North Attleboro banjo regulator?

[Larry]

Guys,
You are the experts! Based on your research revealed here in the forum I assume this clock is, as the title suggests, a North Attleboro clock.
But it has some features that I think that could nail it down to a specific time and place.
Please review the pics and share your impressions.
Thanks,
Larry

 

[wow]

Nice clock!

 

[Andy Dervan]

The case style is consistent with similar timepieces produced by George Hatch 1850s-1870. It is a banjo clock variant not a regulator - a true regulator would imply greater precision. Consult Paul J. Foley's book on Simon Willard Timepieces; he devotes a chapter to North Attleboro produced banjo clocks.

Both glasses are replacements: original glasses would have been simple geometric Black and Gold
The minute hand has been replaced.
The sidearms are likely replacements.

The label was added later by Philadelphia retailer/repairer - King.

Andy Dervan

 

[Larry]

The case style is consistent with similar timepieces produced by George Hatch 1850s-1870. It is a banjo clock variant not a regulator - a true regulator would imply greater precision. Consult Paul J. Foley's book on Simon Willard Timepieces; he devotes a chapter to North Attleboro produced banjo clocks.

Both glasses are replacements: original glasses would have been simple geometric Black and Gold
The minute hand has been replaced.
The sidearms are likely replacements.

The label was added later by Philadelphia retailer/repairer - King.

Andy Dervan

 

[Larry]

Andy,
Thanks for confirming my thoughts. The weight control metal straps vs the wood and metal cover seem unique to me.
Perhaps they are a later add on like the glass work. I like the newer reverse painted glass better than the standard Howard glass anyway.
I plan to preserve the clock’s history vice restore it.
Plus my wife loves the clock and that’s always a good thing! Lol
Larry

 

[Dick C]

Andy,
Thanks for confirming my thoughts. The weight control metal straps vs the wood and metal cover seem unique to me.
Perhaps they are a later add on like the glass work. I like the newer reverse painted glass better than the standard Howard glass anyway.
I plan to preserve the clock’s history vice restore it.
Plus my wife loves the clock and that’s always a good thing! Lol
Larry

What do you mean by the "weight control metal straps"?

 

[Ralph]

The clock has maintaining power, which would imply a deadbeat escapement . I would say it is as much a regulator as a Seth Thomas #2 or Howard 70 Is.

IMHO, Ralph

 

[Dick C]

Look at this one. Focus on May 2011: Price Search

 

[Ralph]

Look at this one. Focus on May 2011: Price Search

The one you reference appears to be missing it's maintaining power pawl.

2011 harkens back to the day$ of clock appreciation.

Ralph

 

[Larry]

What do you mean by the "weight control metal straps"?

Look at the throat and at the bottom of the weight travel. It uses soft metal about the with of a mainspring to keep the weight from damaging the glass.

 

[Larry]

Look at this one. Focus on May 2011: Price Search

Dick,
It looks like my clock for sure!
thanks,
larry

 

[Larry]

Andy,
My grandson-in-law picked this poor old clock up for free along with a couple of other clocks. He put it back together and made the missing minute hand.
i traded one of my wall regulators for it.
I wonder where the term “Baltimore Banjo” came from.
Thanks,
larry

 

[Andy Dervan]

This case is less common than typical North Attleboro banjos. I am not sure when/where the terminology arose a lot has occurred since these clocks were produced and new terminology sometimes creeps in.

Check out page 175 in Paul Foley's book he depicts a Hatch regulator with trapezoid movement on a seat board and also an advertisement from 1867.

Steve Petrocelli wrote a great NAWCC Bulletin on North Attleboro Clocks that you would have to be a member to access it.

Andy Dervan

 

[Larry]

This case is less common than typical North Attleboro banjos. I am not sure when/where the terminology arose a lot has occurred since these clocks were produced and new terminology sometimes creeps in.

Check out page 175 in Paul Foley's book he depicts a Hatch regulator with trapezoid movement on a seat board and also an advertisement from 1867.

Steve Petrocelli wrote a great NAWCC Bulletin on North Attleboro Clocks that you would have to be a member to access it.

