North Attleboro banjo regulator?

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
Guys,
You are the experts! Based on your research revealed here in the forum I assume this clock is, as the title suggests, a North Attleboro clock.
But it has some features that I think that could nail it down to a specific time and place.
Please review the pics and share your impressions.
Thanks,
Larry

A4A87544-4607-461E-9E23-520C9AE78A45.jpeg 48871D48-1540-4704-A8D6-05057ECBAC49.jpeg B4EF9F22-5B47-4C00-8375-20E869F0AC58.jpeg 429BF833-6EC9-4AA2-9DEF-1B95F73EA142.jpeg 9ABC5CC1-114A-4DF5-94E5-B2277ED9D6AD.jpeg 7479183B-3FEB-4B5F-BA79-73C109D3FD82.jpeg BED9DA71-6728-47DB-B0D5-8DE65F5F3279.jpeg 2B987029-8BF5-48B4-B0DC-A163A87027FC.jpeg 3599707C-3A0D-4474-90E3-0D94CD850560.jpeg 50C9E51A-681C-4EA9-AC5C-F75A54C06351.jpeg F3E0256A-A597-4E29-8C76-618C608AE1E3.jpeg C380B7A9-54FB-4418-A69C-52C81064931A.jpeg 968F0F53-E0E2-422E-9BF0-39B1BF04918A.jpeg 28C082C6-F6B3-4826-B220-5A7E8315334F.jpeg 660A3D38-D664-4EDA-A8B2-CC6F2519160C.jpeg C7714F4F-4384-4229-946E-2E74128D86A5.jpeg 713A4E3E-56B8-431A-8F59-61882E02803C.jpeg
 

Andy Dervan

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Member
Oct 23, 2002
2,991
176
63
Country
Region
The case style is consistent with similar timepieces produced by George Hatch 1850s-1870. It is a banjo clock variant not a regulator - a true regulator would imply greater precision. Consult Paul J. Foley's book on Simon Willard Timepieces; he devotes a chapter to North Attleboro produced banjo clocks.

Both glasses are replacements: original glasses would have been simple geometric Black and Gold
The minute hand has been replaced.
The sidearms are likely replacements.

The label was added later by Philadelphia retailer/repairer - King.

Andy Dervan
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
The case style is consistent with similar timepieces produced by George Hatch 1850s-1870. It is a banjo clock variant not a regulator - a true regulator would imply greater precision. Consult Paul J. Foley's book on Simon Willard Timepieces; he devotes a chapter to North Attleboro produced banjo clocks.

Both glasses are replacements: original glasses would have been simple geometric Black and Gold
The minute hand has been replaced.
The sidearms are likely replacements.

The label was added later by Philadelphia retailer/repairer - King.

Andy Dervan
 

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
Andy,
Thanks for confirming my thoughts. The weight control metal straps vs the wood and metal cover seem unique to me.
Perhaps they are a later add on like the glass work. I like the newer reverse painted glass better than the standard Howard glass anyway.
I plan to preserve the clock’s history vice restore it.
Plus my wife loves the clock and that’s always a good thing! Lol
Larry
 

Dick C

NAWCC Member
Oct 14, 2009
2,165
165
63
Country
Andy,
Thanks for confirming my thoughts. The weight control metal straps vs the wood and metal cover seem unique to me.
Perhaps they are a later add on like the glass work. I like the newer reverse painted glass better than the standard Howard glass anyway.
I plan to preserve the clock’s history vice restore it.
Plus my wife loves the clock and that’s always a good thing! Lol
Larry
What do you mean by the "weight control metal straps"?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry

Ralph

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 22, 2002
5,534
481
83
Country
The clock has maintaining power, which would imply a deadbeat escapement . I would say it is as much a regulator as a Seth Thomas #2 or Howard 70 Is.

IMHO, Ralph
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
What do you mean by the "weight control metal straps"?
Look at the throat and at the bottom of the weight travel. It uses soft metal about the with of a mainspring to keep the weight from damaging the glass.
 

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
Andy,
My grandson-in-law picked this poor old clock up for free along with a couple of other clocks. He put it back together and made the missing minute hand.
i traded one of my wall regulators for it.
I wonder where the term “Baltimore Banjo” came from.
Thanks,
larry
 

Andy Dervan

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Member
Oct 23, 2002
2,991
176
63
Country
Region
This case is less common than typical North Attleboro banjos. I am not sure when/where the terminology arose a lot has occurred since these clocks were produced and new terminology sometimes creeps in.

Check out page 175 in Paul Foley's book he depicts a Hatch regulator with trapezoid movement on a seat board and also an advertisement from 1867.

Steve Petrocelli wrote a great NAWCC Bulletin on North Attleboro Clocks that you would have to be a member to access it.

