Help NOOB: Picked up a great deal from online yard sale, need help ID and repair

hieppo

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Feb 21, 2021
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I recenly picked up something similar to this Clock with cuckoo and MB and moving birds

1614015176880.png

I am not sure if my clock is original or was modified. I do notice the same LADOR, Switzerland yellow sticker on the back. However, I do not see the night off switch at the side. It does not have a night off switch. The other thing I notice is the GERMANY print on the dial face is not on my clock's face. Everything else looks identical.

That is the ID part.

There is an issue with my clock, the music box plays very fast and gets activated about 4-5 minutes before the hour. The wire/needle that blocks the fan and supposedly hold from playing the music until the cuckoo finish clucking at the hour doesn't do the job of pausing the play. It plays as soon as the locking lever is lifted out of the hole and continue to play without stopping until the MB chain is unwound since cuckoo has not started. The wire that blocks the fan does stop the fan from spinning but does not stop the music from playing. I was only able to stop the music if I grab the fan and push up (a bit of pressure).

Other than that if I activate the cuckoo and it finish cuckooing, the music does stop (locking lever falls back into the hole).

Is this fixable with current parts? If new parts is need what would I need. The music sounds good but it is fast. I read that I need a governor. How can I identify which governor I need for my particular music box (that will fit and will work correctly).

Thank you for looking and helping.
 
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Dick Feldman

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Generally, cuckoo clocks have many similarities and many things different. The most common, modern clocks have time movements made in Germany. Those are available and pretty much standardized. Most music movements are made in Switzerland. Unfortunately that is a complication as many of the music movements and parts are no longer available. That makes some music movements unserviceable.
The following link is from this board and explains the operation of the ceiling mounted music movement. The basics apply to all music movements, regardless to where they are mounted. https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/THE-CUCKOO-MUSIC-BOX
There is also a section at the top of the opening page of this board giving suppliers, etc. It might be of help to check that out.
One fairly standard fact is that seldom are used working clocks of any sort offered for sale. People just do not part with working clocks. Another consideration is that many used clocks offered for sale are there because an inexperienced clock mechanic has attempted a repair and failed.
There are lots of books on clock repair and some specifically on cuckoo clocks.
Cuckoo clocks are not necessarily good clocks to start on. There is a lot of "stuff" going on in those little houses.
Sometimes if one has only one clock to repair, it is advantageous to take it to a qualified clock repair person. Clock repair has a long learning curve and it is hard to justify that for one clock.
Best of luck with your clock and welcome to the message board.

Dick
 
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hieppo

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I understand this is a complex subject but I am willing to learn. What I like to understand is how the warning wire which is blocking (in the way of the fan) the fan from spinning does not stop the music from playing. And that only a slight force upward motion of the fan blade will stop the music. Is there some sort of slippage in one of the gear of the fan governor that stripped or not grabbing on to something and maybe can be glued back in?
 

Dick Feldman

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There seems to be a disconnect between the entire governor assembly and the music drum/comb.
There probably is nothing missing. You probably are the victim of a previous repair attempt.
Have you reviewed the link about the operation of the music movement?
Most often music movement failures are due to friction, due to wear due to long use.
If someone has tried to "adjust" to remedy a wear problem, you have two problems which are more than twice as difficult to solve than one.
That is not a good clock to learn on and it is difficult or impossible to help here without detailed pictures/and videos of the problem area.
D
 

Willie X

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Music box cuckoos are best avoided. These are usually give away items and difficult to repair for an acceptable price. Very few parts are now available and you can spend a lot of time to find the problem with no recourse. Also, any cuckoo is more or less unique. About the only way to see two identical cuckoos will be to order a pair from the same dealer. :) Willie X
 
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JimmyOz

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Your issue sounds like the fan arbour is not engaging the wheel (it looks like a circular saw), these parts do not have adjustment, therefore the wheel maybe striped?
 

hieppo

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Slight stopping of the fan from the warning wire does not stop the music from being played. I practically have to to grab the fan with an upward motion to stop the music from playing.
From the fact the music is playing at 3x the speed of what it should be playing at, would that not provide any indication on what is wrong with the governor?
I mean this clock is still a great deal, everything else works perfectly. I just tie the MB chains together and have none of that 3x speed music.
 

JimmyOz

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Slight stopping of the fan from the warning wire does not stop the music from being played. I practically have to to grab the fan with an upward motion to stop the music from playing.
From the fact the music is playing at 3x the speed of what it should be playing at, would that not provide any indication on what is wrong with the governor?
The fan on the music box, controls the speed, if the music is still playing when you stop the fan ... it is not engaging the fan at all... that seems the problem to me.
 

hieppo

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The fan on the music box, controls the speed, if the music is still playing when you stop the fan ... it is not engaging the fan at all... that seems the problem to me.
My suspicion is the governor unit which has the fan an all the worm gears. My other question is how and where would I purchase a replacement governor? I saw some posting on about governors available at timesavers.com but are they generic unit that would easily bolt in place as long as I order the correct number of teeth? Am I correct to assume this?
 

Willie X

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They aren't exactly generic. They are products that are being produced at this time, not OEM replacements, unless you have a brand new clock. The platform has to be the correct size, the screw holes in the mounting plate usually have to be modified and the drive pinion must have the correct number of teeth, usually somewhere between 8 and 14. And today's selection is very small but better than a few years ago. Willie X
 

shutterbug

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Also, there should be a plastic shroud (tubing) on the stop mechanism, and a spring on the stop lever that pulls it out of the hole and helps keep it aligned with the hole for the stop. (Music box). The tubing is adjustable so you can alter the stop point.

NOTE: I also removed your link from the first post. We are not allowed to link to active sales.
 

hieppo

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Also, there should be a plastic shroud (tubing) on the stop mechanism, and a spring on the stop lever that pulls it out of the hole and helps keep it aligned with the hole for the stop. (Music box). The tubing is adjustable so you can alter the stop point.

NOTE: I also removed your link from the first post. We are not allowed to link to active sales.
This tubing does it have any impact on the speed of the music play?

Thank you for reminding me about the links. I never thought that link was an active sales. I just wanted the information. I will keep it in mind of future posts.

I like to thank everyone's contributions, it really helps.
 

shutterbug

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No, the tubing just stops the music movement. The speed depends on the fan being in good shape and the weight that's on the music. If you have different size weights, the smallest probably should be on the music.
 

hieppo

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It is probably sacrilege but since parts are hard to come by for these antique clock, why not go the MIC route. They are much much cheaper and parts are abundance. Probably a thread already discussing this to death.
 

shutterbug

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What is MIC?
 

hieppo

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What is MIC?
Alibaba route. Made In China. I saw music box for $30. I assume there will be some work to get it working with a specific clock. Far cheaper than a $30 governor only and you still need to modify to fit the specific clock. You get a new comb and music drum. Anyway, just a thought if keeping it close to original is not the highest priority.
 

shutterbug

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Never heard of them, but a google search turns them up. Interesting prices for sure!
 

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Rockford's early high grade movements by Greg Frauenhoff