of the grips had have reached further into the movement I could have made the bushing flush with the outer side of the back plate!
But yes with the right tool your idea would be perfect! Great idea!
This is the kind of thing:

PXL_20221209_114125822.jpg
I cobbled this together in order to squeeze the count wheel on to a German wall clock, because I had bushed the rear pivot hole. The count wheel was very close to the edge of the movement, so the jaw depth didn't need to be particularly large:
2017-11-18 15.41.02.jpg
(Pre-cleaning)

The wood is oak - nice and hard. When I get round to it, I'll do a proper job, using grips with a greater depth of jaw, and making the wood pieces smaller to allow for clearance.

Simon
 
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Mike Mall

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This is the kind of thing:

View attachment 739876
I cobbled this together in order to squeeze the count wheel on to a German wall clock, because I had bushed the rear pivot hole. The count wheel was very close to the edge of the movement, so the jaw depth didn't need to be particularly large:
View attachment 739877
(Pre-cleaning)

The wood is oak - nice and hard. When I get round to it, I'll do a proper job, using grips with a greater depth of jaw, and making the wood pieces smaller to allow for clearance.

Simon
I have this same movement in my "to do" pile, so this tip will be handy.
Not wanting to hijack thread - so one question only.
Do you recall if there was a maker's mark on that movement?
 
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Simon Holt

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I have this same movement in my "to do" pile, so this tip will be handy.
Not wanting to hijack thread - so one question only.
Do you recall if there was a maker's mark on that movement?
No makers mark on that one, Mike. It bore some similarities to some Junghans movements I have worked on.

Simon
 
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Old Rivers

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Oct 4, 2016
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Fitting a gathering pallet and noticing displacement of the newly fitted rear bushing is very annoying especially when steps are taken to try and avoid this!
I am sure we all have our own methods of dealing with this. I thought my method was pretty much bullet proof, using a planed flat piece of wood positioned over the bushing , but very carefully ensuring that the back plate is laying dead flat against the block of wood, and then gently drifting the GA onto the arbor. This method works 90% of the time for me but not always! It's very difficult to hold the movement flat on the block and fit the GA; we only have one pair of hands and theres only me!
I've tried other methods of fitting the GP but found those less reliable.
Conclusion- it will always be a big problem, there's no guaranteed method of doing this.
:-/
I had precisely the same annoyance as you. After much digging in various forums, I ran across a brilliant solution that a few of our colleagues had devised. Instead of hammering, this tool is a press which is fitted over the movement, contacting opposite ends of the Gathering Pallet arbor. Pressing the gathering pallet onto its arbor becomes an easily controllable and precise operation.
So, I set about making one for myself.

Depending on the GP configuration, it is a simple matter to make various pusher and backstop tip configurations. I used 1/2" thick aluminum plate for the frame, and 1/4"-20 all thread for the "ram". The removable inserts are made from brass round. I have used this tool on large and small movements. I hold the movement upright in a holder which allows full access to the movement front and back. It works extremely well.

Bill

IMG_8640.jpg IMG_8642.jpg IMG_8643.jpg
 

NEW65

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Excellent Bill. I am going to use the same idea as you and hopefully will be able to use the device all size movements. I am surprised Timesavers and other suppliers of clock material/tools haven't got anything available (similar to what you have made), to buy?!
Thanks for adding pictures , much appreciated :)
 

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