Andy Dervan

Andy,
I’m a member so no problem. Plus I’ll probably see Steve at the upcoming regional in York! I’ll ask him to email a copy! Lol
Larry

 

[bruce linde]

like it... my kind of clock/project.

if it were mine, i'd immediately replace the weight cable (which is way too thick, anyway) with braided nylon lift cord or kevlar fishing line, find some age-appropriate matching moon hands, and send off the throat and bottom glasses to one of the reverse painting folks and have them make a new bottom tablet using old glass.... wouldn't cost that much.

a gojo clean of the case and some of this stuff would finish it off (for me):

p.s.: the reason i love the natchez is because it will help when cases are dried out like on your case.... kind of re-moisturizes the wood....

p.p.s.: and i agree with ralph about the maintaining power... can you confirm deadbeat anchor?

 

[Andy Dervan]

Hi Larry,

You can access the back issues of the Bulletin and download a pdf of the article.

Hopefully, I will run into you at Mideastern Regional I am coming with another Michigan member.

Andy Dervan

 

[Larry]

like it... my kind of clock/project.

if it were mine, i'd immediately replace the weight cable (which is way too thick, anyway) with braided nylon lift cord or kevlar fishing line, find some age-appropriate matching moon hands, and send off the throat and bottom glasses to one of the reverse painting folks and have them make a new bottom tablet using old glass.... wouldn't cost that much.

a gojo clean of the case and some of this stuff would finish it off (for me):

p.s.: the reason i love the natchez is because it will help when cases are dried out like on your case.... kind of re-moisturizes the wood....

p.p.s.: and i agree with ralph about the maintaining power... can you confirm deadbeat anchor?

You read my mind.
Lee Davis did the glasses for me!!!

 

[Larry]

View attachment 730601 You read my mind.
Lee Davis did the glasses for me!!!

Thinking about having someone do the dial, too! Recommendations? I’ve used the dial house before not sure if their still in business.

 

[Larry]

Hi Larry,

You can access the back issues of the Bulletin and download a pdf of the article.

Hopefully, I will run into you at Mideastern Regional I am coming with another Michigan member.

Andy Dervan

Andy,
I’ll look forward to meeting you. I have a table but I don’t know the number yet!
Larry

 

[bruce linde]

Thinking about having someone do the dial, too! Recommendations? I’ve used the dial house before not sure if their still in business.

the dial does have some issues, but not enough (at least not yet) to justify a re-do.

the banjo clocks in my collection that have had dial re-dos look good... but new. they don't have the glow of age the untouched ones do.

i still think your bigger issue is the hands, but everything else looks pretty good.... even the current dial.

your call, though...

 

[Jim DuBois]

I am not a fan of dials repainted to look like new. Here are a couple of new dials that have been recreated in a fashion to look something other than new.

 

[bruce linde]

Jim DuBois - how does one do that? or, who does dials like that?

 

[Jim DuBois]

Jim DuBois - how does one do that? or, who does dials like that?

Well, the small dial I did myself and Lee Davis did the box clock dial based on a blank I made for it.

 

[bruce linde]

hmm.... i might have to re-do a couple of re-dones that don't quite look their age...

 

[Jim DuBois]

In my thinking an unacceptable but well-done repaint versus a much older "looking" dial. Yes, the old ratty dial is a recreation by our resident neer do well, and it looks fine to me in its case. Far better than the repaint. And yes, I have the bezel. Two different clocks shown here.

 

[Andy Dervan]

I would not repaint it as Jim DuBois recommended; a repainted dial destroys age characteristics. Your clocks dates late 1850s and is over 160 years old so dials can have some issues.

Astrid Donnellan is a long time dial restorer; she is listed in the mart. I suggest contacting her regarding restoration and retouching, but you have to be careful how much touch is done.

Andy

 

[Larry]

the dial does have some issues, but not enough (at least not yet) to justify a re-do.

the banjo clocks in my collection that have had dial re-dos look good... but new. they don't have the glow of age the untouched ones do.

i still think your bigger issue is the hands, but everything else looks pretty good.... even the current dial.

your call, though...

Bruce,
I agree with you regarding re-done dials and the gracefully aged dials. That thought might be why I’m dragging my feet on the dial re-do! Lol
Thanks,
For the advice
Larry