Andy Dervan
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
This case is less common than typical North Attleboro banjos. I am not sure when/where the terminology arose a lot has occurred since these clocks were produced and new terminology sometimes creeps in.

Check out page 175 in Paul Foley's book he depicts a Hatch regulator with trapezoid movement on a seat board and also an advertisement from 1867.

Steve Petrocelli wrote a great NAWCC Bulletin on North Attleboro Clocks that you would have to be a member to access it.

Andy Dervan
Andy,
I’m a member so no problem. Plus I’ll probably see Steve at the upcoming regional in York! I’ll ask him to email a copy! Lol
Larry
 

bruce linde

NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
10,505
2,232
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
like it... my kind of clock/project. :)

if it were mine, i'd immediately replace the weight cable (which is way too thick, anyway) with braided nylon lift cord or kevlar fishing line, find some age-appropriate matching moon hands, and send off the throat and bottom glasses to one of the reverse painting folks and have them make a new bottom tablet using old glass.... wouldn't cost that much.

a gojo clean of the case and some of this stuff would finish it off (for me):

p.s.: the reason i love the natchez is because it will help when cases are dried out like on your case.... kind of re-moisturizes the wood....

p.p.s.: and i agree with ralph about the maintaining power... can you confirm deadbeat anchor?
 

Andy Dervan

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Member
Oct 23, 2002
2,991
176
63
Country
Region
Hi Larry,

You can access the back issues of the Bulletin and download a pdf of the article.

Hopefully, I will run into you at Mideastern Regional I am coming with another Michigan member.

Andy Dervan
 

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
like it... my kind of clock/project. :)

if it were mine, i'd immediately replace the weight cable (which is way too thick, anyway) with braided nylon lift cord or kevlar fishing line, find some age-appropriate matching moon hands, and send off the throat and bottom glasses to one of the reverse painting folks and have them make a new bottom tablet using old glass.... wouldn't cost that much.

a gojo clean of the case and some of this stuff would finish it off (for me):

p.s.: the reason i love the natchez is because it will help when cases are dried out like on your case.... kind of re-moisturizes the wood....

p.p.s.: and i agree with ralph about the maintaining power... can you confirm deadbeat anchor?
87E9A25F-4D61-449A-8E4F-3862740ADF3D.jpeg You read my mind.
Lee Davis did the glasses for me!!!
 

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
Hi Larry,

You can access the back issues of the Bulletin and download a pdf of the article.

Hopefully, I will run into you at Mideastern Regional I am coming with another Michigan member.

Andy Dervan
Andy,
I’ll look forward to meeting you. I have a table but I don’t know the number yet!
Larry
 

bruce linde

NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
10,505
2,232
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
Thinking about having someone do the dial, too! Recommendations? I’ve used the dial house before not sure if their still in business.

the dial does have some issues, but not enough (at least not yet) to justify a re-do.

the banjo clocks in my collection that have had dial re-dos look good... but new. they don't have the glow of age the untouched ones do.

i still think your bigger issue is the hands, but everything else looks pretty good.... even the current dial.

your call, though...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry and Willie X

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,971
1,552
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
In my thinking an unacceptable but well-done repaint versus a much older "looking" dial. Yes, the old ratty dial is a recreation by our resident neer do well, and it looks fine to me in its case. Far better than the repaint. And yes, I have the bezel. Two different clocks shown here.

2018-02-13 16.25.17 (3).jpg 20221009_062715 (2).jpg 20210122_163435.jpg IMG_4588.JPG
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry

Andy Dervan

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Member
Oct 23, 2002
2,991
176
63
Country
Region
I would not repaint it as Jim DuBois recommended; a repainted dial destroys age characteristics. Your clocks dates late 1850s and is over 160 years old so dials can have some issues.

Astrid Donnellan is a long time dial restorer; she is listed in the mart. I suggest contacting her regarding restoration and retouching, but you have to be careful how much touch is done.

Andy
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry

Larry

Registered User
Jul 22, 2002
552
13
18
Maryland
Country
Region
the dial does have some issues, but not enough (at least not yet) to justify a re-do.

the banjo clocks in my collection that have had dial re-dos look good... but new. they don't have the glow of age the untouched ones do.

i still think your bigger issue is the hands, but everything else looks pretty good.... even the current dial.

your call, though...
Bruce,
I agree with you regarding re-done dials and the gracefully aged dials. That thought might be why I’m dragging my feet on the dial re-do! Lol
Thanks,
For the advice
Larry
 

Forum statistics

Threads
177,646
Messages
1,556,970
Members
53,635
Latest member
GallDG
Encyclopedia Pages
909
Total wiki contributions
3,058
Last edit
Watch Inspectors by Kent