No Pendulum

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
I think I have all the parts fitted together (between the plates anyway). One part I am missing for this wood movement from a tall case clock is the pendulum. I have searched the web and looked at many images and just cant see what one should look like. I plan on fabricating.

I was told to just get a coat hanger and a one ounce bob. What about a suspension spring?

If you can, please show me where I am going on this project. Always thankful for wise counsel.

20220208_132510.jpg Movement Front.jpg Movement Back.jpg
 

FDelGreco

Moore NWCM Award
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2000
2,590
293
63
Novelty, OH
Country
Region
Frank:

I wouldn't use a coat hanger as you need to thread at least one end for the rating nut -- possibly both ends, depending upon how the suspension spring is attached. So you need a standard size (diameter) rod to thread -- for probably #6-32 or #8-32 thread size.

Hope this helps.

Frank
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,964
1,546
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
Wood works clocks use a cast iron bob that is quite heavy. It uses a threaded rod as seen in shelf clocks that stays with the bob. A piece of mild steel was used for a rod and the suspension spring was hammered on the end by placing it on an anvil and hammering it flat and thin. Form a hook on the other end.

20220209_111529.jpg 20220215_104138.jpg 20220215_104114.jpg 20220215_103925.jpg 20220215_103921.jpg 20220215_103932.jpg
 
Last edited:

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
Dick, The crutch assembly was not installed when I took these images. I have it.

Jim, Thank you for the images of the pendulum bobs. I have been told that the bob should weight almost nothing. I will look for one that is heavier and has a ratting nut etc.. In your images they appear to be about 2 1/2" or twenty dollars in diameter. More or less than 3 ounces?

Jim and Frank, As for the suspension spring: Because I don't know the length of the pendulum rod, I thought I might purchase a suspension spring (for example Timesavers' #12291) that had a threaded block on one end. Then as suggested, thread one end of a rod and install it before working out the rod length. Am I headed in the right direction?

Once I have an appropriate pendulum bob, I can determine if a hook or threading is needed on the lower end.

Crutch Assembly.jpg
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,964
1,546
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
These wooden works clocks have a "seconds beating pendulum" 99.95% of the time. There are few exceptions. The diameter of the rod is usually about 1/8" or slightly under, and the pendulum bobs are quite heavy. My postal scale has a dead battery or I would be happy to weigh a few of them for you. At one time both Merritts and Timesavers sold accurate and proper replacements for the 30 hr ww tall case clocks. I don't know about today. The hammered out rod end suspension spring is proper for these, the screw on springs are not. And in my experience, the bobs hang on a hook on the lower portion of the rod, also about 99.95% of the time. The rod/spring/hook and bob I show above are all correct and most likely original to the clock and movement it came with. You can see the file marks and the like on the hammered out spring section. At one time George Bruno and later Don Bruno sold reproductions of these, but George has passed and Don has retired so I don't have any place to point you for proper replacement parts.
 

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
Now this might be a ... question.

How do I know if this movement is a 30 hour or an eight day?

I think if I was certain, I could help folks giving answers to my questions. I heard again that the pendulum bob is minimal and the rod has no spring (hooks on both ends, hooked into a loop at the top). Maybe the difference in the answers is the difference in the movements (30 hours verses eight day)? Maybe it is as simple as tall clock verses shelf clock.

While learning I look to be as clear as possible. I am always thankful for wise counsel.
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,964
1,546
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
Now this might be a ... question.

How do I know if this movement is a 30 hour or an eight day?

I think if I was certain, I could help folks giving answers to my questions. I heard again that the pendulum bob is minimal and the rod has no spring (hooks on both ends, hooked into a loop at the top). Maybe the difference in the answers is the difference in the movements (30 hours verses eight day)? Maybe it is as simple as tall clock verses shelf clock.

While learning I look to be as clear as possible. I am always thankful for wise counsel.
You might find correct answers to your questions in Philip Morris's book on American Woodworks Tallclocks, or you might consider joining the COG Counters FaceBook group, Cog Counters: Chapter #194 of the NAWCC or join the COG Counters NAWCC Chapter 194. You can find examples of 8 day as well as many 30-hr woodwork in some fair detail in Philips book. The COG Counters Journal(s) consist today of over 3000 pages about WW clocks, all compiled since 1974.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tbonjour and Dick C

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
Thanks Frank, I did a search of this forum and found that 30 hour vs. eight days is a familiar question. What I learned was that 30 hour movements have three gears and eight day movements have four. The movement I am working on has the two gears and the escape wheel. THREE. I did not count the drive wheel as a gear. Therefore, I suppose this movement is a 30 hour movement.

Thanks Jim, I have requested to be allow to join the private group at Chapter 194.
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,964
1,546
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
Frank, I didn't recognize your name on your request for membership on the COG site Got it now, slow learner. You are now a member, enjoy....
 

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
Yesterday I visited a long time clock man in Lawrenceburg. He had several pendulum bobs that were from tall case wooden works clocks. I believe I have the right bob now. Next I will work on the pendulum rod.

Thanks Jim for the images.

I will cruse by the material supplier in a quest for the right material. I am thinking I will pound one end into a "spring". Can someone give me a approximate length? Wouldn't want to come up short after pounding one end.
 

Dick C

NAWCC Member
Oct 14, 2009
2,163
165
63
Country
Perhaps it might work that you get an extra long rod, flatten the top end, attach the bob with tape to somewhere along the lower end and see what happens. You can always cut the bottom shorter and try again.

Another thing to look for in your case is to see if there was any scraping on the backboard or the door area which might give you an idea as to the location of the bob.

Enjoy
 

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
So today I am shopping for the rod to make the pendulum rod. I know I will need to hammer/flatten one end to make the spring. Thanks Jim for the images. I know what the end product should look like.

What is the best material? What is the diameter?

The process will be new to me. I am thankful for any wise counsel.
 

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,964
1,546
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
So today I am shopping for the rod to make the pendulum rod. I know I will need to hammer/flatten one end to make the spring. Thanks Jim for the images. I know what the end product should look like.

What is the best material? What is the diameter?

The process will be new to me. I am thankful for any wise counsel.
I use mild steel rod about .110-.125" in diameter. I heat the end up to red and quickly hammer it on an anvil flat. It cools quickly, I flattened some rod last week for a project and it took about 4 or 5 trips back to the torch to keep it soft to make it easy to hammer. I suspect back in the day they may have rolled the wire end as that is easier/quicker/and easier to repeat time after time. But I don't have a rolling mill, so.....It needs to be thinned to about .005". Takes a bit of piddling about so to speak......

20211018_103505.jpg 20211018_103603.jpg 20211018_103613.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: tbonjour

Jim DuBois

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2008
3,964
1,546
113
Magnolia, TX
Country
Region
a bit of accidental research of my files suggests your clock movement to have been made by Hopkins and Lewis. Here is another example of their work in a clock with a signed dial. The large cutouts in the movement plates are the single largest clue if you will.

Hopkins & Lewis 13.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: tbonjour

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
While working to get my movement reliable, I have learned that too much end shake can be as much of a problem as too little.
 

Peter A. Nunes

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Mar 3, 2006
1,689
49
48
Rhode Island
www.cogcounters.org
Country
Region
While working to get my movement reliable, I have learned that too much end shake can be as much of a problem as too little.

You might take a moment to call Don Bruno. While it is true that he has more or less retired, he does have parts still available for sale, including appropriate pendulum rods. Correct, all cast iron pendulum bobs show up fairly frequently at Marts and on eBay. As Jim mentioned, they are quite heavy, about 1 pound, and generally 3"-3 1/8" in diameter.
 

f.webster

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2009
984
104
43
Louisville, KY
Country
Region
I located a pendulum bob that is according to the suggested size and weight. Then after pounding the end of a 1/8" rolled steel rod to form a spring, I determined the appropriate length using a "pendulum hook". That tool is fabricated by cutting a 1 1/2" length of alarm clock spring, punching holes in each end, and making a hook. Bow the spring onto the rod. It can be easily adjusted up and down the rod by pinching the curve. I use this whenever I am determining approximate location of a pendulum.

Pendulum Hook.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
177,503
Messages
1,555,587
Members
53,592
Latest member
AndyB821
Encyclopedia Pages
909
Total wiki contributions
3,053
Last edit
Ptolemy's Course of the Planets displayed by CLockwork by Tom McIntyre